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Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?

Does the father will that some of his children get raped, tortured, and murdered?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 24.0%

  • No

    Votes: 19 76.0%
  • Total voters
    25
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I find it amazing that we have more votes No instead of yes...

Even more amazing that some if not all those who voted "no" think that God has control of everything...

Let me ask you, if you give a registered sex-offender freedom to rome your house and you know he's gonna rape your kid, could you really claim you didn't want it to happen? It is truly absurd for me to think otherwise.

It's no different with God. If he gives the devil and wicked people permission to triumph over, fool, manipulate, and slaughter the good and just, then he's asking for it to happen.

I'm giving God the benefit of the doubt and assuming they will be so rewarded and filled with glory euphoria on the other side, that they won't care about what happened to them or even be glad it happened, but I'm not going to deny the obvious.

I know of some sweet girls that tried to help out a sociopathic murderer who was pretending to be injured. It was an acts of kindness that cost them their life.

Without violating free -will God could have enlightened them to not try helping the guy and recognize he's faking the injury so he can knock them out with a crow-bar and rape + mutilate their bodies.

Their inability to discern the killers intentions is also the responsibility of God as well because there is no violation of free -will to give people accurate instincts and the gift of discernment.

Free -will is such a pathetic cop-out, it's interesting so many seeming rational thinkers buy into it.
 
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FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
PopeADope said:
Does God have knowledge of all things, control of all things including the Devil?
Click to expand...

If God will control everything then that means we'll be programmed by him, but the fact is that we're 100% free on this earth for
a specified time and we'll be asked for everything that we have done.

God only warns us of doing the bad deeds and that the punishment day will certainly come.

We were made as to be free in our decisions, it has disadvantages as the Angels said that humans will do corruption
on earth but God replied that regardless of this fact but I had a purpose of humans and which is their ability to learn
and to obtain the knowledge.

In the era of prophet Mohammed people receded in getting the knowledge and corruption had spread,
people were slaved, baby females were buried alive and ignorance spread everywhere.

Muslims after controlling the lands, they started to translate the science books of the Greece and Egyptians,
and after restoring it, they started to search for the knowledge and to teach it.

 
That one dude...

That one dude...

Why should I have a faith?
It's the will of rapists, torturers, and murderers as a means to an end. God doesn't necessarily have to enter into it.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
The problem is that if I know someone is being abused, even if I'm not related to the incidents, I can get in trouble for not acting upon my KNOWLEDGE. Why am I held to a higher moral standard than GOD?
Click to expand...
Firstly, especially in Christianity, life isn't promised to be easy and without suffering. Jesus, Who is God Himself, wasn't even exempt from that. He was rejected, abandoned by His friends and then tortured to death. The Apostles were all executed in brutal ways, as well. The world is screwed up. It's fallen and people are messed up. God didn't make it that way. We did. We are the ones who should be trying to fix it. The moral duty is ours. God doesn't have to do anything. As a matter of fact, if I were God, I would've totally wiped humanity out long ago. If I were Christ, I wouldn't come back. So God is a lot more merciful than I am. I don't understand why He still loves us.

God doesn't micromanage everything. He delegates some of His authority to His creation. We have responsibilities and duties. We need to grow up, stop blaming God for everything wrong and do what we can to make it better.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
J

JoStories

Well-Known Member
rusra02 said:
I believe the Bible makes it clear God is never responsible for wickedness. "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10) Your questions appear similar to some recorded in the Bible: "How long must I ask for help from violence, but you do not intervene? Why do you make me witness wrongdoing? And why do you tolerate oppression? Why are destruction and violence before me? And why do quarreling and conflict abound?" (Habakkuk 1:2,3) Jehovah answered Habakkuk: "For the vision is yet for its appointed time, And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie. Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! For it will without fail come true.It will not be late!" (Habakkuk 2:3) I believe Jehovah has an appointed time to call to account all the wicked, and bring relief to the righteous. The reasons he has tolerated wickedness until now are also revealed in the Bible.
Click to expand...
and yet God killed all the people in Sodom and killed the first born sons of Egypt, etc. These were acts of God, not man. That would seem to intimate that God is fully capable of committing heinous acts on God's own.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
FearGod said:
If God will control everything then that means we'll be programmed by him, but the fact is that we're 100% free on this earth for
a specified time and we'll be asked for everything that we have done.
Click to expand...

The Quran openly states that Allah restricts free will when God wishes or sends agents to act on God's behalf

Quran 2:7 is an example

Give the above such acts of individuals being 100% free is false. You may not even know if you are being controlled by God or not. I could claim my rejection of God is a product of God acting upon my freewill making it impossible for me to believe. To punish me for after conditioning me to never believe is an act of a sadist or psychopath.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
How can you give someone permission to harm your child if you don't want them to?

Before Satan could slaughter JOb's family he had to go before the throne of God and petition him and God said granted, you can do whatever you want to anything he has, just don't lay a finger on him.

After killing his family he asked God if he could put Job in physical agony with illness and torment him with sores, boils, diseases, nightmares, terror, emotional and psychological trauma, and God changed his mind and gave Satan permission torture him as he please.

The book of Job is the word of God (in Christianity + Judaism ), which means every word was inspired by God.

The Devil also wasn't showing any signs of wanting to go after Job before God pointed him out saying "have you considered my servant Job? "

God wanted Satan to kill Jobs family. How can you argue contrary? ... God decides what is good, so I can't accuse God of doing any wrong, but if you give someone permission to kill your kids, it's because you want them to kill your kids.

