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Creation of Universe according to Bible & Quran

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
I don't understand?

I said that Darwin didn't know about DNA and genetics, and you said that if he had he never would have come up with his theory because our science today has proved it wrong. However, if this is true, then our current ideas about DNA and genetics are wrong.

well you may be right but the name of that theory is darwin's theory of evolution

Darwin's theory of natural selection.

what I understand the theory is a mistake which has been done delibrately by the scientist who says There is no God.
we Muslims also say There is no godbut we also say But Allah.

So you are saying that all of science today is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?

Oh...kay..... :sarcastic

If science is so wrong, how do you explain all those things that operate on scientific principles?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sorry to pop up in here but i find this thread so interesting and even though i don't want to go off topic but just to answer some issues that arise i have some thoughts to share with you.

Green Kepi said:
Here is my "biggest" reason for not believing in Islam: My Bible in Galatians 1:8 - tells me that if an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than that one the Apostles taught, he is to be eternally condemned (the original wordage is, "let him go to hell". Well...(correct me if I am wrong), did not Mohammed claim to have received differential visions from the angel, Gabriel? Not only does this apply to Mohammed, Joseph Smith (Mormons) said another angel gave him visions. Okay...even if they did...I'm taught not to believe them.

Who said so?

It's Paul but not Jesus ...

1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Galatians 1:1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galatians 1:10

joeboonda said:
This shows that Mohammad CHANGED Holy Scripture. Just like he lied and said Jesus did not die on the cross, which is EXACTLY what Jesus said He came here to do, to die to pay for our sins as a free gift, because He loves us.

Jesus came to die for our sins?

Did Jesus said so? No, Paul said so.

Let's see now the words before Paul came to existance:

We can see in (John 1:20-21):

1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? and he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
and:
1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet.

Let's study now and focus more and what did Jesus say about Mohamed.

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (HOLY BIBLE) John 16:7

" And remember, 'Isa, the son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said, "This is evident sorcery! " (Holy Quran) surah saf 16:6

But the Comforter, Which is The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (Emphasis added).

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 26

You do not have to be a Bible scholar of any calibre to sense that the expression "which is the Holy Spirit" is actually an interpolation. It ought to be in parenthesis, in brackets, like my words which have been interpolated in the quotation, i.e. "(emphasis added)." Although the editors of the RSV have expunged dozens of interpolations from their boasted Revised Standard Version, they have retained this jarring phrase which contradicts other explicit predictions of Jesus (pbuh) on the subject of the Comforter itself.

The same John, who is supposed to have authored the Gospel bearing his name, also penned three more Epistles which are also part of the Christian Bible. Amazingly he has used the same terminology of "Holy Spirit" for "Holy Prophet."

Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they

are of God; because many false Prophets are gone out into the World.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 1

You can observe that the word spirit is used here synonymously with a prophet. A true spirit is a true prophet.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 2

Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come. . He will guide you into all truth:

for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall

He speak: and He will show you things to come.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 13

We discussed this in a pervious thread in details with all the evidences from both sides and from the OT and NT as well.

It called: Mohammed in the bible.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19750


Peace ... :)
 
Tiberius said:
So you are saying that all of science today is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?

Oh...kay..... :sarcastic
if you put evolution instead of science in your above statement

like this

So you are saying that all of evolution today is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?

then I will say yes you are right.
 

Defij

Member
Ali Ansari said:
you are right if you put evolution instead of science in your above statement

like this

So you are saying that all of evolutiontoday is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?
then I will say yes you are right.

How so?! How does evolution have anything to do with God or religion? I still haven't got an answer to this question. As a Christian, science has nothing to do with my faith. Why should it? They are two mutually exclusive fields of study. Religion and Science have nothing to do with each other.

I love science. If I wasn't like a year away from graduating, I'd seriously think about changing my major to something in the field of science, perhaps astronomy. I love science! It's a great field to study, to learn from, it's great. However, it has nothing to do with my faith, except to show me how awesome God is. I do believe God is the cause of the entire universe. How that happened, I have no idea, neither does science. I hope science one day figures it all out, that would be awesome.

