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Unscientific, Secularist Cosmology: Everything from Nothing! Not!

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It makes me wonder how much we would get done if everyone just said "I don't know," quit concerning themselves about such things (god/religion), and went on with their lives?
 
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McBell

Resident Sourpuss
having the power of creation is not an advantage?
and on a scale ....universal.....it would be enormous
A bold empty claim is a bold empty claim regardless of how much you jump and scream while making them.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
and have you been overtaking your vitamins?
I like the ask redundant irrelevant diversion questions game.
Is that not what you were doing with post #67?
If not, you will have to better explain your dogma.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I like the ask redundant irrelevant diversion questions game.
Is that not what you were doing with post #67?
If not, you will have to better explain your dogma.
no explanation is needed

just better counter on your part
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
the earth is full with gravesites....
do the dead sleep?......or scream?

I like walking in graveyards because they always quiet and peaceful. In one graveyard I visited a Victorian gentleman had a mausoleum built well before his death, and then visited it regularly to sit and drink tea and take in the peaceful setting. Very civilised.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I like walking in graveyards because they always quiet and peaceful. In one graveyard I visited a Victorian gentleman had a mausoleum built well before his death, and then visited it regularly to sit and drink tea and take in the peaceful setting. Very civilised.
I have done similar things.

but I don't visit the dead as such anymore
I look for them in my dreams
 

ftacky

Member
IMHO, here is why some atheists will believe almost anything scientists claim:

1) A scientist is highly educated, so he must be on to something.
2) If a group of scientists agree, so much the better (a popular vote among scientists hold a lot of weight).
3) Some (not all) atheists are biased against anything supernatural, so they tend to gravitate toward any half-baked secular theory which leaves God out of the picture.

Do you believe the scientists (quoted in the original post) - that everything came from nothing?

If so, why?

1 Timothy 4: To suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
The laws of physics tell us: Matter cannot be created (nor can it create itself).

Question: Has anyone ever seen something come from nothing? If you have, your eyes are lying to you.
Question: Do you believe something can come from nothing? If you do, you are lying to yourself.

This hasn't stopped secularists - bent on denying their Creator - from making up fanciful and unscientific theories to sooth their consciences. Here are some quotes:


"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing...Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist." (Stephen Hawking: 'God did not create the Universe'; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11161493).

"But the latest scientific consensus asserts that the universe sprang naturally from nothing because the total energy of the universe equals zero (thanks to negative energy). Nature abhors a void and fills it with quantum fluctuations." ('Is Everybody 100% Positive There is no God?', http://www.atheistnexus.org).

Richard Dawkins: "The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years AFTER THE UNIVERSE EVOLVED OUT OF LITERALLY NOTHING is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice." ('From tail to tale on the path of pilgrims in life', The Scotsman, April 9, 2005).

"It is rather fantastic to realize that the laws of physics can describe how everything was created in a random quantum fluctuation out of nothing, and how over the course of 15 billion years, matter could organize in such complex ways that we have human beings sitting here, talking, doing things intentionally." (Alan Harvey Guth, theoretical physicist and cosmologist, Discover Magazine, April 1, 2002)

"To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing. But to a quantum physicist, nothing is, in fact, something." (Discover Magazine, 'Physics & Math/Cosmology').

"To understand these facts we have to turn to science. Where did they all come from, and how did they get so darned outrageous? Well, it all started with nothing." ('Fifty Outrageous Animal Facts', Animal Planet).

"Few people are aware of the fact that many modern physicists claim that things -- perhaps even the entire universe -- can indeed arise from nothing via natural processes." ('Creation ex nihilo -- Without God', 1997, Atheist, Mark I. Vuletic).

"This initial paucity of information is consistent with the notion that the universe sprang from nothing." ( 'The Universe Sprang From Nothing', Seth Lloyd, Physicist).

"Assuming the universe came from nothing, it is empty to begin with . . . Only by the constant action of an agent outside the universe, such as God, could a state of nothingness be maintained. The fact that we have something is just what we would expect if there is no God." (Victor J. Stenger, atheist, Prof. Physics, University of Hawaii. Author of, 'God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist').

"Even if we don't have a precise idea of exactly what took place at the beginning, we can at least see that the origin of the universe from nothing need not be unlawful or unnatural or unscientific." (Paul Davies, physicist, Arizona State University).

