Why do babies cry?

Kemosloby · Nov 18, 2016

Brickjectivity said:
You can learn about God from nature, but you can't produce a proof that God exists from nature.

That's like claiming you can make cheese from jello. That isn't how faith occurs. I can't believe you are saying that. Imagine a sad, metalic, clanging, slumping suit of armor trying to be a knight with nobody inside of it. That is faith created through proofs.

People say you can learn about God from nature, but I think they'd just rather go hiking than to church or read the bible. What can you learn about God from nature? Because if anything is learning about cheese from Jello, it's learning about a spiritual God from a material world. But that the bible is facts not fiction leads to faith.

Brickjectivity · Nov 18, 2016

Kemosloby said:
People say you can learn about God from nature, but I think they'd just rather go hiking than to church or read the bible. What can you learn about God from nature? Because if anything is learning about cheese from Jello, it's learning about a spiritual God from a material world. But that the bible is facts not fiction leads to faith.

If somebody wants to go hiking by themselves once in a while that's one thing, but if they just won't deal with other people then they are in my opinion not in fellowship. Its a kind of division, one of many kinds.

Kemosloby · Nov 18, 2016

Brickjectivity said:
If somebody wants to go hiking by themselves once in a while that's one thing, but if they just won't deal with other people then they are in my opinion not in fellowship. Its a kind of division, one of many kinds.

Division in and of itself is not wrong. "God's gonna separate the wheat from the tares, one of these days"

Deeje · Nov 19, 2016

PopeADope said:
Why are they born corrupted to sin? Because God wanted them to be born corrupted.

He never wanted that. In fact he did all in his power to prevent a knowledge of evil from ever contaminating his human creation....even making it a capital offense to unleash this knowledge. But we are created with free will, so he could not prevent them from exercising it. Free will had to be free. God didn't create us to be robots.

They did nothing to deserve it.

Our first parents did do something to deserve it...it was their children who didn't, inheriting a defect in their physical being that was passed on to all their descendants.

God is responsible for the evil and original sin. He created the tree to tempt Eve knowing she would fall. He let the serpent into the garden knowing in advance what would happen.

You don't know much about the Bible then do you?

Otherwise you would know that God did not set anyone up to fail.
Evil exists as an equal opposite of good, like everything else has an equal opposite. You must have learned that in your High School science class? God tried to prevent them gaining that knowledge, knowing how it would affect them.

Satan was in the garden as a "covering cherub" according to Ezekiel. This is a guardian position and as a free willed being, he also abused the responsibility that was given him, coveting the worship that God was going to receive from these lower creatures. He wanted to be a god and this was the way to fulfill his desire, to take worshippers away from the true God.

We wouldn't have atheists if God would stop hiding himself and simply tell people the truth.

God has told the truth in his Word, but the churches have not passed on that knowledge....it is they who have hidden God and fashioned a religious system that only enriched themselves. They have no answers to life's important questions, yet God' purpose is stated clearly in the Bible.

So, obviously God wants there to be Atheists. God wants the Devil and the antichrist to do all that they do. God could restrain the Devil but he prefers that Satan deceive and torment.

Once the knowledge of evil was out there, there was no sending it back. Along with the knowledge, came evil acts, and within one generation a murderer was produced. In order to show humankind, as well as his angelic sons the folly of disobedience, God allowed his free willed creatures to test drive this knowledge so as to prove to themselves that they could not have happy and successful lives without him. He had tried to keep it from them, but they wanted to try it for themselves.
Restraining the devil and men of evil would not allow the gravity of the situation to be fully comprehended.

He cursed us all with original sin. What did babies do to deserve that?

No one deserves evil, which is why God placed it behind a penalty so severe that he hoped no one would dare to unleash it.

There is no 'heaven or hell' scenario in the Bible...that is part of the crock of lies offered by the churches. There is just life or death, nothing more sinister than that. The dead sleep peacefully, and the time will come when God promises to resurrect them by means of his son. (John 5:28, 29) Both the "righteous and unrighteous" dead will have a chance to get to know God and to bring their lives into harmony with his will.....especially the babies.

