I was on an anti-hypocrisy rant, not an anti-JW rant. Are you claiming they’re one and the same?
In what way was I being a hypocrite? You came here with all guns blazing in a rant about Jehovah's Witnesses....you are still hostile. Since this seems to be personal with you, I understand your attitude. It elicited a defensive reaction from me naturally.
All I wanted was an actual JW to tell me how JW’s can look someone in the eye and yell “Apostate!” when the vast majority of members are apostate themselves. Can you enlighten us?
An apostate to us is one who deliberately defects from what he knows or formerly accepted as the truth. From our perspective, one who was never a Christian cannot apostatize.
Since we do not recognize Christendom as ever being a Christian entity, I did not apostatize from Christendom because I understand that I was a Christian in name only under their tutelage. I had no idea what being a Christian meant....I do now, thankfully.
It was you who first brought up the apostate issue in thread 657, so apostasy must be relevant to thread theme. Otherwise, why would you bring it up? Of course, if this was a mistake or error on your part, just let me know.
"The church", starting around the second century, gradually apostatized from what Christ and his apostles taught. That apostasy introduced many false doctrines, not found in original Christianity or in the Jewish religion. By the 4th century, the trinity and the role of the Father, son and the holy spirit was made official church doctrine but it did not originate with Christ; it was adopted from pagan triads, as previous posts demonstrated.
Were you yourself born into a JW family or are you an apostate? If you were not born a JW, then at some time you both renounced your former religion, agnosticism, or atheism and became an apostate member of the Organization. It’s either one or the other, or you’re not a member at all.
That is your version of events...not mine. I chose to leave the church system in my twenties because I saw no Christianity being practiced there. I saw a man who was the "minister" of my church more concerned about the money his parishioners put in the collection plate every Sunday than he was about promoting Christ's teachings or being the least bit interested in his congregation members personally.
I saw support for every political conflict with clergy actively preaching young people into the war effort as their Christian duty.
I saw "friendship with the world" more than I saw friendship with Christ. (James 4:4)
I wandered about in other denominations thinking that maybe it was just my church that was like this...but they were all the same, just wearing different labels. I left the church long before JW's found me.
I know my cousin has been a Jehovah Witness for 43 years, and he assures me that all true Jehovah Witnesses are united in their beliefs. A good friend who is 47 years a JW tells me that if I want the official policy of the JW’s I can read the WT or go to Watchtower.org. They also tell me there are many “so-called Witnesses” on the internet who misrepresent their beliefs. Since your statement there are no prophets in “Jehovah’s organization” is at obvious odds with the Watchtower’s own publicized statements on the matter, it seemed prudent to mention to the unwary reader that you may be mispresenting your private interpretations for those of the Watchtower.
I assure you I do not misrepresent our beliefs but I have sadly, encountered some who have. This kind of witnessing is not for everyone.
If you have gone apostate with the Organization on the matter of prophets, that’s fine…I have no qualms with someone reading the bible and presenting their views on the subject. In fact, I applaud anyone who does so and is willing to discuss this on the forum. But it’s a different matter when you start using the term “we” and presenting this as the Watchtower’s view also.
What do we know about "prophets" from the Bible? Just so there is no misunderstanding....
"One through whom divine will and purpose are made known. (Luke 1:70; Acts 3:18-21) Although the etymology of the Hebrew term for a prophet (na·viʼʹ) is uncertain, the use of this distinctive term shows that true prophets were no ordinary announcers but were spokesmen for God, ‘men of God’ with inspired messages. (1Ki 12:22; 2Ki 4:9; 23:17) They stood in God’s “intimate group,” and he revealed his “confidential matter” to them.—Jeremiah 23:18; Amos 3:7; 1Kings 17:1.
The Greek pro·pheʹtes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe·miʹ, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Titus 1:12.) Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction. (Compare Judges 6:7-10.) Nonetheless, living in harmony with God’s will requires that the individual know what Jehovah’s revealed purposes for the future are so that he may bring his ways, desires, and goals into line with the divine will. Hence, in the great majority of cases, the Biblical prophets did convey messages that were, directly or indirectly, related to the future." (from Insight Volume 2)
Prophets in the nation of Israel were men of God who spoke with inspired messages directly from him; their words are recorded as part of the Hebrew scriptures....likewise the ones who were prophets in the Christian congregation all had a connection to Jesus and their inspired writings form part of the Christian scriptures.
There is no more prophesy, ( 1 Corinthians 13:8) so therefore no true prophets dwell amongst us today in that sense. However when we convey prophesy that is already contained in the scriptures, we become "proclaimers" of the message in a different sense. The message itself is recorded in scripture and we carry it to the people in our preaching and teaching work. In that sense we carry on the work of the prophets, of whom Jesus was the foremost. So we may be "prophets" in the Greek sense, but not in the Hebrew sense of the word. IOW we do not originate prophesy, but proclaim what is already written in God's word to others.
I understand what you’re saying Deeje, but what I’m looking for is the new thought that renounced the old thought that “They shall know a prophet was among them”. Simply point us to the relevant WT article or link. Otherwise we can accept your assertion for what it is…an erroneous, apostate, or intentionally misleading statement.
There is no new thought on that, other than what I have explained. There is no case to answer because you misunderstand the reason for the question. Figuratively speaking, when "the end" comes people will know that there were those who came to warn them according to the Bible's prophesy about the end times, but they failed to take any notice. (Matthew 24:14; 37-39)
Again, who is this “us”? That’s the problem I am having. Do you represent people inside or outside the Organization who disagree with the Watchtower on this important issue?
Also, can you answer my questions since I’ve taken the time to answere all of yours?
I see rhetoric like this as just making mischief where there isn't an issue. If you don't understand the way we see the scriptures, then what is there to say? Nothing will satisfy you.
If our message fails to resonate with you, then so be it. Go in peace, we have nothing more to tell you.
We don't force our views on anyone but we will tell the truth as we see it, and those who respond will come to understand more than they ever thought possible. I know that for every question I had there were a hundred more to ask....I got answers to all of them. I am still learning.
