JW's Preach A Different Gospel

djhwoodwerks · Mar 12, 2016

Nada said:
King James Bible Psalms 83:18
That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Eph 1:19-21 (ESVST) 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Phi 2:8-11 (ESVST) 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Tina57 · Aug 30, 2016

Excuse me for butting in on this ? Being only a new member.
The name Jehovah - found at Exodus 6:2, 3 and Psalm 83:18 in KJV is Gods personal name. Jesus prayed at Matthew 6:9, 10 Hallowed or make holy YOUR NAME.
If it is found in those places of NON NWT Bibles obviously it must be a legitimate name.
The NWT of JWs has put it back in 7,000 places it was left out, omitted, deleted and otherwise erased from the Bible.
Would lovers of Shakespeare's works stand for his name to be omitted from his works?
There would be a furore.
Yet the name of the Sovereign, Creator of heaven and earth and everything in the Universe is left off his PERSONAL LETTER TO HUMANS and there is no protest. Worse people including churches paint God as Jesus, a Trinity, dead, uncaring, hostile angry to torment souls in hellfire, that he causes calamity though James 1:13 says he doesnt try anyone with bad things.

james2ko · Aug 30, 2016

Tina57 said:
Excuse me for butting in on this ? Being only a new member.
The name Jehovah - found at Exodus 6:2, 3 and Psalm 83:18 in KJV is Gods personal name. Jesus prayed at Matthew 6:9, 10 Hallowed or make holy YOUR NAME.
If it is found in those places of NON NWT Bibles obviously it must be a legitimate name.
The NWT of JWs has put it back in 7,000 places it was left out, omitted, deleted and otherwise erased from the Bible.
Would lovers of Shakespeare's works stand for his name to be omitted from his works?
There would be a furore.
Yet the name of the Sovereign, Creator of heaven and earth and everything in the Universe is left off his PERSONAL LETTER TO HUMANS and there is no protest. Worse people including churches paint God as Jesus, a Trinity, dead, uncaring, hostile angry to torment souls in hellfire, that he causes calamity though James 1:13 says he doesnt try anyone with bad things.

Hi Tina. Welcome to the forum. A word to the wise. Hope you are well grounded and knowledgeable in scripture and your faith. The folks in this forum will test the limits of both.

For instance, if God "doesn't try anyone with bad things", how do you explain the trial of Job, which Satan and Job credited God for being ultimately responsible (Job 1:11;Job 2:10)? Even God Himself indicated He was ultimately responsible for Job's horrible ordeal (Job 2:3).

djhwoodwerks · Aug 30, 2016

Tina57 said:
Excuse me for butting in on this ? Being only a new member.
The name Jehovah - found at Exodus 6:2, 3 and Psalm 83:18 in KJV is Gods personal name. Jesus prayed at Matthew 6:9, 10 Hallowed or make holy YOUR NAME.
If it is found in those places of NON NWT Bibles obviously it must be a legitimate name.
The NWT of JWs has put it back in 7,000 places it was left out, omitted, deleted and otherwise erased from the Bible.
Would lovers of Shakespeare's works stand for his name to be omitted from his works?
There would be a furore.
Yet the name of the Sovereign, Creator of heaven and earth and everything in the Universe is left off his PERSONAL LETTER TO HUMANS and there is no protest. Worse people including churches paint God as Jesus, a Trinity, dead, uncaring, hostile angry to torment souls in hellfire, that he causes calamity though James 1:13 says he doesnt try anyone with bad things.

I have no problem with people using the name, "Jehovah", it's a name 'humans' gave God so they would have a way to say "YHVH". Do you believe that Moses, or David, or Jeremiah, Isaiah or Mathew, John, Paul, Peter or even Jesus, uttered the name J. E. H. O. V. A. H.?

The problem I have is that witnesses teach that unless one "says" or "uses" those seven letters that make Jehovah, they are not a Christian and they are dishonoring God. You know your earthly fathers personal name, do you ever call him by it? That would be disrespectful wouldn't it? Do you dishonor your earthly father by not using his personal name and calling him by his title, 'dad'? Why would your earthly father be worthy of more honor than your heavenly Father? If God is your Father.

What if people couldn't pronounce Shakespeare's name, and added more letters, or left some off, to make a name they could pronounce, would lover's of him stand for that?

James 1:13 says, "God" cannot be tempted with evil.