I'm a firm believer in God, just looking around at the agony, evil, and confusion everywhere and wondering why is God so cruel?

The answers are all there in the Bible if you just look for yourself and stop listening to the "weeds" of fake Christianity that Jesus warned about.

The present might be tough....but the future is going to be wonderful for those who didn't sell out to the devil's lies.

Spiderman · Nov 19, 2016

Deeje said:
He never wanted that. In fact he did all in his power to prevent a knowledge of evil from ever contaminating his human creation

He didn't do everything in his power. He could have restrained the Devil from entering the garden in the first place or not left Adam and Eve to be such stupid creatures as to listen to a talking snake.

Free will had to be free. God didn't create us to be robots.

Enlightening all people would not be a violation of free-will. My understanding is that you are a Jehovah's Witness. If that is the true faith, why on earth does God give the grace of understanding the truth to so few people.

I and many others who don't belong to your system of belief have been praying for the grace of understanding and for God's will to be done in our lives (incessantly). We're simply making the best with what limited understanding God has given us.

Truly that is what I want from God more than anything is simply his will to be done, understanding of the truth, and understanding of what I'm suppose to say and do in order to fulfill his will and plan. Easy is such a grace for God to grant, yet he refuses to

Our first parents did do something to deserve it...it was their children who didn't

Exactly, the children don't deserve to be born defective and then be punished for it. What Adam and Eve did was stupid, but it is nothing people should still have to suffer for.

That is absolutely God's fault that people are born children of wrath and cursed for their parent's sins. God doesn't have to curse anyone. Neither does he have to leave them spiritually blind. He isn't bound by any laws that force him to curse people.

You don't know much about the Bible then do you?

I have read it from genesis through revelation and am deeply frustrated with how many verses say the opposite of what other verses say. Much of the Bible is symbolic, Hyperbole, parable, allegory, and poetry, yet people take it literally.

I see chronic battle amongst Theologians studying God's word. They dedicate their life to the study of his word and claim to have the Holy-spirit, yet wind up at opposite conclusions of interpretation, and each have Scripture verses that state the opposite to defend the interpretation that is opposite of another Theologian's understanding.

For example, a person can Biblically defend a premise that God is angry, jealous, and vengeful. A person can also defend the premise that God is love, kindness, and merciful. Who is right Biblically? They both are.
GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god.
EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire.
EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god.
LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing.
NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce.
2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it."
EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him."
2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love.
GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

A person can both argue that God hates graven images and that God channels his grace through graven images and is quite fond of them, because God healed the Israelite's through a bronze serpent and met with Moses and spoke to the Israelite's through two golden Cherubs.

God literally often commands people to do the opposite of what he formerly commanded, such as telling people to kill after he ordered them not to kill, telling them to make images after forbidding it... Jesus often preached against what was taught in the old Testament and lost many followers for it . He commanded people to eat his flesh and drink his blood when drinking blood was forbidden.

Teaching people to love their enemies and turn the other cheek was the opposite of what God formerly taught.

There are many other contradictions. My point being, I've read the Bible and I'm frustrated with it. It often has two verses that say the opposite and lead people to opposite conclusions, divisions, and sometimes violence and war (See the thirty years war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War. 8 million casualties over Christians disagreeing about the interpretation of a sacred text that is full of contradictions and never was to be interpreted literally).

Evil exists as an equal opposite of good, like everything else has an equal opposite. You must have learned that in your High School science class?
Satan was in the garden as a "covering cherub" according to Ezekiel.

God knew what would become of Satan when he created him. Obviously Satan was created different than the loyal angels because he had the inclination towards pride and rebellion. The other Angels that didn't fall never had that power.

If God wants those evil powers to exist and have power, which he clearly does, it is clearly because He wants them to deceive and torment the world for now. If God was sick of it, he would restrain them or kick them out of earth.

The Devil can only be the god of this world if God wills him to be god of this world.