But evolution is a fact. It’s happened. It is still happening today. If you don't want to call it "evolution" call it "adaptation". And who says God can't use or create evolution!? Why does evolution seem to be the antithesis of God? I just can't understand this. Personally, I feel this type of mentality is very disrespectful towards God. Basically you are saying that God can not use evolution, either because God is not capable of doing it or because you don't want Him to, thereby telling God what to do. I don't know about you, but I sure as heck don't want to be telling God what and how to do things. Just let God be God, and stop worrying about "evolution".
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
if you put evolution instead of science in your above statement

like this

So you are saying that all of evolution today is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?

then I will say yes you are right.

And how is it that despite the fact that you obviously have knowledge that proves that evolution is completely false, no one has ever been able to give proof about this that causes the scientists supporting evolution to say, "Well, gosh darn, you got us, it all has been a bit of a jape on our part"?

Why, if evolution is so obviously falsifiable, has it never been falsified?

Defij said:
As a Christian, science has nothing to do with my faith. Why should it? They are two mutually exclusive fields of study. Religion and Science have nothing to do with each other.

They do have a lot to do with each other when they are both providing explanations of how life started!
 
Defij said:
How so?! How does evolution have anything to do with God or religion? I still haven't got an answer to this question. As a Christian, science has nothing to do with my faith. Why should it? They are two mutually exclusive fields of study. Religion and Science have nothing to do with each other.

I love science. If I wasn't like a year away from graduating, I'd seriously think about changing my major to something in the field of science, perhaps astronomy. I love science! It's a great field to study, to learn from, it's great. However, it has nothing to do with my faith, except to show me how awesome God is. I do believe God is the cause of the entire universe. How that happened, I have no idea, neither does science. I hope science one day figures it all out, that would be awesome.
I Also love science. science increase my faith in Islam and Quran.
cause there are many scientific facts which are just discovered today Quran mentioned them 1400 years ago in a nutshell.
there is not a single statement of Quran which goes against established science.
But evolution is a fact. It’s happened. It is still happening today. If you don't want to call it "evolution" call it "adaptation". And who says God can't use or create evolution!? Why does evolution seem to be the antithesis of God? I just can't understand this. Personally, I feel this type of mentality is very disrespectful towards God. Basically you are saying that God can not use evolution, either because God is not capable of doing it or because you don't want Him to, thereby telling God what to do. I don't know about you, but I sure as heck don't want to be telling God what and how to do things. Just let God be God, and stop worrying about "evolution".
evolution is not a fact it is a theory. it is theory of evolution not fact of evolution.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
You seem to be using the layman's definition of "theory" (an idea which is yet to be verified) in a scientific context. This can't be done, as the word "Theory" has a differnet meaning when used in a scientific context. it is something which allows us to theorise about what will happen in the future.

We have seen evolution take place. There is a lake in africa that had a part of it isolated from the rest of the lake. The fish in this isolated lake were originally the same species as those in the larger lake, but after several decades (which had allowed for many many generations of fish), the fish were showing distinct differences.

Evolution is a fact. We have examples like these fish which we have observed, and we also have many examples from the fossil record.

And if evolution is wrong, do you have an alternative explanation?

Did God just make Humans fully formed out of nothing? And the same with cats, rabbits, lions, monkeys, whales, sharks, bacteria, trees, snakes, mice, elephants...?

if so, then God must have been creating for a very long time, because the first animals were created many millions of years ago, and yet Humans haven't been around for nearly that long.
 
Tiberius said:
You seem to be using the layman's definition of "theory" (an idea which is yet to be verified) in a scientific context. This can't be done, as the word "Theory" has a differnet meaning when used in a scientific context. it is something which allows us to theorise about what will happen in the future.

We have seen evolution take place. There is a lake in africa that had a part of it isolated from the rest of the lake. The fish in this isolated lake were originally the same species as those in the larger lake, but after several decades (which had allowed for many many generations of fish), the fish were showing distinct differences.

Evolution is a fact. We have examples like these fish which we have observed, and we also have many examples from the fossil record.

And if evolution is wrong, do you have an alternative explanation?

Did God just make Humans fully formed out of nothing? And the same with cats, rabbits, lions, monkeys, whales, sharks, bacteria, trees, snakes, mice, elephants...?

if so, then God must have been creating for a very long time, because the first animals were created many millions of years ago, and yet Humans haven't been around for nearly that long.

