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What have we done to deserve this ?

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Yaquub;

Really..??....Seems you must be reading a different book to the rest then..here are some examples to show you (all) clearly the agenda here..

Pretty clear really - convert ALL none muslims - or DESTROY all none muslims - no middle ground..Thas direct from your "holy book" yes..??....And this next is what your leaders interpret it to mean.

And again - that REALLY clear and undeniable - muslims ARE ordered to force conversion or destroy ALL none believers !!

These verses are specific to the context in which they were revealed. They do not apply to all time and every place. The Holy Qur'aan is very clear that we should only kill if necessary in self-defence, if we are attacked first. So this notion of convert or die has no basis in Islaam.

As for the Ahaadeeth (your reference to 'what your leaders interpret it to mean'), many of these are also context-specific and some are not authentic.

Now, you may say that the above are my interpretations, that I don't understand my Holy Book or my religion, or that I am just trying to avoid that which I am uncomfortable with. Sure. All of that may be true. But that means there is at least one Muslim who doesn't believe in this notion of convert or die. The likes of IS or al-Qaeda or the Taliban do interpret these verses and sayings in the vein of convert, pay the Jizyah (dubbed by critics, 'submission tax') or die. Sure, some Muslims have that interpretation. But you will find many, many of us, both scholars (who know their Qur'aan and Sharee'ah) and 'regular' Muslims (not all of whom do), who either openly condemn such senseless violence or might not do so openly, but do not believe this is Islaam and just want to go about their daily life like everyone else. So whether you think we are following our Holy Book or not, there are plenty of people who call themselves Muslims (I would say the vast majority of us), who do not fit the caricature you have painted of us above.
 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
That is awful. To be fair, there is a problem with Hindu religious fanaticism

This, I agree. This is why I am absolutely NOT ok with those far right Hindu groups at all. Their only answer to gratuitous violence is gratuitous violence. It is both against their own religion and common sense.

and mosques and churches have been vandalized and destroyed.
I did not know for the churches, however, it's complicated about the mosque. Many, MANY mosque in India are built on hindu temples, or with the remnants (stones, decorations) of Hindu temples. It is stirring a lot of controversy as Hindus slowly discover the amplitude of their cultural massacre, and want to reclaim it.
I do not agree with what they do, let us be clear on that. Just saying that there is a bit of shady stories behind that, and that it is not a one side blame.

Sometimes they try to force Christians and Muslims to convert to Hinduism.

It is against the core spirit of Hinduism to force conversion. Proselytizing and force conversion are a big no no, in fact, if you express interest in becoming Hindu, most Hindu reactions will be to respectfully tell you to go back to your root or family religion.

I've heard, however, of re-conversion to Hinduism, especially in villages.

In many villages, the tension between minorities have become so present, that their only answer is being weary, hateful and violent. Is that a good answer to the problem ? Certainly not. We are in total agreement that there is nastiness on all side, however, I will not cry for the idiots poking the dog and getting bitten. I will not blame the dog for biting the others idiots behind the poking idiot because it grew violent from all the wounds. That doesn't means I will praise the dog, I'll just shake my head as both sides get entangled into neverending beating fest. But I will not cry or be gentle with the idiot who repeatedly poked the dog in the first place.

Destruction, deaths, threats and all those horrible things you see happen DAILY to Hindu. They have NO help, not even from the police or government, because minorities religions have all kind of favors from the states and administrations, they are practically immune and not stopped in doing those nasty things, they get away daily with it.

This year, a temple go vandalized in south asian country for the kittyllion time again. The temple officials told they TRIED to do something, to reach for the police to catch the vandals, nothing was done. He warned them that last time it happened, after weeks of people from the Hindu community resorted to hiding in the temple with weapons to kill the perpetrators themselves.
Is that a solution ? No.
Do I agree or take side ? No, I don't, and I won't. I am even considered an idiot by many people here because I defended harassed muslims on the streets here. And I find it absolutely awful to hear the rascists comments they have to take and swallow everyday.