God clearly wants there to be confusion or he would give enlightenment and understanding to all who seek it. He also obviously gives the ability to interpret Scripture to a select few people. If most people had the ability to interpret Scripture, there would be less division.

Since most people don't have the ability to interpret Scripture, it can be hazardous for them to read it.

God has told the truth in his Word, but the churches have not passed on that knowledge....it is they who have hidden God and fashioned a religious system that only enriched themselves.

The Churches are passing on the knowledge as they understand it, and they are filled with errors because of God's refusal to give them understanding.

God has hidden himself. No Church can hide him. I'm waiting patiently for him to enlighten me. As of now, I see Scripture as poetry, parable, codes, hyperbole, and allegory not meant to be taken literally that has lost some of it's meaning through translation and coming from an ancient culture very difficult for modern foreign culture to understand.

The answers are all there in the Bible if you just look for yourself and stop listening to the "weeds" of fake Christianity

So, if two branches of Christianity claim to be true and both have Scripture to support their basis, where do we turn? You say the Bible, but if both arguments have verses of Scripture that state the opposite of other Scriptures, and both have a Scriptural basis, then where do we turn?

Jehovah's witnesses are a relatively small branch of Christianity and didn't exist until the late 1870s. Why did God wait so long after the death of Christ to found the "True" Church?

To say it is the true Faith is to say the many centuries of Christians before them got it all wrong. If God let more than 19 generations of Christians go astray without a true Church on the face of the earth, how is such a God a trustworthy guide or Shepherd?

Deeje · Nov 19, 2016

Part 1

PopeADope said:
He didn't do everything in his power. He could have restrained the Devil from entering the garden in the first place or not left Adam and Eve to be such stupid creatures as to listen to a talking snake.

Do you value free will? God does, but we have to learn to use it in wisdom. He had to allow free will to be exercised so that full consequences could be experienced. If God had stepped in, how could humans have learned the full impact of the lesson? God's way is the only way that brings benefits.

Enlightening all people would not be a violation of free-will. My understanding is that you are a Jehovah's Witness. If that is the true faith, why on earth does God give the grace of understanding the truth to so few people.

It was foretold that only a "few" would find the cramped, narrow road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) Most would choose the easy road, not the hard one.

I and many others who don't belong to your system of belief have been praying for the grace of understanding and for God's will to be done in our lives (incessantly). We're simply making the best with what limited understanding God has given us.

What is the reason for your limited understanding? God has not withheld understanding from us at all....it continues to flow, like the dawn breaking and light increasing. (Proverbs 4:18)

Truly that is what I want from God more than anything is simply his will to be done, understanding of the truth, and understanding of what I'm suppose to say and do in order to fulfill his will and plan. Easy is such a grace for God to grant, yet he refuses to

If you cling to a religious system that refuses to teach his truth, he will reveal nothing to you.
If you genuinely want the truth, then search for it with an open heart and mind....but don't look in the obvious places, because God is not there...and never has been.

Exactly, the children don't deserve to be born defective and then be punished for it. What Adam and Eve did was stupid, but it is nothing people should still have to suffer for.

Once a knowledge of evil was in the world, there was no sending it back....you cannot "unlearn" something anymore than you can "unsee" something. Everything in the human brain is on record...there is no erase button.
God had to allow humankind to experience what they chose so that in times to come, it will serve as a precedent should humans or angels ever decide to challenge God's sovereignty again. It is for the benefit of all God's future plans for the earth and indeed the universe to allow this to play out to its finish.....it will never be able to happen again. God will then undo all the bad consequences. (Isaiah 65:17)

That is absolutely God's fault that people are born children of wrath and cursed for their parent's sins. God doesn't have to curse anyone. Neither does he have to leave them spiritually blind. He isn't bound by any laws that force him to curse people.

God has cursed no one....but neither has he forced people to serve him. We have to come to him out of a humble heart and offer ourselves to him willingly. We cannot bring beliefs with us that offend him....we have to leave it all at the door when we come into his tent as an invited guest. (Psalm 15) Are you prepared to do that?