Did God just make Humans fully formed out of nothing? And the same with cats, rabbits, lions, monkeys, whales, sharks, bacteria, trees, snakes, mice, elephants...?
Yes God created every thing and human fully formed out of nothing.

Quran says in 6:73

"he it is who created the heavens and the earth in truth. in that day when he saith: Be! it is his word is truth....."

in 16:04
"he hath created man from drop of fluid, yet behold! he an open oponent."

in 16:13
"and whatsoever he hath created for you in the earth of divers hues, lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who take heed."

if so, then God must have been creating for a very long time, because the first animals were created many millions of years ago, and yet Humans haven't been around for nearly that long
I have no objection with this.
 

Defij

Member
Tiberius said:
They do have a lot to do with each other when they are both providing explanations of how life started!

Christianity provides no explanation of "how" life started, nor should it. Science is the field by which the "how" questions get answered, not religion. Religion is not a science and sciecne is not a religion. The Bible is not a science book and "The Origin of Species by means of Natural Selection" is not holy scripture.

I'll leave it up to science alone to figure out "how" life started.
 

Ody

Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
So you are saying that all of evolution today is a conspiracy by atheistic scientists in order to eliminate religion from the world?

then I will say yes you are right.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
The Truth said:
Sorry to pop up in here but i find this thread so interesting and even though i don't want to go off topic but just to answer some issues that arise i have some thoughts to share with you.



Who said so?

It's Paul but not Jesus ...

1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
Galatians 1:1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galatians 1:10



Jesus came to die for our sins?

Did Jesus said so? No, Paul said so.

Let's see now the words before Paul came to existance:

We can see in (John 1:20-21):

1:20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? and he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
and:
1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet.

Let's study now and focus more and what did Jesus say about Mohamed.

"Nevertheless, I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you". (HOLY BIBLE) John 16:7

" And remember, 'Isa, the son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said, "This is evident sorcery! " (Holy Quran) surah saf 16:6

But the Comforter, Which is The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (Emphasis added).

(HOLY BIBLE) John 14: 26

You do not have to be a Bible scholar of any calibre to sense that the expression "which is the Holy Spirit" is actually an interpolation. It ought to be in parenthesis, in brackets, like my words which have been interpolated in the quotation, i.e. "(emphasis added)." Although the editors of the RSV have expunged dozens of interpolations from their boasted Revised Standard Version, they have retained this jarring phrase which contradicts other explicit predictions of Jesus (pbuh) on the subject of the Comforter itself.

The same John, who is supposed to have authored the Gospel bearing his name, also penned three more Epistles which are also part of the Christian Bible. Amazingly he has used the same terminology of "Holy Spirit" for "Holy Prophet."

Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but try the Spirits whether they

are of God; because many false Prophets are gone out into the World.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 1

You can observe that the word spirit is used here synonymously with a prophet. A true spirit is a true prophet.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every Spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
(HOLY BIBLE) 1 John 4: 2

Howbeit when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come. . He will guide you into all truth:

for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall

He speak: and He will show you things to come.

(HOLY BIBLE) John 16: 13

We discussed this in a pervious thread in details with all the evidences from both sides and from the OT and NT as well.

It called: Mohammed in the bible.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19750


Peace ... :)

Jesus said many times that he must die to fulfill the scripture. The Holy Spirit is not Mohammad, not in my Bible, no way, no how.

These are all verses of JESUS talking:

3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
(King James Bible, John)
8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
(King James Bible, John)
12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
(King James Bible, John)
24:25 Then he (Jesus) said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
(King James Bible, Luke)
26:1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 26:2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
8:31 And he (Jesus) began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
(King James Bible, Mark)

These are only a few examples of Christ saying He was to die and rise again. And the Holy Spirit, well, if you actually read all of the New Testament, you will see who He really is, and its not who you think.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Tiberius said:
Can you give me some examples of modern day scientists who have used information from the Bible to make significant discoveries in their fields of study?

BTW, I know quite a few people who believe in God and still accept evolution.

