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Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

ashkat1`

Member
With that out of the way....the trolls know who they are....I was not referring to you.



That is entirely your prerogative. But Jesus and the apostles spoke of them as real human beings so I have no reason to doubt them. (Matthew 19:4-6)



I'd like to know who your teachers are ashkat. You seem pretty confident that they are right, but none of what you say is backed up by anything solid. Without backup it is just another opinion.

Genesis one and two are not incompatible at all. One is a step by step account in order of events and the other is a summation of the history, filling in the blanks so to speak but not necessarily keeping the same order.



Again, I have to ask...who said?



So you believe that God is the Creator but he used evolution to do the job? Where is your proof of this assertion? I have studied evolution but realized that there was too much guesswork and not enough hard evidence. I don't view adaptation within a species as proof of organic evolution.



I am amazed at these deductions ashkat....are they yours? Or did somebody else come to these conclusions and you just actually agree with them?


Romans 5:12:
"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—" (ESV)

I am not sure what "through and through" means in your estimations.....but no one escapes death so its pretty certain that sin producing death is all through the human race.



Defeatist? Are you serious? The Bible holds out the most wonderful future for those who are not defeated by the evil of this world and its perpetrators. We have to look past all that to what is promised.

Revelation 21:1-5:
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away. (ESV)

5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

This is the future for those who do not lose their faith or defect to baseless opinions. There is a heavenly government with earthly subjects.



There is no teaching in the NT that supports Jesus being anything but "the son of God". This has all been hashed and rehashed many times before.
The NT established the Deity of Christ, which is why the Trinity has been and is central tenet in Christian teaching.
You asked about my teachers. The ones I had were excellent. I initially thought of doing my doctorate in biblical studies, because I am good with languages, but then decided on theology. So, I have a strong graduate-level background in biblical studies to draw upon. I said Genesis provides. two conflicting accounts, because, as I pointed out, their chronologies seriously conflict. You cannot read Gen. 2 as an extension of 1, as nothing in Gen. 2 refers back to Gen. 1. Some have attempted to bludgeon it into so doing, by reading certain passages in 2 in the pluperfect, but Hebrew has no pluperfect tense. Also, the literacy styles are very different. P, author of Gen. 1, is liturgical, likes lists. J, author of 2, is narrative. Hence, 2 was written before Gen. 1, as narrative form predates the liturgical.

The reason why evolution is the centerpiece in modern science is that it is one of the best-supported theories in science. If you think there isn't any hard evidence, then I suggest you do some more homework on the subject. We have moved from seeing reality as essentially static realm of independent facts to appreciating reality as dynamic and interrelated. Some believers have had trouble with this switch and then has desperately tried to attack evolution. The reason is that the classical picture of God as he is in his own nature was based largely on Hellenic substance philosophy, which necessitated seeing God as wholly immutable. God does not change and does neither does the universe. This classical model, however, is now viewed as lopsided and a neo-classical model of God is available, which enables one to appreciate God as a synthesis of both consistency and change. Consider that about 100 passages in Scripture speak of God as changing, e.g., Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11:8.

If you object to something I have to say, then you need to provide a solid rebuttal. Asking me who taught me that or who my teachers were is not a solid way to go in a discussion.
 

ashkat1`

Member
My apologies, I did misread your post.



Ah, now we are getting somewhere. I see now where your ideas come from.... Paul warned about taking the words of philosophers as gospel truth.

Colossians 2:8:
"Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ"....it is a trap for the unwary and the spiritually unconvinced.

Since scripture was provided that suggests that the early Christians did indeed understand that their God was an immaterial "invisible" being, I am not sure that "spiritual" didn't mean "immaterial" to them when coming to terms with their promise of a heavenly inheritance. The word "spirit" means breath or wind....something entirely invisible. And since "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom" they knew that death "in the flesh" meant a resurrection "in the spirit" as Jesus received.

The fact God is seen as invisible does not mean God is immaterial. Breath and wind are invisible, yet physical objects. The whole body of Christ was resurrected and transformed somehow. Flesh and blood are not the only kind of body there could be. Paul says we'll receive new bodies.