I have read it from genesis through revelation and am deeply frustrated with how many verses say the opposite of what other verses say.

Looking at scripture through the lens of Catholicism will distort the picture and give you many contradictions. God's word has NO contradictions.

Much of the Bible is symbolic, Hyperbole, parable, allegory, and poetry, yet people take it literally.

A thorough study of the scriptures will help you discern which is which. It all fits perfectly.

I see chronic battle amongst Theologians studying God's word. They dedicate their life to the study of his word and claim to have the Holy-spirit, yet wind up at opposite conclusions of interpretation, and each have Scripture verses that state the opposite to defend the interpretation that is opposite of another Theologian's understanding.

If you notice in the gospels Jesus did not choose any "theologians" to be his apostles....do you know why?

A person can both argue that God hates graven images and that God channels his grace through graven images and is quite fond of them, because God healed the Israelite's through a bronze serpent and met with Moses and spoke to the Israelite's through two golden Cherubs.

You can think this way unless you understand a few more details instead of just isolated verses. The Bible paints a big picture...but some stare at what appears to be a few dead pixels and assumes that the whole picture is wrong. You just need more detail to bring the dead pixels to life.

God forbade the Israelites to make any images to use in their worship at all. (Exodus 20:3) The copper serpent was used to save their lives after an incident that caused God to be very angry with them. It was made at God's command, not at the whim of the people.

The Israelites kept the copper serpent and later improperly began to worship it, making sacrificial smoke to it. Hence, as part of his religious reforms, Judean King Hezekiah (745-717 B.C.E.) had the more than 700-year-old copper serpent crushed to pieces because the people had made an idol of it. (2 Kings 18:4)

As for the golden cherubs, these were contained in the "Most Holy" compartment of the temple and were only seen by the High Priest when he entered once a year with the sacrificial blood. Both of these representations were made at God's command, but as was seen with the golden calf, man was not free to make his own images and use it in worship.

God literally often commands people to do the opposite of what he formerly commanded, such as telling people to kill after he ordered them not to kill, telling them to make images after forbidding it... Jesus often preached against what was taught in the old Testament and lost many followers for it . He commanded people to eat his flesh and drink his blood when drinking blood was forbidden.

People stumbled over his words because they took them literally. Jesus disciples waited for an explanation.
His words were figurative. (John 6:66-68)

Deeje · Nov 19, 2016

Part 2

PopeADope said:
Teaching people to love their enemies and turn the other cheek was the opposite of what God formerly taught.

There are many other contradictions. My point being, I've read the Bible and I'm frustrated with it. It often has two verses that say the opposite and lead people to opposite conclusions, divisions, and sometimes violence and war (See the thirty years war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War. 8 million casualties over Christians disagreeing about the interpretation of a sacred text that is full of contradictions and never was to be interpreted literally).

OMG!

....this is so far from the truth! There are no commands of God that change....God does not change and neither do his standards.

In Israel's law it stated "thou shalt not kill" but that was forbidding unlawful murder. The death penalty was also part of the law, so the "killing" was the difference between a person "unlawfully" taking someone's life and "lawfully" becoming God's executioner. I hope you can see the difference.

Violence and war are part of Christendom's history, but these were never sanctioned by Jesus Christ. True Christians do not take up weapons against anyone for any reason. For a Christian, this was the recommendation...."Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Romans 12:17-21)

You can "love your enemy" by not harming him, even when he wants to harm you. Conquering evil with good is not easy but it is what separates true Christians from the "weeds".

God knew what would become of Satan when he created him. Obviously Satan was created different than the loyal angels because he had the inclination towards pride and rebellion. The other Angels that didn't fall never had that power.

If you read the scriptures, you would know that many angels followed satan into rebellion. Angels and humans had to co-exist, so they had to learn to live harmoniously. The first rebel was a spirit who wanted worship from the only creatures who could give it to him. If God had not allowed his entire creation to learn these valuable lessons, then what was to prevent another satan starting up again with disastrous consequences all over again? Better to allow the whole scenario to play out, so that the lessons benefited every creature for all time to come.

