Wirey
Fartist
Has anyone ever mentioned that maybe, just maybe, God loves all the people He created, even the gay ones? And that He made them that way for a reason?
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A serious question for the religious types about gay and trans people
- Thread starter Wirey
- Start date
Has anyone ever mentioned that maybe, just maybe, God loves all the people He created, even the gay ones? And that He made them that way for a reason?
Right, so "who" wrote that? King James? Paul? And which one of them is God?
Oh, wait, I guess Isaiah wrote that originally. Was Isaiah God? Or is my point made -- that everything you think you are studying "about God" is actually studying what some other mere human being thought and said about God?
He didn't make gay people, gay people are self made, meaning they desired to be gay by choice. The bible is against anyone living a life as such, although they can be saved if they "choose" to change there way.
Wirey
Fartist
Really? I have no recollection of ever deciding to be heterosexual. Could you explain how the process works? How does one go from "Hmmmm, I think I like that vagina," to "Hmmm, maybe I'd be happier if my butthole was a size 17"?
Gyrannon
Agnostic Necromancer
Regardless of what the Bible says, there's this little thing called "Free Will" bestowed by your God. By playing out like you have the authority to remove it because some rules are not being met, you're basically going against his Will. f
The Bible says they'll be damned? Let them. Its their life.
Also God created everything: This includes Gays & other sexual preferences, not just for Humans (animals in the wild have shown to do Gay acts). If God is against that, then the sexual preference wouldn't exist. It makes no sense to create what you hate.
Be like a Jewish scientist who loathes Hitler decides to make a machine that mimics Hitler in every possible way.
Either way, I don't see any harm in what anyone does in terms of their sexual preference (unless of course it is forced), this is where Religions that are against this stuff should just take a deep breath & live their lives without worrying about how other people live.
The Bible says they'll be damned? Let them. Its their life.
Also God created everything: This includes Gays & other sexual preferences, not just for Humans (animals in the wild have shown to do Gay acts). If God is against that, then the sexual preference wouldn't exist. It makes no sense to create what you hate.
Be like a Jewish scientist who loathes Hitler decides to make a machine that mimics Hitler in every possible way.
Either way, I don't see any harm in what anyone does in terms of their sexual preference (unless of course it is forced), this is where Religions that are against this stuff should just take a deep breath & live their lives without worrying about how other people live.
Paul wrote 13 of the New Testament books, and yes he and the other writers were divinely inspired to write ONLY what God had instructed them to. Do you honestly believe that God doesn't have the ability to make sure we, his creation, get what he wants us to read and know?
Yes, I'd be happy to, it's called decisions, choosing, just like you do with many other things in life, just like choosing to reply to my comment, or did someone FORCE YOU into it? You just admitted you had no recollection of being heterosexual, because that's the way you were born, but because you choose to be something that is contrary to the way you were born, it could only come by a CONSCIOUS CHOICE.
You were born with male parts, which started your life as a heterosexual because of the pattern of things you do as a male in your early years, like going to the bathroom and standing up when you pee, being dressed in boys clothes, choice of toys, being treated by boys and girls as a boy, but when one gets old enough to desire to change because of others in society that are gay and a host of other external forces, plays an integral part in you desiring to alter your lifestyle to be what you have chosen to become.
Wirey
Fartist
Explain the conscious choice. Every gay person I've ever heard of says they were born that way. Not one, ever, has said "Yeah, I picked dudes because that way everyone in the house would want to watch Thursday Night Football." How is this choice made? How did you make it?
Nyingjé Tso
Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
Vanakkam,
"You CHOSE to be homosexual, YOU made that decision, it's YOUR fault if you are like this because THIS IS THE WAY you MADE IT"
*sigh*
No, it's not a choice. It... Just is. People are born like this, either they accept it, or they reject it, or they are so much repressed by extremists religious communities and/or families that they suffer all their life for not being allowed to accept themselves as they are.
I had NO idea what homosexuality was EVER and then some totally random high school day little Jaya looked at a beautiful girl, found her attractive and thought "I'd hit dat~"
And suddenly all clicked in her head. "But.. But I love dicks !", poor confused Jaya told herself. "... Well I guess I like boobs too"
And then she realized she was bisexual, shrugged and went on her way.
Fortunately little Jaya didn't had the horrible "education" some have, and had no problem accepting herself as bisexual. Her friends/teachers/whatever didn't give a damn too because they are respectuous of others beliefs and lives and aren't extremist idiots.
The end.
Aum Namah Shivaya
"You CHOSE to be homosexual, YOU made that decision, it's YOUR fault if you are like this because THIS IS THE WAY you MADE IT"
*sigh*
No, it's not a choice. It... Just is. People are born like this, either they accept it, or they reject it, or they are so much repressed by extremists religious communities and/or families that they suffer all their life for not being allowed to accept themselves as they are.