Paul's remarks about philosophers is not relevant to our discussion. Granted, some Christians go on an anti-intellectual rant and abuse Paul by claiming he is saying all the philosophers and scholars are worthless. etc. However, that is snot quite what Paul meant. The Greco-Roman world was very anti-Semitic. Hence, it could be very difficult for you to maintain your Jewish identity if you got involved with the academies and scholars; the latter generally viewed the Jews as a barbaric people. Also, Paul is of the opinion that there will soon be a Second Coming and so Jesus will be here to educate everyone and straighten everything out. When that didn't happen, the church faced a dilemma. If it was to survive, it would have to attract the educated classes. Also there were many questions being asked that were not addressed in Scripture. The Trinity, for example, was strongly implied In Scripture,. but not worked out in any detail. Hence, the church incorporated much Hellenic philosophy. In order to grow and survive, it had to.
 

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
Depending on the role he is playing, he assumes the name along with the role because a name in the Bible has deep meaning. Names aren't just labels, so the pre-human Jesus filled quite a few different roles and a name was attached to each one them.
Then that would mean Jesus pre-exist as the Word. So you are saying that in the beginning, there is Archangel Michael that exists because there is the Word who became man-Jesus. May I ask if when He (Jesus) is the Archangel Michael, and when He (Jesus) is the Word?by Yoshua

Deeje, I see how you explained your answers with the questions that throws to you, but this my question is asking a clear identification of the question “when He (Jesus) is the Archangel Michael, and when He (Jesus) is the Word?”o_O

It didn’t answered, and flipped back the question by answering “depending on the role he is playing.”:eek:
Does the Bible teach that the “Holy Spirit” is a person?
Yes. It is because the HS convicts, grieves and speaking. Does a force grieves, convicts and speaking??:shrug:

If you don’t want the word “person,” then you may not use it. A person (personal) is just used to connote that it is alive and personal, living, and not dead--as impersonal.
Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit (“Holy Ghost,” KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa·raʹkle·tos; “Comforter,” KJ; “Advocate,” JB, NE) that ‘teaches,’ ‘bears witness,’ ‘speaks’ and ‘hears.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were “filled” with holy spirit, that some were ‘baptized’ with it or “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God’s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood. (See also pages 380, 381, under the heading “Spirit.”)
I fully agree that the whole text should be considered, and I appreciate that. You added it as helper, comforter, bears witness and hears. Then, filled, baptized and anointed. If you say the latter do not fit to a person then you rejecting your stated examples (helper, comforter, bears witness and hears). Therefore, how come that you say that the whole text should be considered, and then you did not consider the attributes that the HS had (helper, comforter, bears witness and hears)?:rolleyes: I can say that there would be a bias of understanding, inconsistency and contradiction if that would be the JW’s understanding.:(
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.
It is not about the name, it’s about the attributes of the Holy Spirit were the same with the Father and the Son.
The Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father—Jehovah. They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ. But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.
Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw “Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. (See also Revelation 7:10; 22:1, 3.)
The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: “The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.” (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: “The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.”—Vol. XIV, p. 296." (Reasoning from the Scriptures)
This is what the literature booklet feeding the JW’s about the errors of Trinity. Why don’t you check the whole passage or the whole description? Did you know that (almost) a lot of quotes written are cut and incomplete?:rolleyes: They are lies instead of truth. Do you think that the Roman Catholics diverted and changed their major doctrine of the Holy Spirit? How come the New Advent website and other Catholic website stick to their view for what the Holy Spirit is?

Can you name who are the Apologist that you are referring here? Who said that?o_O
Wait a sec....Where have I ever said that Michael is the holy spirit? It was the actions of God's spirit that transferred the life force of his son into the womb of Mary. He was born as the man Jesus according to prophesy.
You mentioned that the spirit being became Jesus. This is why I’m asking you above when He is an archangel and when He is Jesus. Then, who is that ”spirit” that you are mentioned?
Not sure I understand this one.....but we have no prophets. So mistakes in timing is an imperfect human issue.
You have no prophets?? Then why prophesy?:eek: and I absolutely sure that there will be a problem because how come that your organization made several prophecies? A human that is not a prophet from God should not prophesy. In the Bible, prophets of God were clearly appointed. There is no human that may prophesy who is not a prophet. I don’t see it as the standard of God to appoint a person, and let him prophesy, and make mistakes. God does not make mistakes. Hope you get my point here.