How on earth could anyone argue otherwise?
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Shad said:
The Quran openly states that Allah restricts free will when God wishes or sends agents to act on God's behalf

Quran 2:7 is an example

Give the above such acts of individuals being 100% free is false. You may not even know if you are being controlled by God or not. I could claim my rejection of God is a product of God acting upon my freewill making it impossible for me to believe. To punish me for after conditioning me to never believe is an act of a sadist or psychopath.
Click to expand...

Do you think the presence of the police in the streets to force you to obey the laws are against your free will?
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Interesting, I had a dream about this exorcist Father Chad Ripperger. He performed an exorcism on me while in Iowa... Brilliant educated psychologist as well with very high IQ.

He brings up some interesting points you don't hear to often.

He is a firm believer that Satan needs permission to do anything including tempt or possess people. Our sins can open the door for Satan to enter but first God has to tell him to enter.

He also says if you sell your soul to the Devil for some gain in this life , Satan can only keep up his end of the contract (reward ) to the extent God gives him permission to.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Sorry ukok,

Your premise is flimsy.... God will say not to kill people in one part of scripture and say the opposite elsewhere.... Jesus has a totally different personality, ethics, and morals than Yahweh of the Old Testament
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Jesus was a rebel against the Old Testament.... Thank God we had a merciful son to put his narcissistic, intolerant Father in check.

But I still love you and forgive you Dad....you're just following your inclinations and I can't fault you for being you and following your cruel egotistical nature , just please be as compassionate as some some of us are , be considerate, just, and liberal with your healing graces and mercy , in Jesus name! And I congratulate you for you have come a long way! Love you Dad! :glomp:
 
R

RRex

Active Member
Premium Member
What is the deal with the wall of scripture?

What an incredible invitation to ignore the poster.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
Firstly, especially in Christianity, life isn't promised to be easy and without suffering. Jesus, Who is God Himself, wasn't even exempt from that.
Click to expand...
Most people don't have superpowers that can fix it. We have to suck it up because we have little other choice. Jesus was hungry and smote a fig tree because he was angry, yet had the power to poof up food. His suffering was entirely because of his own ego, not because nature just sucked. (Or, rather, he couldn't poof up figs because it was counter to the author's plot, which happens quite a bit to Jesus.)

Saint Frankenstein said:
God didn't make it that way. We did.
Click to expand...
God can form a universe and we can't even form an island without lots of machines to help us and in the bible we even got in trouble for just making a really short skyscraper, but it's OUR fault?

Saint Frankenstein said:
We are the ones who should be trying to fix it. The moral duty is ours. God doesn't have to do anything.
Click to expand...
We are the ones who should be trying to fix it. (I agree.) The moral duty is ours. God apparently ISN'T going to do anything. (fixed)

Saint Frankenstein said:
We need to grow up, stop blaming God for everything wrong and do what we can to make it better.
Click to expand...
An infant sticks a fork in an electrical socket. We should blame the infant and not the parent who failed to childproof the house. Got it.

PopeADope said:
The book of Job is the word of God (in Christianity + Judaism ), which means every word was inspired by God.
Click to expand...
From Job 2:
“Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.”
Click to expand...
God is ADMITTING out in the OPEN that He is trolling Job WITHOUT REASON. It also implies Satan is not testing Job, but GOD. And God is taking the bait.
 
A

Acim

Revelation all the time
PopeADope said:
Nothing torments my mind more than hearing about children being sexually assaulted , tortured, and killed. What I find also slightly mind -boggling is how many Christians say "God never wills that should happen to anyone. "

How can a person really make such an argument?
Click to expand...

Intellectually, by understanding what Will actually means. Spiritually, by understanding what is actually God's Will.

If you have a daughter that you knew from her birth was going to be slain by a serial killer....
Click to expand...

Given that God's Will includes exactly 'no death,' then such an understanding would be a sure sign of inherent ignorance.

You knew who the serial killer was, where he lived, you could have found ways to get him arrested or killed, or you could have moved to another state, and instead you just let it play out, then you clearly willed your daughter to be the prey of a serial killer.
Click to expand...

Since, we are playing the game of ignorance, that has magical powers of 'understanding,' I'll go along for the ride. Sure, it means you clearly predisposed the daughter to be the prey of a serial killer. This though, has failed to present how that would equate to Will.

If it was God's will that his own son (Jesus) be tortured, humiliated, and executed, it would be a bit of a stretch to assume he doesn't will such things to happen to his other children as well (just look at the fate of the early Christians ).
Click to expand...

Jesus' torture/crucifixion is clearly not God's Will. Gnostic Christianity knows this. I would not be shy about debating this with anyone. I wouldn't be holding back on clear understanding of terms up for discussion. I imagine most would choose to leave such a discussion with terms of "agree to disagree." I believe God's Will can wait, patiently in Eternity for such ignorance to play out for all it's inevitable lack of actual understanding of God's Will.

So, your prayer for your son or daughter may be that they become a missionary, have a big happy family, do well in school, stay safe and healthy etc. , but God may will they get murdered in high school.
Click to expand...

Will and murder do not make sense together, mostly because murder is, in Reality, not possible.

If you let a terrorist into your house , knowing with 100% certainty that He will blow it up ( long in advance you knew where he stored his weapons and could have got him arrested) it is because it was your will he would blow up your house.
Click to expand...

Then, why even add the terrorist to this picture, if attempting to explain 'will' from this type of perspective? Would it not be my desire for the house to blow up given these parameters?

If God didn't want people to be tortured and murdered, then it wouldn't be happening every day, would not have happened to the prophets, the Apostles, the early Christians, or so many Christians today.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's not actually happening. Perhaps those who believe in the appearance of a materialistic universe are fundamentally mistaken about their own reality. Perhaps some are mistaking illusion for Reality and wishing to hold onto the illusion as if it is the only 'reality' they find appealing?
 
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