There are many, but how about discoveries concerning germs. Moses had specific commands from God concerning covering pots and bowls etc of food and water of sick people, of washing in running water, of quarantining people outside the camp, of burying their waste outside the camp, etc. etc. The Black Plague was stopped, in Austria I believe because doctors read in the Bible to quarantine folks. It worked. Hospitals where the death rate for mothers having given birth dying a few days later found the answer too. A doctor said they needed to wash their hands between patients, and was laughed out of 2 hospitals, but when one excepted the practice it cut the death rate down by 50%. They had only washed in a bowl, so germs still were transmitted, but when they began to wash in RUNNING water, the death rate was dramaticaly reduced. Nobody had seen or heard of germs until not so very long ago...There are many examples of medical statements in the Bible, time does not permit right now...As far as evolution, yes, I know there are Christians who believe in it, I am not one of those.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
And Moses was a modern scientist? Please read my question properly. I specifically asked for a modern day scientist.

And you seem to think that people are so abysmally stupid that they couldn't figure out that sick people could pass the sickness on to healthy people. We do not need a god to tell us that!

Ali said:
Yes God created every thing and human fully formed out of nothing.

Oh, that's funny, I thought that the Creationists didn't believe in life appearing from nothing, because that's the argument they use when it comes to the amino acids forming the first primitive life.

Oh wait, it just doesn't count when applied to God, does it. Science is easily falsifiable, but when God does the exact same thing, it's all okay, because it's God.

:sarcastic

I have no objection with this.

Even though it contradicts Genesis?

Defij said:
Christianity provides no explanation of "how" life started, nor should it.

Ah, but it does. Christianity says that God is the explanation, and yet our scientific knowledge indicates otherwise.
 
Tiberius said:
Oh, that's funny, I thought that the Creationists didn't believe in life appearing from nothing, because that's the argument they use when it comes to the amino acids forming the first primitive life.
yes God creates every thing without any example.

Oh wait, it just doesn't count when applied to God, does it. Science is easily falsifiable, but when God does the exact same thing, it's all okay, because it's God.
God has power over all the things.

Even though it contradicts Genesis?
is it contradicting with Quran?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
joeboonda said:
its not who you think.

If you noticed my post, i never said he is the holy spirit but just a true spirit from God.

The Comforter is a true spirit but not the holy spirit but in that verse it appears as the comforter is the holy spirit but he is not.

Just my opnion and you don't have to accept it because you know your own faith "Christianity" more than i do about it.

Thanks ... :)
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
And Moses was a modern scientist? Please read my question properly. I specifically asked for a modern day scientist.

And you seem to think that people are so abysmally stupid that they couldn't figure out that sick people could pass the sickness on to healthy people. We do not need a god to tell us that!
I was referring to the advancement in modern medicine over the last 150yrs. And, yes, ppl were that igonrant about it up until scientists actually discovered germs and taught how to prevent them.

If you noticed my post, i never said he is the holy spirit but just a true spirit from God.

The Comforter is a true spirit but not the holy spirit but in that verse it appears as the comforter is the holy spirit but he is not.

Just my opnion and you don't have to accept it because you know your own faith "Christianity" more than i do about it.

Thanks ... :)

No problem, we always call the Holy Spirit the Comforter among other names.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Ali Ansari said:
yes God creates every thing without any example.

So it's fine when God creates things from nothing, yet when Science does exactly the same thing all of a sudden it's impossible?

God has power over all the things.

Can you support this claim with any evidence from a non-religious text?

is it contradicting with Quran?

I'll look into it.

Joe said:
I was referring to the advancement in modern medicine over the last 150yrs. And, yes, ppl were that igonrant about it up until scientists actually discovered germs and taught how to prevent them.

And these examples were?

The Black Death last appeared in 1722, which is about 280 years ago.

Practitioners of medicine in India 3000 years ago using Ayurveda studied pathology, which deals in germs.

BTW, I've yet to see any passage in the Bible that specifically mentions germs or microbes. All I've seen is it saying, "Wash you hands" etc. The fact that people know that washing hands reduces sickness does not mean they know WHY it reduces sickness. All it does is show that they figured out that washing hands reduces sickness for some reason.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Tiberuis...this is not a thread to debate whether the creation actually happened. It is the creation of universe according to the Bible and the Quaran. Not whether it actually happened.
 
Tiberius said:
So it's fine when God creates things from nothing, yet when Science does exactly the same thing all of a sudden it's impossible?
I want ask you what is Science?
you can't compare science with God

I'll look into it.
that is Good
if you find some thing tell me about that.
 
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