This violence is born from despair. From people that are exhausted in having their lives and communities destroyed and torn apart, and they have no resort because hey, corrupt officials and no touchy touchy minorities.

By forgetting or overlooking it, nobody can help or find a solution to end this circle of violence.



I will just leave this here again :

Hate leading to hate and bringing more violence and more blood, in a vicious circle where everyone is pointing fingers at everyone and it never ends. It is an absolute sterile way to think and to act.

The other day in a Canne's beach, a muslim woman was harassed by the police and a mob of people because she was wearing a simple hijab. She was sitting on the sand with her crying daughter, and had to withstand rascists and extremists insults, she was given a fine for improper attire, and told to get out of the beach.

Yesterday, just below my window, I heard a guy screaming. He was going to the bank for a deposit, and got insulted because he was muslim. The dude was screaming insults, half crying, asking what did he do and that we did not know Islam.

Tell me Pete, is that fair ? Is that helping in any way ? Isn't attacking muslims like that that literally did absolutely nothing to you going to help and not make them side with the barbaric idiots that keeps telling them "see, they don't want you, come join us" ?

Aum Namah Shivaya
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Bangladesh is a poor country all around. If this happened in resource filled countries, the western powers would do more. As it stands, the anti-Hindu crowd can do what they wish. The only choice, if possible, its to run to India or elsewhere as refugees, but that too is hard. In most other places of Islam majority, it is tough, but not impossible. Still, both Indonesia and Malaysia are getting worse.
 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
Still, both Indonesia and Malaysia are getting worse.

Vanakkam, Ji

Yes, this is getting worse at an alarming rate. Even a muslim friend in Mumbai tried to keep her teen daughter in check... Her daughter wanted to fly to Malaysia to enter an extremist Islamic camp there. Apparently they are becoming more and more common and virulent there.

Friends in Tamil Nadu tell me that it is also getting worse in rural south India too.

Aum Namah Shivaya
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Vanakkam, Ji

Yes, this is getting worse at an alarming rate. Even a muslim friend in Mumbai tried to keep her teen daughter in check... Her daughter wanted to fly to Malaysia to enter an extremist Islamic camp there. Apparently they are becoming more and more common and virulent there.

Friends in Tamil Nadu tell me that it is also getting worse in rural south India too.

Aum Namah Shivaya
I also think they're (the radical Islamists) 'running scared' and when someone is scared they will resort to some awful stuff. Back when we went to Mauritius for 3 months, Malaysia was also a choice, but some friends in high [places, if you get my drift, advised Mauritius.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
This, I agree. This is why I am absolutely NOT ok with those far right Hindu groups at all. Their only answer to gratuitous violence is gratuitous violence. It is both against their own religion and common sense.

It is against the core spirit of Hinduism to force conversion. Proselytizing and force conversion are a big no no, in fact, if you express interest in becoming Hindu, most Hindu reactions will be to respectfully tell you to go back to your root or family religion.

In many villages, the tension between minorities have become so present, that their only answer is being weary, hateful and violent. Is that a good answer to the problem ? Certainly not. We are in total agreement that there is nastiness on all side, however, I will not cry for the idiots poking the dog and getting bitten. I will not blame the dog for biting the others idiots behind the poking idiot because it grew violent from all the wounds. That doesn't means I will praise the dog, I'll just shake my head as both sides get entangled into neverending beating fest. But I will not cry or be gentle with the idiot who repeatedly poked the dog in the first place.
This is turning into a different kind of question about the way to respond to force. I can understand that you respect peace, but do you not believe in fighting, too? This is a question that occurs to me, sometimes about India's religions. You have an army, and you have planes and ships in your country. The stories of the gods sometimes have wars in them. The entire thing is puzzling to me. You seem extreme to me, refusing to eat meat; and yet you are made of meat. I know of no person who is made of vegetables no matter how strict their diet. I know of no country that is not warlike, either; and I know of no religion which has not resisted interference. In history there have been a few individuals who decided that poop was evil, and so they decided not to do it anymore and died for refusing. Is this not similar to what you are doing?
 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
This is turning into a different kind of question about the way to respond to force. I can understand that you respect peace, but do you not believe in fighting, too? This is a question that occurs to me, sometimes about India's religions. You have an army, and you have planes and ships in your country. The stories of the gods sometimes have wars in them. The entire thing is puzzling to me. You seem extreme to me, refusing to eat meat; and yet you are made of meat. I know of no person who is made of vegetables no matter how strict their diet. I know of no country that is not warlike, either; and I know of no religion which has not resisted interference. In history there have been a few individuals who decided that poop was evil, and so they decided not to do it anymore and died for refusing. Is this not similar to what you are doing?