James 1:13 (ESV Strong's) 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 30, 2016

Tina57 said:
Excuse me for butting in on this ? Being only a new member.
The name Jehovah - found at Exodus 6:2, 3 and Psalm 83:18 in KJV is Gods personal name. Jesus prayed at Matthew 6:9, 10 Hallowed or make holy YOUR NAME.
If it is found in those places of NON NWT Bibles obviously it must be a legitimate name.
The NWT of JWs has put it back in 7,000 places it was left out, omitted, deleted and otherwise erased from the Bible.
Would lovers of Shakespeare's works stand for his name to be omitted from his works?
There would be a furore.
Yet the name of the Sovereign, Creator of heaven and earth and everything in the Universe is left off his PERSONAL LETTER TO HUMANS and there is no protest. Worse people including churches paint God as Jesus, a Trinity, dead, uncaring, hostile angry to torment souls in hellfire, that he causes calamity though James 1:13 says he doesnt try anyone with bad things.

Jesus said,

John 17:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world.

If that name, J. E. H. O. V. A. H., not YHVH was, and is so important, and people "must" use it, why didn't Jesus 'ever' use it, aside from quoting OT scripture?

Tina57 · Aug 30, 2016

Something that others raised before on the same issue, (in another forum) they answered possibly because he always addresses Jehovah as Father. Being the Son.
Though he does repeat at Mark 12:28 - 30 the first commandment using Jehovah's name therein as you say.
Those who responded said, just as we show respect and honour to our parent by not addressing them using their personal name, perhaps that is similar.
To this day I would never address my mother as Janet.
Jesus always called him Father Jehovah only ever referred to Jesus as My Son.
Anyway that being the case Jesus name meaning Jehovah is Salvation as the One who provided man with a way of redemption and salvation - Jehovah is very different to the millions of deities, gods and idols that are worshipped.
Each one Jesus and Jehovah were in agreement of what each was. One was a Mighty God and a servant lesser than his Father, the other - the Almighty God.
Jehovah's name basically had the meaning of He Causes to Become. He could be a Rescuer, Protector, Defender, Creator, Sovereign, Alpha and Omega, King of Eternity and at times he can cause his servants to be what he wants them to be.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 31, 2016

Tina57 said:
Something that others raised before on the same issue, (in another forum) they answered possibly because he always addresses Jehovah as Father. Being the Son.
Though he does repeat at Mark 12:28 - 30 the first commandment using Jehovah's name therein as you say.
Those who responded said, just as we show respect and honour to our parent by not addressing them using their personal name, perhaps that is similar.
To this day I would never address my mother as Janet.
Jesus always called him Father Jehovah only ever referred to Jesus as My Son.
Anyway that being the case Jesus name meaning Jehovah is Salvation as the One who provided man with a way of redemption and salvation - Jehovah is very different to the millions of deities, gods and idols that are worshipped.
Each one Jesus and Jehovah were in agreement of what each was. One was a Mighty God and a servant lesser than his Father, the other - the Almighty God.
Jehovah's name basically had the meaning of He Causes to Become. He could be a Rescuer, Protector, Defender, Creator, Sovereign, Alpha and Omega, King of Eternity and at times he can cause his servants to be what he wants them to be.

You would never call your mother by her personal name? Out of respect? If so, I would then have to ask, why offer her more respect than your heavenly Father? Providing you consider God as your Father.

If Jesus is only a Mighty "God" then He is a false "God", Jesus Himself said,

John 17:3 (ESV Strong's) 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Jesus is either the "only true God" or He is a false god He can't be, "a god", "Mighty God" or any other type of god, unless you believe there is something else in between "TRUE" and "FALSE".

Speaking of God, Isaiah said,

Isaiah 44:6 (ESV Strong's) 6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

Jesus speaking,

Revelation 1:17-18 (ESV Strong's) 17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore,

Are there "2" firsts and "2" lasts?

URAVIP2ME · Sep 1, 2016

katiemygirl said:
So your answer to the problem is that we toss out ALL translations?