Thanks:)
 

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
Anything you can quote from this century? Old Watchtowers and publications are like old newspapers, they are not viewed as scripture and never were.

We have never claimed to be prophets. No one is forcing anyone to accept the teachings of the GB. If they are not your slave, then why bother harping on about them.
Let it go.......
choir.gif
the tune is getting old and its all been sung a hundred times.....I think we get it.
Deeje,

Does the Bible says that all Christians are true prophets?

Thanks
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
For me personally the so called holy spirit is nothing more than a level in Consciousness, its the level that we as the body are made, there isn't really such thing as the holy spirit, because we are all One in Consciousness, and in this duality that we are in there is no levels, levels are of the mind.
 

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
No. Understanding is in the minds of the "believers". The light is truth from heaven, it can't mean what you say it means. Understanding grows, but truth stays the same. Does truth change, in your opinion?

The Jehovah's Witness's arrangement has truth changing because to them [it seems] truth and understanding are synonymous. Understanding is a human thing and it is written that we are NOT to lean on it, but truth is Jesus who is light which is the way.

The path (the way, ie Jesus) of the righteous gets brighter and brighter. It means Jesus, who like his Father does not change, gets more real to the believer as the day draws near.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not need Jesus. They have the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is written, Jesus disciples are the light of the world.

JWs say light means understanding. If it does, then you can replace light at Matthew 5:14 with understanding. Is that righteous?

You are the light understanding of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.
Yeah, until now it does not getting brighter.;)
 

Yoshua

Well-Known Member
You are a former JW Shak34 or raised as one? You post like an apostate. Nuff said.

There is no real point in responding to these comments except to alert others to the deceptive nature of them....if you have made up your mind, then so be it. Your avatar says it all.

If we are conveying the prophesies that are already written in the Bible, then what are we? Messengers....the prophesies are not ours, so we are "prophets" by proxy in that case. . Mistakes in the timing are nothing new. The apostles also mistook the timing of the coming of God's kingdom too. (Acts of the Apostles 1:6)

"Keeping on the watch" is something Jesus told us to do (Matthew 24:42)....we make no apology for doing it. In a city, the watchman was to stand guard on the watchtower and raise the alarm if something was spotted on the horizon...if it proved to be a threat, then the people were ready, but if it was a false alarm, everything went back to business as usual. That is how it is with us.

Haters are gonna hate.....faults will always be the focus. See whatever you want to see.
Deeje,

New American Standard Bible
"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

How do you understand this passage?

Thanks
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The NT established the Deity of Christ, which is why the Trinity has been and is central tenet in Christian teaching.

I will have to disagree...there is no trinity in either OT or NT scripture. It is the central teaching of Christendom....NOT Christianity. Never the twain shall meet I'm afraid.
no.gif


If you think that the disunited rabble that passes for Christianity today is remotely similar to the Christianity started by Christ, then I have to wonder at your definition of Christianity. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

You asked about my teachers. The ones I had were excellent. I initially thought of doing my doctorate in biblical studies, because I am good with languages, but then decided on theology. So, I have a strong graduate-level background in biblical studies to draw upon.

Ah, again that explains a lot. There is a reason why Jesus did not choose the wise and intellectual ones of his day who were educated at the accepted schools back then. They taught errors....traditions of men disguised as God's word. Jesus did not have a good thing to say about those men. (Acts 4:13) If the teachers have it wrong...so will all of their students. Imagine.....the whole Jewish system operating in Jesus' day got it wrong about their Messiah. You think it can't happen again?

I said Genesis provides. two conflicting accounts, because, as I pointed out, their chronologies seriously conflict. You cannot read Gen. 2 as an extension of 1, as nothing in Gen. 2 refers back to Gen. 1. Some have attempted to bludgeon it into so doing, by reading certain passages in 2 in the pluperfect, but Hebrew has no pluperfect tense. Also, the literacy styles are very different. P, author of Gen. 1, is liturgical, likes lists. J, author of 2, is narrative. Hence, 2 was written before Gen. 1, as narrative form predates the liturgical.

