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Jesus - a sinner?

croak

Trickster
We don't believe in original sin. I mean, if a baby, only a few minutes old, dies for some reason, he is not going straight to Hell. Otherwise, we'd be hearing a lot of crying. ;)
 

Iacobus

New Member
If a child dies before being cleaned from original sin that doesn't mean he is damned. It was of no falut of the child that he was fallen and we must rely on the mercy of God to save his soul.
 

Pah

Uber all member
Iacobus said:
If a child dies before being cleaned from original sin that doesn't mean he is damned. It was of no falut of the child that he was fallen and we must rely on the mercy of God to save his soul.

I'm sorry - that doesn't seem to answer the apparent inconsistancy with a Christ being human and humans born in sin.

-pah-
 

chuck010342

Active Member
Jesus is an exepction to the general rule. Jesus is called the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus is also the Son of God so I think he is has exempt status :)
 

Pah

Uber all member
chuck010342 said:
Jesus is an exepction to the general rule. Jesus is called the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus is also the Son of God so I think he is has exempt status :)

Please tell where in scriputure we might find this exception.

It is really quite simple - if Jesus has divine properties, he can not be 100% human.

-pah-
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
pahQuote: (Originally Posted by chuck010342)
Jesus is an exepction to the general rule. Jesus is called the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus is also the Son of God so I think he is has exempt status :)



pah said:

Please tell where in scriputure we might find this exception.

It is really quite simple - if Jesus has divine properties, he can not be 100% human.

-pah-
pah is right, Yeshua was not God in any form, only having the untainted blood of God. The scripture saying Jesus is the second Adam is a gross mis-translation, in Hebrew the word would have been like "Firster" meaning a superior first Man Adam/sinlessAdam.

As to the subject of "Original Sin". After Adam and Eve sinned God did not cleanse them because they did not repent, there-by carried the sin nature and passed it on to their offspring. Having Pure Blood like the original Adam, being tempted to sin and not sinning makes Yeshua the first sinless Adam, there-by providing the pure blood sacrifice to atone for all sin. :162:
 

croak

Trickster
Well, we believe Allah forgave Adam and Eve. Do Christians believe that? If you do, then Original Sin is wrong.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
RearingArabian said:
Well, we believe Allah forgave Adam and Eve. Do Christians believe that? If you do, then Original Sin is wrong.
Rearing Arabian; I am not Christian! (Read Tanach commentary on Genesis 3:9)
Oh Yes! God forgave Adam and Eve, but it was long after they were ejected from Eden.
They learned repentance from Cain, only when Cain repented and was saved from sure death, did Adam seek to resolve his transgression.
The yetzer harah/evil inclination, had already been passed on in their genes.:)
 

Lintu

Active Member
I was under the impression that some believe Mary was born without original sin, and therefore, Jesus was born without it, too.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Lintu said:
I was under the impression that some believe Mary was born without original sin, and therefore, Jesus was born without it, too.
Where did you get such an impression? Not in any Bible reading! Anywhere!

Mothers blood and a babies blood never co-mingle. Yeshua did have Perfect Blood, the "Firster" Adam. There was no word to say that in Greek, so we have Second Adam.
Yeshua is the Superior First Adam. Adam created perfect(without sin).;)
 

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
Jesus did say that we all sin. Well, we do. Jesus said "We all", so that means basically that he was one too.

PS: Sin is inevitable.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Ro 3:23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
This was Paul, not Yeshua! Yeshua was sinless or you are dead in your sins!
 

Lintu

Active Member
Ronald said:
Where did you get such an impression? Not in any Bible reading! Anywhere!

Mothers blood and a babies blood never co-mingle. Yeshua did have Perfect Blood, the "Firster" Adam. There was no word to say that in Greek, so we have Second Adam.
Yeshua is the Superior First Adam. Adam created perfect(without sin).;)

I got that impression from listening to other people--clearly not supposed to be authoritative. (I said: some people believe) ;)

I don't know where that came from, either. Mary's immaculate conception, that is.
 

booboo

New Member
Hello,

Lintu is right. The Catholics do believe in the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Mother. This was one of the main reasons for the unfortunate schism between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church. :(

If God so willed, all the people will be united in one faith, but if there was only one faith, then who will seek the Truth? If no one will seek the Truth and God is the Truth, then it defeats the whole purpose of creation.

"7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened." (Gospel According to St. Matthew 7:7-8)

booboo
 

croak

Trickster
SoulTYPE01 said:
Jesus did say that we all sin. Well, we do. Jesus said "We all", so that means basically that he was one too.

PS: Sin is inevitable.
I agree. Everyone sins, except Allah. However, the Prophets were very lucky in being able not to sin a lot. I wish I could be like them.


P.S. :162:This is not what an angel looks like. :) Isn't it cool that you can resize them? :)
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
If a child dies before being cleaned from original sin that doesn't mean he is damned.
I know it`s OT but your Bible directly contradicts this statement.

The NT makes very clear that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ.
 

Ronald

Well-Known Member
Quote: (Originally Posted by pah)

Please tell where in scriputure we might find this exception.

It is really quite simple - if Jesus has divine properties, he can not be 100% human.

-pah-


You are quite right, pah, He could be one or the other, but not both!
He was born of a woman, flesh and bone, He had perfect blood of His Father God!
He never tainted the Fathers holy blood by not succumbing to temptation and sinning.
Yeshua was 100% man, died as a man was raised by His Father from the dead and was placed at the Right Hand of God. If God wants to bestow divinity on Him, He is able to do so.
The Son of God, our Savior, raised by the Father, seated by God at His right-hand, is worthy of praise.
Php 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 
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