Vanakkam

I cannot answer this by speaking for Hindus or Hinduism in general. There are as much different Hindus as there are different grain of sands on a beach, so I can only answer as a single person who is hindu, not vegetarian, and not against fighting.

What I try to say is:

You are from community A. Extremists from community B come and burns your house, murder your priests and **** on your holy stuff.
You get angry, goes to the house of a totally random and innocent person from community B, and you beat him and his whole family to death as a revenge.
People from community B gets angry. Extremists vandalize again community A's places.
You gather people from community A and goes on a rampage to the community B's neighbourhood.

It is fighting, right ? Yet, is it the right way to solve the problem ? Extremists from B will keep destroying stuff and getting power, recruits and support from community B because people from B are being attacked by fed up and desperate community A's people. The police and authorities ? They watch with popcorn and takes the biggest money coming under the table.

There are other ways and means to "fight". People MUST act and not stay idle, whatever the situation is, but the most difficult thing is to actually THINK and act with wisdom instead of impulse.

People should look at others as human beings before any other label. People perpetrating these are not muslims/christian/hindus/kittens, they are human beings doing illegal and horrible stuff, they should be treated as criminals and not as muslims/christian/hindus/kittens.

A fight where innocent people are being attacked, raped, killed without any reason and have their lives made hell just because some scumbags claiming to share their religion or whatever poor excuse do terrible things, I do not call that a fight. It's an unfair massacre.

There are other means to fight than just mindless violence.

Aum Namah Shivaya
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Let's just be very clear that this section of the forum is strictly no debating before any of this escalates.

If you have a response to a certain post, kindly make a thread in the Religious Debates section and link it down below.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
It's not what you have done, it's what you might do.

Mara ... is the demon that tempted Gautama Buddha... Mara personifies unwholesome impulses, unskillfulness, the "death"[2] of the spiritual life. She is a tempter, distracting humans from practising the spiritual life by making mundane things alluring, or the negative seem positive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_(demon)
Umm, excuse me, but what does a demon have to do with religious people having their holy places vandalized exactly?
 

Cassandra

Active Member
Hi Folks...

Jaya; Im really sorry for your troubles my friend..Understand - its not Hindus as such - its EVERYONE none muslim - THEY are the problem - NOT the Hindus - not the Christians who despite their differences BOTh religions are tolerant and compassionate mostly - but this "islam" is not like other religigions at all...

As I have just posted elsewhere here - there is simply NO WAY TO LIVE WITH MUSLIMS - and REMAIN a none muslim - they are ORDERED to either convert you or destroy you - it is their whole religious agenda to make EVERYONE a muslim without any exceptions....They will keep attacking you in this vicious manner unttl you bow down - they will treat you in all manner of despicable nasty and outright evil ways to force you to either move away, pay them to stop or convert - if you resist or if they are able to do so, then they WILL MURDER YOU just for your your NONE muslim belief - and yes Folks it really is that simple...They are ORDERED to do it like a mandate direct from their "god" so this is a holy command to enslave the world, basically and your people as none muslims are now casualties of their agenda ..
You come here to sow hate. There is no telling who these people are and even less who are steering them. This might be foreign Muslims or non-Muslims. USA have a close relation with Saudi Arabia who sponsors these groups, and a close relation to Pakistan. Several secret services use radical Muslim groups like Al Qaeda and IS.