I had NO idea what homosexuality was EVER and then some totally random high school day little Jaya looked at a beautiful girl, found her attractive and thought "I'd hit dat~"
And suddenly all clicked in her head. "But.. But I love dicks !", poor confused Jaya told herself. "... Well I guess I like boobs too"
And then she realized she was bisexual, shrugged and went on her way.
Fortunately little Jaya didn't had the horrible "education" some have, and had no problem accepting herself as bisexual. Her friends/teachers/whatever didn't give a damn too because they are respectuous of others beliefs and lives and aren't extremist idiots.
The end.
Aum Namah Shivaya
Wirey
Fartist
Bisexual, eh? How you doin'? (Please note the 50% increase in chances of rejection).
I did not choose to be gay. I didn't want to be gay. I sat in the parking lot of a gun store for an afternoon trying to work up the courage to "not be gay".
Tom
Wirey
Fartist
Are you sure? This Shava guy says you picked it, and he seems awful certain that God never created any gay anywhere, ever.
Now I hate to say this in quite so straightforward a fashion, but this is simply ignorance on your part. You cannot tell us how you chose to be heterosexual, nor can you tell us the criteria you considered in making that choice. If this were possible, you would be able to tell us how you could now choose to be gay -- and I don't mean to choose to submit to some act antithetical to your nature, I mean to choose to change your very nature so that you are no longer attracted to the opposite sex, and instead attracted to the same sex.
You cannot do this. And neither did any gay person. The position of the APA is based on hundreds of thousands of person years of study and observation. Your opinion is based on nothing -- absolutely nothing -- except your own ignorance and bigotry. Those are not particularly nice qualities, in my view.
No, he most certainly did not. Hebrews, absolutely not. Ephesians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus, almost certainly not (80% of scholars say "no"). 2 Thessalonians and Colossians likely not (50% of scholars say "no"). I'm sorry you don't like that, but if you actually read very carefully, you would find that some of these things -- supposedly written by the very same author -- actually say completely opposite things to one another.
You might check out John Dominic Crossan's book, The First Paul.
You really are quite ignorant about these matters, aren't you? Perhaps you could spend just a little time actually learning about the things you are so willing to pontificate on, rather than just spewing garbage that you couldn't back up with a boatload of Bibles.
Lesson one: if you don't understand something, if you haven't got any actual knowledge on a given topic, trust me, your opinions are worth precisely the amount of effort you spent acquiring the knowledge that supports them. I really have to tell you, I despise people who are willing to speak authoritatively out of pure ignorance.
I found your post amusing. Thanks for sharing you story about little Jaya!
Regarding what appears to be the main topic, it seems posters are dividing into two distinct camps:
Camp #1 : People choose to be homosexual.
Camp #2 : People are born with their sexual preference.
I'm not sure that it is 100% either way in all cases. The brain has been shown to be fairly plastic (easily changed) and an entire host of environmental factors plays into our subconscious choices. That's one of the fascinating parts about being human. We think everything that isn't conscious is hard-wired, but I rather think (and there is a huge amount of research to support this) that most of our decisions are influenced strongly by subconscious factors and our subconscious is a strange, scary quagmire of our accumulated experiences, genetics, dreams, etc.
In practical language, I have never liked dicks, and honestly, who doesn't like boobs? But I'm not sure the experience is the same for boys and girls. Objectively, boys are lumpy and hairy, girls are somewhat prettier to look at considering the species as a whole.
Also, it seems in my society at least, homosexual and bisexual women are far, far less stigmatized than homosexual men. That's because heterosexual men in our country are classically, pitifully insecure and don't like even the mention that they might be gay. So could that stigma influence the "choices" people make, or how they choose to view themselves?
So to say one is just "born that way" is probably true of most gay men and women. A gay person probably doesn't remember making a conscious decision to like girls or boys. However, especially for bisexuals, it's not clear exactly that everyone is just "born that way." For example, I identify with being heterosexual but I rather suspect that if I were a girl, I would be attracted to other girls. I just tend to be an aesthetic purist and in my eyes women are (on the average) a lot prettier than men.
tldr; boys are hairy and lump, girls are (more often) cute, and being gay is probably not 100% genetic. (more like 95%, probably) And being bisexual just seems like a good idea if you're a girl.
You had to work up the courage not to be gay? I guess those who worked up the courage to be heterosexual at birth had to work up the courage to go back to being heterosexual after choosing not to be gay anymore, right, this is absolutely ridiculous. Are you aware many people who had been gay for decades have turned there life around, so what say ye now?
A gun store?
You should've chosen a Whole Foods or a Trader Joe's parking lot.
Then you could've bought courage inducing snacks to while away the time.
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That I am glad that your religion is dying out in the civilized world.
Tom