In regard to Adam’s creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses, in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or “histories” that predated the Flood. Someone else wrote those histories.....Moses committed them to to what became God's word, so that he preserved them for God's people.

The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, “This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . ” The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated “was forming” is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a “helper” for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as “had been forming.”

These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. “After that [Adam and Eve’s creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.

The reason why evolution is the centerpiece in modern science is that it is one of the best-supported theories in science. If you think there isn't any hard evidence, then I suggest you do some more homework on the subject.

What makes you think I haven't? In every article or book I have ever read on the theory of evolution, I see the same terminology.....that something "might have" or "could have" happened a certain way. This is not the language of facts....it is the language of supposition and quantum leaps of such with no solid evidence that any of it is true. Evolution is only a proven fact to those who swallow the fairy story. What a study of natural science teaches us is that the diversity seen in creation is no accident, nor is it the result of God putting evolution to work for him. Design is seen everywhere and clever design requires a clever designer.
In the study of bio-mimetics, clever humans take something clever in nature and try to duplicate its properties. If it requires clever men to imitate a clever original, how is it that the original doesn't require a clever designer?

What purpose-built piece of technology that we use today, did not require a designer and manufacturer with qualifications?

We have moved from seeing reality as essentially static realm of independent facts to appreciating reality as dynamic and interrelated. Some believers have had trouble with this switch and then has desperately tried to attack evolution. The reason is that the classical picture of God as he is in his own nature was based largely on Hellenic substance philosophy, which necessitated seeing God as wholly immutable. God does not change and does neither does the universe. This classical model, however, is now viewed as lopsided and a neo-classical model of God is available, which enables one to appreciate God as a synthesis of both consistency and change. Consider that about 100 passages in Scripture speak of God as changing, e.g., Gen. 6:6, Hosea 11:8.

At last! Some scripture to examine....

Genesis 6:6
"And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."

What does immutable mean to you? God's standards do not change...his laws do not change....his purpose does not change...but he is a free willed being so his feelings about things can change....remember Moses' dealing with the golden calf incident, and God wanting to exterminate his wayward people because he felt regret? (Exodus 32:7-10) What about the flood of Noah's day? Did God really want to eliminate all flesh from existence? (2 Peter 3:9)
How about Jonah and the Ninevites? Can God change his mind if he has a good enough reason to?

Hosea 11:8:
How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart recoils within me;
my compassion grows warm and tender."


Here we see another change of heart in the opposite direction. We are made in the image of this God who has emotions like we do. Would we rather him be stiff and unmovable?
His mercy and loving kindness are contrasted but perfectly balanced with his abhorrence of wickedness and the importance of justice.

If you object to something I have to say, then you need to provide a solid rebuttal. Asking me who taught me that or who my teachers were is not a solid way to go in a discussion.

Since it matters a great deal to me who your teachers are, I beg to disagree. Because I will probably reject most of what you have been taught (for the same reasons that Jesus rejected the accepted teachers of his own day) it helps to remind ourselves that what "we" accept as truth may well be the opposite to what God accepts.
 

ashkat1`

Member
I will have to disagree...there is no trinity in either OT or NT scripture. It is the central teaching of Christendom....NOT Christianity. Never the twain shall meet I'm afraid.
no.gif


If you think that the disunited rabble that passes for Christianity today is remotely similar to the Christianity started by Christ, then I have to wonder at your definition of Christianity. (1 Corinthians 1:10)



Ah, again that explains a lot. There is a reason why Jesus did not choose the wise and intellectual ones of his day who were educated at the accepted schools back then. They taught errors....traditions of men disguised as God's word. Jesus did not have a good thing to say about those men. (Acts 4:13) If the teachers have it wrong...so will all of their students. Imagine.....the whole Jewish system operating in Jesus' day got it wrong about their Messiah. You think it can't happen again?



In regard to Adam’s creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses, in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or “histories” that predated the Flood. Someone else wrote those histories.....Moses committed them to to what became God's word, so that he preserved them for God's people.