We can compare translations ( Not paraphrased versions ) and we can compare the with what is man's final destination.
Doesn't Hebrews 2:5 speak of the world ' inhabited earth ' to come ?_______- Matthew 12:32
Jesus was the first to ascend to heaven - John 3:13; Luke 12:32; Luke 22:28-30; Revelation 5:9-10 Revelation 20:6
To me, those resurrected to heaven, like Jesus, have a specific purpose or job to do ( govern as kings and priests over Earth )
Those called to heaven never become angels, but are saints or holy ones - Daniel 7:18
If God would take all righteous people to heaven that would mean God failed in his purpose for Earth - Genesis 1:28
So, Earth is Not meant to be a stepping stone to another realm, but that humble people will inherit the Earth - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:10-11
So, while most of Christendom gives people only two (2) choices: Heaven forever or forever fire, what the Bible really teaches is that some go to heaven - Luke 12:32 - while the majority of people - John 10:16 - can live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
The opportunity of living forever on Earth is: gospel ' good news ' - Matthew 24:14
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

djhwoodwerks · Sep 1, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
Those called to heaven never become angels, but are saints or holy ones - Daniel 7:18

Mark 12:23-25 (ESV Strong's) In the resurrection, when they rise again, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as wife.”
24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

djhwoodwerks · Sep 1, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
So, while most of Christendom gives people only two (2) choices: Heaven forever or forever fire, what the Bible really teaches is that some go to heaven - Luke 12:32 - while the majority of people - John 10:16 - can live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth.

You are using John 10:16 to say that it means the majority of people will live on earth, but what does that verse "Really" say?

John 10:16 (ESV Strong's) 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.

He's talking to the apostles correct? They are the ones you claim are going to heaven, correct? Didn't Jesus say, "I have other sheep", I must bring them "ALSO"? Bring them where?

URAVIP2ME · Sep 1, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
Mark 12:23-25 (ESV Strong's) In the resurrection, when they rise again, whose wife will she be? For the seven had her as wife.”
24 Jesus said to them, “Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Yes, angels do Not marry. So, the saints (holy ones) are similar like angels in that they will Not marry. Being like an angel does Not mean: angel.

URAVIP2ME · Sep 1, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
You are using John 10:16 to say that it means the majority of people will live on earth, but what does that verse "Really" say?
John 10:16 (ESV Strong's) 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
He's talking to the apostles correct? They are the ones you claim are going to heaven, correct? Didn't Jesus say, "I have other sheep", I must bring them "ALSO"? Bring them where?

'other sheep' bring them where -> Matthew 25:31-33
Being them through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 26:20
The humble sheep-like ones alive at Jesus' glory time can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth. Jesus is the one to fulfill God's promise to father Abraham ( Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18 ) that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefits of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

Muffled · Sep 3, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
'other sheep' bring them where -> Matthew 25:31-33
Being them through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 26:20
The humble sheep-like ones alive at Jesus' glory time can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth. Jesus is the one to fulfill God's promise to father Abraham ( Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18 ) that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefits of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

I don't believe there is any evidence to support this view. I believe those alive will be raptured.
I Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

moorea944 · Sep 3, 2016

Muffled said:
I don't believe there is any evidence to support this view. I believe those alive will be raptured.
I Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The org. text is not "caught up' it is snatched or taken away. "Caught up:" is a translation error. Where is Christ going to be when he returns? On earth, to "set up": a kingdom. We will meet him with the risen dead to where he is. There are no other verses that indicate going "up" to heaven or going to heaven for that matter...

james2ko · Sep 3, 2016

moorea944 said:
The org. text is not "caught up' it is snatched or taken away. "Caught up:" is a translation error. Where is Christ going to be when he returns? On earth, to "set up": a kingdom. We will meet him with the risen dead to where he is. There are no other verses that indicate going "up" to heaven or going to heaven for that matter...

This topic has always been of interest. Pegg (a knowledgeable, inactive JW member of this forum) and I discussed it in depth some time ago. JW's believe Christ will rule during the millennium from heaven. I pointed out to her that is certainly not what scripture indicates. She dismissed those scriptures as merely symbolic, but could not explain their symbolism relative to the return of Christ.

Nevertheless, I agree. Earth, not heaven, seems to be our final resting place with Messiah. It seems this meeting in the air is a temporary pit stop in order to fulfill Revelation 15:2-3; Revelation 19:7-9--the marriage supper. After a short period of time, they will descend, dwell, and rule with Christ on the earth (Revelation 19:11,14;Obadiah 1:21;Zechariah 14:5; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; ; Revelation 20:4)

