vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
Wow, "modern socialism" strikes me as an oxymoron. Strange, eh?
You must not have heard that a socialist, borderline anarchist territory (Rojava) is currently a major player in the Syrian Civil War...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Socialist Jesus?
- Thread starter MPHJackson
- Start date
You must not have heard that a socialist, borderline anarchist territory (Rojava) is currently a major player in the Syrian Civil War...
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
A man who told people to sell everything they own and give the money to the poor and that a rich man cannot get into Heaven certainly wasn't teaching Capitalism or acquiring and hording material items.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Depends on how old, er "mature", one is.Wow, "modern socialism" strikes me as an oxymoron. Strange, eh?
BTW, the Wiki site does go through the various forms of "socialism": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism , and you've lived through a lot more than two of them even though probably the ones you're referring to bastardized the original paradigm of socialism.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Which makes me ask why it is that so few ever got "socialism" right? The Scandehoovian's, to a degree, I suppose, but anywhere with a lot of people or are you going to pretend that much of what we now enjoy would not have come about without socialism?Depends on how old, er "mature", one is.
BTW, the Wiki site does go through the various forms of "socialism": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism , and you've lived through a lot more than two of them even though probably the ones you're referring to bastardized the original paradigm of socialism.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Socialism developed out of the mess that unbridled capitalism created. In a free-market economy, there will always be those who simply either cannot find a job or can only find poorly paying jobs, and yet capitalism didn't deal with the many problems this created. All one has to do is to open up pretty much any serious history book and look at coverage of what life was like in western Europe and the States back in the 1800's and very early 1900's. Charities alone simply could not and did not meet the needs of people left behind.
Secondly, that which especially led to a thriving middle class was much less capitalism, although that did certainly help, but was the development of unions, which had the effect of being a "tide that raises all ships". The fact that unions today here in the States are much weaker than several decades ago at least partially accounts to why the average standard of living here has actually somewhat declined over the last four decades.
Without an adequate safety net, if the economy takes a noser, panic tends to set in, much like we saw happen during the Great Depression. People stop spending because of fear they could lose their jobs, businesses close, and the market shrinks.
Because of these problems, socialism was developed to handle the ills of capitalism, and pretty much all countries today are what we call "mixed economies", namely a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Therefore, when someone says "socialism doesn't work", they have no clue what they're talking about.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Indeed. Conservatism with a heart meets Socialism with a brain.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Except that socialism was and is much more difficult to set up than capitalism, therefore much more "brainy"Indeed. Conservatism with a heart meets Socialism with a brain.
,and capitalism historically was not classified as being "conservative"-- it was way too radical for that. "Conservatism" centuries ago was what state control & ownership was.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
The Book of Acts is very socialist in nature, sprinkled with a smattering of magic and superstition.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And the Sermon On the Mount is a classic narrative on socialism if there ever was one. Jesus would have be fully aware of the work of the Sanhedrin and Temple priesthood in following Jewish Law on taking care of the poor and widows, and yet he took it a step further by saying that one should even be willing to largely empty even their their own personal "pockets". But so many of today's "health & wealth" evangelicals don't seem to be willing to follow him on this.
BTW, ever see the house of Joel Osteen? You might consider googling that as just one example.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
How any Christian with half a brain could ever be persuaded by the prosperity gospel is beyond me...
The teachings of this modern movement directly contradict almost everything written in the New Testament.
I'll poke fun at religious zealots all day long, but you have to give credit where credit is due. Deep faith and a purposed focus on the well-being of others is something that should be applauded, regardless of where it comes from.
My favorite for the modern culture is James 2:16
If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?
Wishing someone well is about as helpful as giving them 100 Facebook likes - it's hollow and meaningless.
If socialists do not explicetely object slavery, then He might have been a socialist.
Ciao
- viole
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
Those are not just conservative messages, but what conservatives actually practice, particularly through church.
The Bible does not promote handing over wealth to politicians, which is invariably the exact opposite. aka socialism.
Kim Jong Un is one of the richest men on Earth.
The French socialist president recently said that Trump's excesses make people sick.
This is where he lives
entirely on the taxpayers dime of course, who generally live in buggy old apartments. this is socialism
and precisely the greed and corruption Jesus died fighting against
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's a shame you can't get beyond stereotypes and get into reality of what socialism really is, plus it's probably even more a shame that you don't seem to understand Jesus basic message of compassion and justice for everyone and how this fits into the Jewish paradigm of the day. Instead of checking things out by doing research, all you do is spout the same nonsense over and over again that could easily be corrected if you spent even several minutes on each.Those are not just conservative messages, but what conservatives actually practice, particularly through church.
The Bible does not promote handing over wealth to politicians, which is invariably the exact opposite. aka socialism.
Kim Jong Un is one of the richest men on Earth.
The French socialist president recently said that Trump's excesses make people sick.
This is where he lives
entirely on the taxpayers dime of course, who generally live in buggy old apartments. this is socialism
and precisely the greed and corruption Jesus died fighting against
Here, let me help you with "socialism", and please note all the different types there are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism Also, here's "mixed economy", which most countries use today that includes heavy doses of socialism in most cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy
Here's Jewish Law that is found in Torah that Jesus said he believed in, and it's best to focus on how the Law and government was used to help the poor and widows: http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
I'm a socialist and I want to abolish the state... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not likely possible because anarchy always tends to lead towards more authoritarian systems that try and regain control of a society in chaos. However, there is a way to shift more control to both the individual and local governments through a type of Marxism.
I gotta go, but I can explain the above if you want tomorrow.
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
I hear that from many an intelligent & well meaning person. and yet in practice socialism invariably = vastly expanding the state.
There seems to be a very flexible definition, but it always comes down to each new socialist dictator wanting to see their new improved version of socialism imposed on humanity 'for their own good'
which in practice requires the same oppressive state to ram it down everyone elses throats... I guess it's this paradox that accounts for the disastrous consequences of socialism we have seen time and again
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
If "socialism" doesn't work, then why are most countries in the world successfully using it in conjunction with capitalism?
vaguelyhumanoid
Active Member
You're thinking of Leninism. I'm an anarchist. I've never heard of anarchism vastly expanding the state.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
And of course Classic Marxism is way closer to Anarchy than it is Leninism.
But, I've noticed that even with terms such as "Capitalism" and "Libertarianism" most people do not know what they are talking about, let alone the widely misunderstood and misinterpreted ones such as Anarchy, Socialism, Communism, and Marxism. Evan Fascism and Dictator gets thrown around a lot without people actually knowing their is a difference between the two.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
He also thought that the end of the world was coming in their lifetimes. Who needs stuff when you have people to help?