The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, “This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . ” The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated “was forming” is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a “helper” for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as “had been forming.”

These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam’s creation is not disclosed. “After that [Adam and Eve’s creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.



What makes you think I haven't? In every article or book I have ever read on the theory of evolution, I see the same terminology.....that something "might have" or "could have" happened a certain way. This is not the language of facts....it is the language of supposition and quantum leaps of such with no solid evidence that any of it is true. Evolution is only a proven fact to those who swallow the fairy story. What a study of natural science teaches us is that the diversity seen in creation is no accident, nor is it the result of God putting evolution to work for him. Design is seen everywhere and clever design requires a clever designer.
In the study of bio-mimetics, clever humans take something clever in nature and try to duplicate its properties. If it requires clever men to imitate a clever original, how is it that the original doesn't require a clever designer?

What purpose-built piece of technology that we use today, did not require a designer and manufacturer with qualifications?



At last! Some scripture to examine....

Genesis 6:6
"And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."

What does immutable mean to you? God's standards do not change...his laws do not change....his purpose does not change...but he is a free willed being so his feelings about things can change....remember Moses' dealing with the golden calf incident, and God wanting to exterminate his wayward people because he felt regret? (Exodus 32:7-10) What about the flood of Noah's day? Did God really want to eliminate all flesh from existence? (2 Peter 3:9)
How about Jonah and the Ninevites? Can God change his mind if he has a good enough reason to?

Hosea 11:8:
How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I hand you over, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart recoils within me;
my compassion grows warm and tender."


Here we see another change of heart in the opposite direction. We are made in the image of this God who has emotions like we do. Would we rather him be stiff and unmovable?
His mercy and loving kindness are contrasted but perfectly balanced with his abhorrence of wickedness and the importance of justice.



Since it matters a great deal to me who your teachers are, I beg to disagree. Because I will probably reject most of what you have been taught (for the same reasons that Jesus rejected the accepted teachers of his own day) it helps to remind ourselves that what "we" accept as truth may well be the opposite to what God accepts.
Obviously, you are on an anti-intellectual rant. I do not have the time of day for that sort of thing. Also, you are misreading my posts again.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Obviously, you are on an anti-intellectual rant.

Am I? I thought I was just telling you what the Bible says.....is the Bible anti-intellectual? Was Jesus?

Are you not used to people disagreeing with you? If you need me to substantiate anything further, I would be happy to.

Also, you are misreading my posts again.
Then perhaps you can explain yourself a little better for us anti-intellectuals?
bl6.gif
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Then that would mean Jesus pre-exist as the Word. So you are saying that in the beginning, there is Archangel Michael that exists because there is the Word who became man-Jesus. May I ask if when He (Jesus) is the Archangel Michael, and when He (Jesus) is the Word?by Yoshua

Deeje, I see how you explained your answers with the questions that throws to you, but this my question is asking a clear identification of the question “when He (Jesus) is the Archangel Michael, and when He (Jesus) is the Word?”o_O

It didn’t answered, and flipped back the question by answering “depending on the role he is playing.”:eek:

Yes. It is because the HS convicts, grieves and speaking. Does a force grieves, convicts and speaking??:shrug:

If you don’t want the word “person,” then you may not use it. A person (personal) is just used to connote that it is alive and personal, living, and not dead--as impersonal.

I am sorry Yoshua, but I cannot understand this. Can you rephrase this please? I am assuming that English is not your first language?

I fully agree that the whole text should be considered, and I appreciate that. You added it as helper, comforter, bears witness and hears. Then, filled, baptized and anointed. If you say the latter do not fit to a person then you rejecting your stated examples (helper, comforter, bears witness and hears). Therefore, how come that you say that the whole text should be considered, and then you did not consider the attributes that the HS had (helper, comforter, bears witness and hears)?:rolleyes: I can say that there would be a bias of understanding, inconsistency and contradiction if that would be the JW’s understanding.:(

You are entitled to believe whatever you wish.

It is not about the name, it’s about the attributes of the Holy Spirit were the same with the Father and the Son.