URAVIP2ME · Sep 3, 2016

Muffled said:
I don't believe there is any evidence to support this view. I believe those alive will be raptured.
I Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Thank you for your reply. You are Not alone in your thinking.
First, any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:50 because ' flesh ' ( physical bodies ) can Not inherit the kingdom.
To me, once Jesus died then the world would see him No more as mentioned at John 14:19.
Jesus is residing in heaven - Revelation 3:12; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 9:24
When was Jesus ' caught up ' in the clouds ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 1:9 ) but only ' after ' he was resurrected.
Jesus was resurrected as ' first'fruits from the sleeping dead - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23
To me, first fruits shows rank and numerical order as to who will be resurrected first after Jesus - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10
Any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:22 because to me it is saying that in Adam ALL die........ - Hebrews 9:27
Since we are ALL sinners - Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23 - and death is the price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7 - then in order to enter heaven one would have to have a resurrection from the dead.
Since the world will behold or see Jesus No more, then Christ's descending would be in the same sense as God descending to Earth as mentioned at 2 Samuel 22:10 and Micah 1:3. God does Not leave heaven, but God did and does and will turn his attention to earth's affairs.
Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' ( Matthew 25:40 ) are the ' we who are alive ' alive on Earth at the time of Matthew 25:31-33 and will be ' caught up ' ( resurrected meaning they will Not spend time in death's sleep - 1 Corinthians 15:52), whereas the humble 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth, and can continue living on Earth right into the start of Day One of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Even if you do Not agree, at least I hope you will see there are reasons why I think 1st Thessalonians is talking about resurrection.

djhwoodwerks · Sep 5, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
Thank you for your reply. You are Not alone in your thinking.
First, any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:50 because ' flesh ' ( physical bodies ) can Not inherit the kingdom.
To me, once Jesus died then the world would see him No more as mentioned at John 14:19.
Jesus is residing in heaven - Revelation 3:12; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 9:24
When was Jesus ' caught up ' in the clouds ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 1:9 ) but only ' after ' he was resurrected.
Jesus was resurrected as ' first'fruits from the sleeping dead - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23
To me, first fruits shows rank and numerical order as to who will be resurrected first after Jesus - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10
Any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:22 because to me it is saying that in Adam ALL die........ - Hebrews 9:27
Since we are ALL sinners - Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23 - and death is the price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7 - then in order to enter heaven one would have to have a resurrection from the dead.
Since the world will behold or see Jesus No more, then Christ's descending would be in the same sense as God descending to Earth as mentioned at 2 Samuel 22:10 and Micah 1:3. God does Not leave heaven, but God did and does and will turn his attention to earth's affairs.
Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' ( Matthew 25:40 ) are the ' we who are alive ' alive on Earth at the time of Matthew 25:31-33 and will be ' caught up ' ( resurrected meaning they will Not spend time in death's sleep - 1 Corinthians 15:52), whereas the humble 'sheep' can remain alive on Earth, and can continue living on Earth right into the start of Day One of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Even if you do Not agree, at least I hope you will see there are reasons why I think 1st Thessalonians is talking about resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (ESV Strong's) Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

If Jesus comes at 2:00 today, is He going to kill everyone on earth so we can be "resurrected from the dead"?

djhwoodwerks · Sep 5, 2016

URAVIP2ME said:
Since we are ALL sinners - Romans 5:12; Romans 3:23 - and death is the price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23; Romans 6:7 - then in order to enter heaven one would have to have a resurrection from the dead.

URAVIP2ME said:
Even if you do Not agree, at least I hope you will see there are reasons why I think 1st Thessalonians is talking about resurrection.

What the 'slave' of the witnesses don't want it's members to know is, here is the resurrection of people that are still "alive".

Colossians 2:9-14 (ESV Strong's) 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

Isn't this a resurrection?

Romans 6:1-4 (ESV Strong's) 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Or this,

Romans 6:5-11 (ESV Strong's) 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

URAVIP2ME · Sep 5, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (ESV Strong's) Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

If Jesus comes at 2:00 today, is He going to kill everyone on earth so we can be "resurrected from the dead"?

The ' we ' are Jesus' brothers - 1 Corinthians 15:50; Matthew 25:40 ( those classed as spiritual brothers )

Please notice the figurative ' sheep' of Matthew 25:31-33 are Not dead sheep, they are Not killed - Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 26:20
It is only those who are 'already dead' who can have a resurrection.
Those classed as Jesus' brothers ' will have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven. They are dead and will be' raised '(resurrected) immortal.
The rest of the dead, except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, will have a healthy physical resurrection - Matthew 5:5
Was Adam offered immortality? If he was, then Adam could have never died. Adam was offered: everlasting life on Earth.
So, the majority of people will have the same opportunity that was originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Most people can gain everlasting life on Earth ( live forever on Earth ) as long as keeping God's Law.
Those already dead via resurrection will be back to life on Earth, and the living ' sheep ' can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

cataway · Sep 5, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
What the 'slave' of the witnesses don't want it's members to know is, here is the resurrection of people that are still "alive".]

lol ....I half expected REVELATION 20:5 to be used

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