If God wants those evil powers to exist and have power, which he clearly does, it is clearly because He wants them to deceive and torment the world for now. If God was sick of it, he would restrain them or kick them out of earth.

The Devil can only be the god of this world if God wills him to be god of this world.

Satan admitted that world rulership had been handed over to him. God did that because the first humans had chosen satan to be their god and ruler, so it was going to be a valuable life lesson to see where satan's rulership would take us.

And again, if you read the scriptures you will see what the results will be.....all will return to the perfection that was once enjoyed in Eden but lost by our first parents. Its a hard lesson, but the results will benefit everyone for all eternity to come.

God clearly wants there to be confusion or he would give enlightenment and understanding to all who seek it. He also obviously gives the ability to interpret Scripture to a select few people. If most people had the ability to interpret Scripture, there would be less division.

Since most people don't have the ability to interpret Scripture, it can be hazardous for them to read it.

The devil is the one who creates confusion, not God. The Bible reveals all but not to those who want to put their own meaning into it or to use it as an excuse to aggrandize themselves. If you compare the first Christians to the ones heading the Catholic Church in the early centuries, do you see a large contrast? There was first of all no earthly priesthood....no Pope...no ornate or elaborate buildings or temples....no images....no distinctive clothing for the clergy....not liturgy....no holy water....no rituals...no infant baptism...no doctrines of the trinity, immortality of the soul or hellfire. In fact there is basically no similarity at all. The church made itself custodians of the word of God and put to death anyone who dared to possess a copy. They burned at the stake anyone who dared to question Catholic teaching.....Does that sound "Christian" to you?

The Churches are passing on the knowledge as they understand it, and they are filled with errors because of God's refusal to give them understanding.

God has hidden himself. No Church can hide him.

The Church can't hide him because he has never entered her doors. When the judgment comes, Jesus will reject the "many" who claim him as their "Lord" because he says he NEVER knew them. (Matthew 7:21-23)

I'm waiting patiently for him to enlighten me. As of now, I see Scripture as poetry, parable, codes, hyperbole, and allegory not meant to be taken literally that has lost some of it's meaning through translation and coming from an ancient culture very difficult for modern foreign culture to understand.

He will enlighten anyone who comes to him, humbly accepting his terms. Those who approach God with a head and a heart full of false ideas and who refuse to dispense with them, will never get a foot in the door of his kingdom.

So, if two branches of Christianity claim to be true and both have Scripture to support their basis, where do we turn? You say the Bible, but if both arguments have verses of Scripture that state the opposite of other Scriptures, and both have a Scriptural basis, then where do we turn?

You go where your heart directs you.....God will lead all sincere ones to his truth, but you have to 'keep seeking, keep knocking, keep searching'....God will reward your efforts.

Jehovah's witnesses are a relatively small branch of Christianity and didn't exist until the late 1870s.

Click to expand...

Why did God wait so long after the death of Christ to found the "True" Church?

It was foretold by the prophet Daniel that God would cleanse and refine a people in "the time of the end". He would supply much knowledge and understanding at this time. (Daniel 12:4, 9, 10)
He will separate the "wheat" from the "weeds" at this time. This is the "time of the end".

To say it is the true Faith is to say the many centuries of Christians before them got it all wrong. If God let more than 19 generations of Christians go astray without a true Church on the face of the earth, how is such a God a trustworthy guide or Shepherd?

Jesus himself foretold that "weeds" would take over Christianity in much the same way that false religious leaders took Judaism away from God's truth through man-made traditions. He did not say that Christianity would disappear, but that the weeds would grow along with the "wheat". All those brave souls who tried to stand up for the truth down through the ages, were killed because they dared to speak out against the sins of the Church. History repeats because humans do not learn the lessons of history and satan sticks to a regimen that works.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Nov 20, 2016

Kemosloby said:
Human babies seem a little different than animal babies, Perhaps this is a clue that God is true and evolution is wrong. If we are so like the animals, why do human babies cry and animal offspring seem fairly content. Could it be that only human babies are born corrupted by sin as the bible says?