So it would be foolish to let Hindus be turned against Muslims. Christians did this before when they ruled India remember. Not all is what it seems. So why don't Christians stop your own unethical conversion practices instead?

Christians won't because all Abrahamic religions are enemies to Hinduism.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Vanakkam,

Please read the answers on the whole thread before listing this kind of thing.

This isn't the point nor useful to anyone

Aum Namah Shivaya
There is variaty answsers , most of them Anti-Muslims and generalizing.
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
Vanakkam,

There is not a single week where I do not hear about destroyed temples, vandalized murtis, priests killed, forced conversions and forced marriage of hindu girls...

I am really, really sick of it.

I am sick to see these on the news. So look at those with me:

2-62.png

March-01_hindu-temple-in-bangladesh.jpg

422602_381511135192432_100000006452697_1447857_1555197090_n.jpg


A-minority-Hindu-women-crying-after-her-house-and-local-temple-were-destroyed-by-Extremists.jpg



Look at those too, because this is NEVER talked about, it happens almost daily now and NOBODY cares, not even the police, nothing happens. Nobody helps or even acknowledge that it is happening.
But should a Hindu raise a hand on a Muslim, OH BEWARE, this is hate and certainly not self defense.


Hindu_temple_idols_destroyed_by_Muslim_mob.jpg

Kishorganj+Temple+Destruction+2013.jpg



Now what do I want ? I want the answer of this, very, single, question :

What have we (Hindus) done to deserve this ?


Are we waging war or terrorizing people around the world ? No. Are we forcing people to convert or proselytizing actively ? No. Are we discriminating against other religions ? No. Are we claiming that we are the only ones to hold some kind of truth and dismiss other religions as false ? No. Do we even discriminate against atheists ? No.

So what ?

Tell me, really, I want to know what horrible things me and my Hindu bothers and sisters have done. I want to hear a good reason, really, am open to understand what is so ****ing wrong with us to deserve such gratuitous hate and destruction.


Aum Namah Shivaya

:alien: its almost the desame as what were goin through now
and thats why i also ask
how this could happen that some of my brethren were been a victim of . . . ...
when all we want is to have peace and share some thoughts and ideas
whether someone approaved it then thanks be to god and all to the merciful and if not thanks be to god again
and lets us help those who needs mercy
and not to do any abominable things such as those which is not meant for any humans to disrespect someone's belief and faith or
even worst than those
pictures which are represented here by one of our fellow human
let us not do which is beyond any human comprehension and what we mean by this is dont act like an animal be a human

as they say
For, brethren, all of you have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.


:ty:



godbless
unto all always
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I doubt that they burn temples or force conversions.
Were they in majority, they would have done this. They make 3% of the Indian population. But Christians in some tribal regions of Orissa and Jharkhand have forced people to become Christians. Their method has been social boycott.
This is a question that occurs to me, sometimes about India's religions. You have an army, and you have planes and ships in your country. The stories of the gods sometimes have wars in them.
72% of Hindus are non-vegetarians. We are avoiding this to the best we can. But Muslims can force us to do this. Even Krishna was sent to Kauravas a hundred times before the beginning of the Mahabharata war to settle disputes. But it ended in a war.Yes, we have the third largest army in the world, tanks, planes, missiles, ships, submarines, the bomb, whatever is needed; and it is improving with time. So, we should not be tempted.
Seems Hindu never ever attack the Muslims in india ?
You forget that it happened after Muslims burnt 59 Hindu pilgrims alive in a rail coach.

The-tale-of-many-lies.jpg
 
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nameless

The Creator
Sometimes they try to force Christians and Muslims to convert to Hinduism.
You got source for this?
So far, christianity and islam are the only receivers of 'hindu fanaticism', jews and Zoroastrians been in india for centuries and they never had experienced any ill treatment from 'hindu fanatics'. I condemn any kind of violence, but still i would say, 'hindu fanaticism' is just a response to the hatred and violence they receive from the other parties, we can't expect everyone to be saint to have tons of patience.
 
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