I don't see that in the scriptures. The apostles didn't either. They identified the Father only as God...so did Jesus. (John 17:3)

This is what the literature booklet feeding the JW’s about the errors of Trinity. Why don’t you check the whole passage or the whole description? Did you know that (almost) a lot of quotes written are cut and incomplete?:rolleyes:

They were admissions in spite of that. They admit that the trinity is not from the Bible....yet they believe that the holy spirit is God....I do not.

You mentioned that the spirit being became Jesus. This is why I’m asking you above when He is an archangel and when He is Jesus. Then, who is that ”spirit” that you are mentioned?

I am not entirely sure of what you are saying? The spirit being, God's firstborn son was in heaven with his Father had many roles. For each role he was given a name that described the role itself.
He was the same spirit who took on many duties in the service of his God. How hard is that to understand? He left heaven to be born as a human on earth and when he was resurrected, he went back to the spirit realm from which he came...back to his former life.


You have no prophets?? Then why prophesy?:eek: and I absolutely sure that there will be a problem because how come that your organization made several prophecies?

We made mistakes in the timing of one prophesy. We are still in expectation of its fulfillment. (Matthew 24:42)
We are not prophets but we are very interested in the prophesies we can see being fulfilled right now.

A human that is not a prophet from God should not prophesy.
We don't. :) We preach...in every nation on earth...the same message about God's kingdom.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You are a newbie ashkat...all of these questions have been "discussed" a thousand times before. I have no problem explaining anything...just not to the same trolls who have nothing better to do than rehash the same old tripe over and over again. .
There are a thousand proofs that you have not answered my questions. You haven't answered one, if I am remembering correctly.

So far your sudo-answers have sounded something like this: Savagewind's questions need answers that differ from what the society of Jehovah's Witnesses have been taught by the governing body of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses so they do not deserve any attention at all.

I know you @Deeje are not paying attention. If the words on the internet survive your Armageddon, History will know JWs were not paying attention. "And they took no note" says The Lord!
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Deeje, here is a question that has not received one word back yet, but I fear you won't see it, as I suspect I have been eliminated* by you finally (like the others already did)**.

I believe a disciple of Jesus Christ is taught directly by The Holy Spirit. The JWs seem to believe that the Holy Spirit does not teach (as it is an impersonal power) , but that it directs a person's own thoughts.

They teach that it directs the thoughts of the governing body for "food at the proper time". The governing body profess to be of the 144,000 and therefore will end up in Heaven.

THE QUESTION: When the governing body are not on Earth to feed you any longer, WHO WILL?

So sorry. My little friend*** has reminded me that you did answer it.

You said that the brothers are being trained to teach and they will teach you. Will they teach you new stuff or old stuff?

Old stuff? Old "food". (My friend laughs)

New stuff? HOW?





*On the forum it is possible to eliminate a person by choosing the ignore feature for him or her
**that is why I loved you, because I believed you would not kill me as the rest did. I think I shall still love you and you know why. ;)
***I do not know
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Here is another question that got no response.

The 144,000 are pictured only in Heaven, but the JWs say some of the 144,000 are on Earth teaching and guiding us. That is a divided number.
What scripture is proof that the 144,000 can be divided?
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This question has been asked only once before this one. Here it is again, for the second time.

If spiritual light means understanding why is it written that we are not to lean on understanding?

1. on understanding do not lean
2. the path of the righteous gets lighter and lighter
3. the light of Proverbs 4:18 means understanding
4 but on understanding do not lean*

Here is a question I have asked on multiple forums and have not got an answer yet from anyone. Not even a word have I got.

Why is the word, "own" added at Proverbs 3:5?"


*Am I assuming correctly that we should be leaning on God's light, not on God's understanding?
 
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ashkat1`

Member
Am I? I thought I was just telling you what the Bible says.....is the Bible anti-intellectual? Was Jesus?

Are you not used to people disagreeing with you? If you need me to substantiate anything further, I would be happy to.


Then perhaps you can explain yourself a little better for us anti-intellectuals?
bl6.gif
As I said, I am not interested in anti-intellectual rants. I am interested solely in what the best of the best have to say, what is bold, innovative, and new. That excludes you.
 
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