My dogs cry. I don't get your point.

Kemosloby said:
So perhaps humans come into the world with evil inclinations, enough to scare the babies and make them cry.

Babies are born wanting eat and be cleaned up after pooping and getting some hugs. That's it.

Kemosloby said:
Ok, maybe I missed on that. But they don't throw a fit like human babies.

My dogs throw tantrums (especially my male dog). I don't get your point.

Kemosloby said:
Yeah I considered that, but the foal crying for mom was controlled, more of a call than a cry. Human babies is not at all controlled.

Yet you can narrow down what a kid wants by differentiating cries.

Kemosloby said:
The covenant of the rainbow was God's promise never to destroy all life again by a flood.

And then like Rumplestilskin, just finds a loophole and offers to kill us all by fire instead. Didn't learn a damn thing, did He?

Deeje said:
Or that crying is a mechanism that any normal mother cannot ignore? Human infants are born helpless, depending upon their mothers for their every need. Mothers get to know what a crying baby needs. There are different cries that a mother learns so that she understands the communication before verbal speech is learned.

Exactly. I can tell when my dog's call/bark is "I'm offended you think I'm crazy" or "You know that place I shouldn't go? Well ..." or "INTRUDER ALERT! DEPORT ALL SQUIRRELS!"

Deeje said:
The final judgment involves "the destruction of ungodly people", not damage to the earth itself.

I'm pretty sure that "just wanting to watch the world burn" will hurt the planet too.

Kemosloby said:
Yet even after the flood God says in Genesis, "Every inclination of mans heart is evil, even from his childhood" Then God still blessed Noah and told him to be prosperous.

He can make guys out of dirt. Why save Noah, from a failed bloodline? Why not just start over?

Kemosloby said:
Sometimes they seem to cry for no reason and nothing can stop them. Uncomfortable could be an inner discomfort. Sure they cry for normal reasons too. But the animals lack that senseless uncontrollable crying that babies do.

But you just said that they "seem" to cry for no reason. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean they lack a reason. It could be an illness, a sensitivity to something touching them, etc.

Trust me, they will shut up when the bad thing stops.

ADigitalArtist said:
We are fairly removed from exposed living which would select for quieter offspring. You see this difference in domestic dogs and birds, to.

Yes, a baby sparrow got his or her foot caught in between the slats in our fence and couldn't get free. It didn't make a sound and it was only the initial panicked wing movements that clued us in that it was stuck. We freed it carefully and monitored it and put it somewhere the dogs couldn't get it, it got over the pain (it was limping) and left shortly thereafter.

We have the dogs, cats, hawks, raccoons, and other predators. It's in their best interest (usually) not to make too much of a fuss.

Kemosloby said:
Does the creator know us better than science?

The Creator thinks we're made of dirt and can't understand how we sin.

Science can trace the biological or environmental or cultural reasons we do what we do and we are what we are.

Who's winning so far?

Kemosloby said:
No that's not true. The bible says, if something is not true it is not from God.

And we're not made out of dirt. The bible is wrong. Soooooo....

Kemosloby said:
People say you can learn about God from nature, but I think they'd just rather go hiking than to church or read the bible.

A church will give a speech about your place in life. A mountain lion on the trail will be happy to SHOW you.

Deeje said:
In fact he did all in his power to prevent a knowledge of evil from ever contaminating his human creation

LOL, He planted a tree without so much as a simple fence.

Deeje said:
Otherwise you would know that God did not set anyone up to fail.

Any other character leaves out a weapon so the kids can get a hold of it, and we blame the parent. God does it, and we congratulate Him...

Deeje said:
Do you value free will?

I don't value the non-existent unless I'm reading or watching fiction.

Deeje said:
It was foretold that only a "few" would find the cramped, narrow road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) Most would choose the easy road, not the hard one.