"Some physicists believe our universe was created by colliding with another, but Kaku [a theoretical physicist at City University of New York] says it also may have sprung from nothing . . . " (Scienceline.org)

"Maybe the universe itself sprang into existence out of nothingness - a gigantic vacuum fluctuation which we know today as the big bang. Remarkably, the laws of modern physics allow for this possibility. (Pagels, 1982, 247. 'How the Universe can come from Nothing').

"The universe burst into something from absolutely nothing—zero, nada. And as it got bigger, it became filled with even more stuff that came from absolutely nowhere." (Discover magazine, April 2002).

"Space and time both started at the Big Bang and therefore there was nothing before it." (Cornell University 'Ask an Astronomer').

"It is now becoming clear that everything can -- and probably did -- come from nothing." (Robert A. J. Matthews, physicist, Ashton University, England).

"Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know." (All About Science).

"So now you have an idea of just what went on in the early Universe, and how we got from nothing to something. But if you want the really short version, it runs like this, 'First there was nothing, then there was the Big Bang, and energy cooled down into matter, and we're made of matter, so here we are." (Karl S. Kruszelnicki, News in Science).

"If this admittedly speculative hypothesis is correct, then the answer to the ultimate question is that the universe is the ultimate free lunch! It came from nothing, and its total energy is zero, but it nevertheless has incredible structure and complexity." (Alexei V. Filippenko and Jay M. Pasachoff, 'A Universe from Nothing').

"It's no miracle, it requires no magic man in the sky, particle/anti-particle pairs just pop into existence constantly." (PZ Myers, Something Comes From Nothing; Pharyngula, February 3, 2011).

“The universe is flat. It has zero total energy and it could have begun from nothing ...
If you have nothing in quantum mechanics, you'll always get something. It's that simple.”
(Theoretical physicist Lawrence Krauss, 'A Universe From Nothing', October 21, 2009, Atheist Alliance International event).

“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.” (Professor Stephen Hawking, 'Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God', September 2, 2010, The Guardian Online).


Question: Why do so many scientists with PhDs believe all matter in the universe came from nothing? That is, mega-tons of dirt and rock - from nothing! They know the standard laws of physics. So why?

Jesus gave us the answer: The Narrow and Wide Gates (Matthew 7):

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

We will notice that Jesus made no mention of educational status. This is because, whether we on the broad road running away from God or on the narrow road running to God, our education and intellect is not the key - instead, the key is our motives and attitudes.

Matthew 5: Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

Question: What is the condition of your heart? Are you prejudiced against God?

Instead of entertaining fairy tales (which violate the laws of physics) about how everything came from nothing, we all need to heed these words:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matthew 7)

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29).

Do this experiment: Pray God would open you eyes, then read the Bible daily with an open mind. I suggest starting at Matthew.


What do you think?

If every physicist that ever existed was 100 percent wrong, it does not get you to "Jesus". You have to do the work and provide scientifically relevant research that demonstrates that your position is correct. We look forward to that post.
 

ftacky

Member
Do you believe the scientists (quoted in the original post) - that everything came from nothing?

If so, why?

Is it because a group of scientists said it? Details please.
 

ftacky

Member
In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation (or quantum vacuum fluctuation or vacuum fluctuation) is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] as explained in Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle...

This allows the creation of particle-antiparticle pairs of virtual particles. The effects of these particles are measurable, for example, in the effective charge of the electron, different from its "naked" charge.

1) We have NEVER observed matter materializing from nothing, especially very large objects like planets. To refer us to a theory or 'uncertainty principle' is so very weak at best, and a rabbit trail at worst.

2) A measurable fluctuation of energy at the minutest atomic level does NOT get us anywhere near to an entire universe worth of matter - coming from nothing!

Ultimately, your belief in the scientists' statements in the OP is a matter of your faith. If you believe everything came from nothing, it is because you have chosen to believe so.

Now, there is nothing wrong with placing your faith in something. However, when a secularist refuses to use the word "faith" simply for arguments' sake, this is dishonesty, plain and simple.

All humans use faith in one form or another.

I like this definition of 'faith': firm belief in something for which there is no tangible verification or proof.

Is there any verification that planets came from nothing? Not.

Verse for the day:
John 15:25: This fulfills what is written in their Scriptures: 'They hated me without cause.'

God gives us life, family, food, everything....and we hate Him without cause.
 

ftacky

Member
So many secularists believe what scientists say but won't say WHY they believe.

Here is the one word explanation: faith.

Hebrews 11: "Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."
 
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