It's like one person saying you get the best chocolate on the peak of the mountain and others saying you get the best chocolate elsewhere on the mountain, and no one wants to admit the whole bloody mountain is made of chocolate.

Deeje said:
If you genuinely want the truth, then search for it with an open heart and mind....but don't look in the obvious places, because God is not there...and never has been.

Agreed. It can only be found in religion after much spring cleaning from centuries of filth, even the 19th century ones.

Deeje said:
Once a knowledge of evil was in the world, there was no sending it back....you cannot "unlearn" something anymore than you can "unsee" something. Everything in the human brain is on record...there is no erase button.

Actually, here.

Deeje said:
God has cursed no one

Curses are all over the bible.

Deeje said:
If you notice in the gospels Jesus did not choose any "theologians" to be his apostles....do you know why?

Usually, outside of the GOP, it's not a good thing that only uneducated dolts believe you.

Deeje said:
The Bible paints a big picture

The only big picture seems to be that everyone better deal with their own crap because God will only get around to it if He feels like it.

Deeje said:
Violence and war are part of Christendom's history, but these were never sanctioned by Jesus Christ. True Christians do not take up weapons against anyone for any reason. For a Christian, this was the recommendation...."Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good." (Romans 12:17-21)

This is the guy who said he came to bring a sword and that families and such would split over this, right?

Deeje said:
If you read the scriptures, you would know that many angels followed satan into rebellion.

Why are we trusting a God who can't keep His neighborhood under control?

I mean, you believe that Paradise is coming to Earth, but it was already here once, and look how that turned out. How many failed paradises, including heaven, do there have to be before people are clued in that life in Paradise ain't always paradise?

Nietzsche · Nov 20, 2016

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
And then like Rumplestilskin, just finds a loophole and offers to kill us all by fire instead. Didn't learn a damn thing, did He?

Maybe God needs an intervention?

"Yahweh, we all love you very much, but we're worried about the bodies...you said you wouldn't drown them anymore, but they're just coming up charred now. We think you have a problem."

Kemosloby · Nov 20, 2016

"God takes no pleasure out of punishing the wicked", but maybe a few of the angels and resurrected dead are amused by it. The first part is from the bible, second part is probably from my heart, twisted since my youth.

Deeje · Nov 20, 2016

Kemosloby said:
"God takes no pleasure out of punishing the wicked", but maybe a few of the angels and resurrected dead are amused by it. The first part is from the bible, second part is probably from my heart, twisted since my youth.

I think they call it justice.....we are made in God's image, so who doesn't like the see the bad guy get his comeuppance?

I will not lament the demise of those who rob the world of peace and who impose their will on others to their detriment.

It is the "meek who will inherit the earth".....not the obnoxious and arrogant who think that God must fit into a box of their construction.

Saint Frankenstein · Nov 20, 2016

Kemosloby said:
but I think they'd just rather go hiking than to church or read the bible

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Saint Frankenstein · Nov 20, 2016

Deeje said:
Evil exists as an equal opposite of good, like everything else has an equal opposite.

So Satan is a God equal to Yahweh? Well, at least that makes some sort of sense.

Deeje · Nov 20, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
So Satan is a God equal to Yahweh? Well, at least that makes some sort of sense.

Not equal, but a 'wannbe'.....satan, as a powerful spirit being, wanted to be a god but he had no right to worship, so he stole human hearts by appealing to selfishness. By unleashing sin, he placed humans in a situation where he could use that sin to manipulate them into doing his bidding. The level of evil in satan is counterbalanced by the level of good in Yahweh.
God never wanted humans to even know evil at all. If they had just remained obedient, none of us would be in this situation of having to combat evil every day.

viole · Nov 21, 2016

Deeje said:
Not equal, but a 'wannbe'.....satan, as a powerful spirit being, wanted to be a god but he had no right to worship, so he stole human hearts by appealing to selfishness. By unleashing sin, he placed humans in a situation where he could use that sin to manipulate them into doing his bidding. The level of evil in satan is counterbalanced by the level of good in Yahweh.
God never wanted humans to even know evil at all. If they had just remained obedient, none of us would be in this situation of having to combat evil every day.

Which entails that God never wanted us to know good, as well.

Right?

By the way, if God is omniscient, didn't see that coming? I don't know you, but if I strongly want X and know in advance that X will not be actualized, I would feel a tad silly.

Ciao

- viole

Deeje · Nov 21, 2016

viole said:
Which entails that God never wanted us to know good, as well.

Right?

Wrong. He wanted to be the one to determine what was good and bad, so that only good things would come to mankind.
It was his sovereign right to set reasonable limits and to ensure that obedience meant only a good outcome in all endeavors.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was placed in the garden as his property. He gave the fruit of every other tree to his children, so he was certainly not depriving them of anything beneficial. He knew that a knowledge of evil would not benefit them in any way, so he made sure that the penalty for eating what belonged only to him carried a punishment that was so severe that only a fool would break that law. There was only one rule and it was easy to keep it. The devil planted seeds of doubt that the Creator was holding back something they had a right to have....they fell for that, and the rest as they say, is history.

By the way, if God is omniscient, didn't see that coming? I don't know you, but if I strongly want X and know in advance that X will not be actualized, I would feel a tad silly.

Just because God "can" know whatever he wants to, doesn't mean that he chooses to know everything. I use the illustration of the locksmith. If he had a key to unlock every lock in the world, would he have to, just because he could?

In giving humans free will, God had to step back and allow them the freedom to choose their course. He would just observe and intervene only when necessary to keep his original purpose on track. The devil wanted to be a god to humans so God let him. Humans wanted to prove that they didn't need to follow God's direction...so he let them rule themselves under the influence of the god they chose.
The devil was also exercising his free will, so in allowing the scenario to play out naturally in both realms, humans and angels get to see firsthand where an independent course in opposition to their Maker takes them. This will settle the issue of God's rightful sovereignty once and for all time. Those who do not wish to live under the sovereignty of the Creator will forfeit their right to life. He will not force anyone to love him or to serve him. We choose our own destiny.

Kuzcotopia · Nov 22, 2016

Kemosloby said:
Human babies seem a little different than animal babies, Perhaps this is a clue that God is true and evolution is wrong. If we are so like the animals, why do human babies cry and animal offspring seem fairly content. Could it be that only human babies are born corrupted by sin as the bible says?

The covenant of the rainbow;
Genesis 8:21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

So perhaps humans come into the world with evil inclinations, enough to scare the babies and make them cry.

Humans are also the only animal that suffers tooth decay.

Because tooth decay, therefore God?

Kuzcotopia · Nov 22, 2016

Kemosloby said:
Sometimes they seem to cry for no reason and nothing can stop them. Uncomfortable could be an inner discomfort. Sure they cry for normal reasons too. But the animals lack that senseless uncontrollable crying that babies do.

Do you have kids? I'll bet you don't.

An infants' crying is never senseless. There are infants who experience "cholic," which usually last about 3 months.

Many think it is a response to reflux, but we're not sure.

My 7 year old always has a reason, and each of her cries were distinctive.

Human babies have larger brains compared to the rest of their bodies. It's why childbirth for humans is more dangerous, and it's why human babies are so helpless, and it's why they can communicate.

Remember, crying is communication. When my daughter looked at me, less than a week old, and I made faces at her, she'd make the same faces back.

Humans are evolved to communicate. When you have your own children, all babies' communcation, including their crying, is part of this.

Kemosloby · Nov 22, 2016

Kuzcotopia said:
Humans are also the only animal that suffers tooth decay.

Because tooth decay, therefore God?

Tooth decay doesn't come from the heart. You don't notice anything odd about babies crying at times; A funny look in their eye, lack of eye contact or a sinister grin?

Ouroboros · Nov 22, 2016

Kuzcotopia said:
Humans are also the only animal that suffers tooth decay.

I'm not sure about that.

One of the dogs we had, a poodle, had problems with her teeth. We had to have a couple of her teeth taken out because of cavities.

Why do babies cry?

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