Let's Talk About the Holy Spirit

JesusBeliever said:

They did! But then changed their minds:

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This is so strange. I can your post @JesusBeliever and it says, "TWICE", but then when I reply it says, "But then they changed their minds". So I replied again and the phenomenon is still there.

Anyway, I want to know your thinking on, "twice". The reason why is because many people expect Jesus to return. The Jehovah's Witnesses expect Jesus to return too, but they say he already did in 1914 so then for them he must return twice. Is that scriptural?

Haha! I see the edit feature caught up to the present moment. Proof of time travel?

Forgive me @Deeje for my present mania. I will leave now (for awhile).

Deeje said:

Before coming to be born as a human, Jesus too possessed a spirit body. The person of God's firstborn son was somehow transferred into the womb of a Jewish maiden and brought to birth just like any other human.....but this person had lived before, in another realm, for eons of time. He was unique, but he was fully human...and completely mortal.

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According to WT teachings, Jesus didn't come to earth, it was Michael that came to earth and the baby born was named Jesus.

Deeje said:

Jesus is definitely the "brother" of the chosen ones who will rule with him in his kingdom, (Revelation 20:6; Matthew 25:40) but he is King to the subjects of that kingdom. He is also their High Priest. (Hebrews 3:1)

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Matthew 25:34-40 (ESV Strong's) 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Jesus is only talking about 144,000 people in these verses?

savagewind said:

This is so strange. I can your post @JesusBeliever and it says, "TWICE", but then when I reply it says, "But then they changed their minds". So I replied again and the phenomenon is still there.

Anyway, I want to know your thinking on, "twice". The reason why is because many people expect Jesus to return. The Jehovah's Witnesses expect Jesus to return too, but they say he already did in 1914 so then for them he must return twice. Is that scriptural?

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Yeah my bad , I changed my mind when I realized the context of your question. The TWICE I was actually referring to was the mention of Pentecost in the article.

JesusBeliever said:

Yeah my bad , I changed my mind when I realized the context of your question. The TWICE I was actually referring to was the mention of Pentecost in the article.

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Right. Jesus came back to the group pictured at Pentecost, then he came again in 1914 to the Bible Students and, according to them, he will come a third time to destroy you and me. I am confident that my destruction should be painless.

Forgive me @Deeje for my present mania. I will leave now (for awhile).

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I think its called an obsession but its yours and you are welcome to it.
The obsessive ones here tend to feed one another. Does that make you each other's slave?

It isn't up to me to correct you. We all have the same judge. I'll just let him do his job.

If you've made your choices, then all is as it should be.

Deeje said:

The obsessive ones here tend to feed one another. Does that make you each other's slave?

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Does this sound familiar?

13 Who, then, are the domestics? Put simply, they are those who are fed. Early in the last days, the domestics were all anointed ones. Later,the domestics came to include the great crowd of other sheep. The other sheep now make up the vast majority of the “one flock” under Christ’s leadership. (John 10:16) Both groups benefit from the same timely spiritual food that is dispensed by the faithful slave. What about the Governing Body members who today make up the faithful and discreet slave? Those brothers also need to be fed spiritually. Hence, they humbly recognize that as individuals they are domestics just like all the rest of Jesus’ genuine followers.

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So, if it makes us each other's slaves, it makes you and the slave each other's slaves.
Galatians 5:13
1 Corinthians 9:19
Ephesians 5:21

Really, many times I think you are kidding.

savagewind said:

Right. Jesus came back to the group pictured at Pentecost, then he came again in 1914 to the Bible Students and, according to them, he will come a third time to destroy you and me. I am confident that my destruction should be painless.

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I was just reminded of a verse:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he APPEAR the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28

In the First Century Jesus appeared to His Disciples a Second Time, just as He promised He would:

""After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will DISCLOSE Myself to him."" John 14:19-21

Looking these verses up in the Greek got my head and heart swirling with lots of other verses.
Gee I love feeding on the Word of God, don't you?

JesusBeliever said:

I was just reminded of a verse:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he APPEAR the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28

In the First Century Jesus appeared to His Disciples a Second Time, just as He promised He would:

""After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will DISCLOSE Myself to him."" John 14:19-21

Looking these verses up in the Greek got my head and heart swirling with lots of other verses.
Gee I love feeding on the Word of God, don't you?

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I believe Jesus comes to each person. Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

It is interesting to note that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have never claimed to BE with Jesus. They claim they know what scripture means by "careful study and prayer" . But JWs know better than most that Jehovah will not hear some prayers. Isaiah 1:15

JesusBeliever said:

I was just reminded of a verse:

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he APPEAR the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28

In the First Century Jesus appeared to His Disciples a Second Time, just as He promised He would:

""After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will DISCLOSE Myself to him."" John 14:19-21

Looking these verses up in the Greek got my head and heart swirling with lots of other verses.
Gee I love feeding on the Word of God, don't you?

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Yeah, you presented a verse /in one of my threads/,, that implied that no one would say that Jesus is God, except, by the Holy Spirit. Same thing.

syncretic said:

How did you get/insert the smileys ?

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I copied @Deeje I am on a desk computer. I draw across it, then control c and v.

savagewind said:

I believe Jesus comes to each person. Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

It is interesting to note that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have never claimed to BE with Jesus. They claim they know what scripture means by "careful study and prayer" . But JWs know better than most that Jehovah will not hear some prayers. Isaiah 1:15

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You might want to read what I posted to ''Jesus Believer'', a bit more carefully. He/she seems to have left, so perhaps they will answer lol

According to WT teachings, Jesus didn't come to earth, it was Michael that came to earth and the baby born was named Jesus.

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I sometimes wonder why you post things that seem to be so obvious to us but not to you.

Until he was born as a human child, the man Jesus did not exist. He wasn't called "Jesus" in heaven before his incarnation. And since Jesus is the created son of God (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14) who might well be the archangel Michael, according to Paul, (1 Thess 4:15, 16)....we don't see what your problem is. The trinity is your belief, not ours.

Matthew 25:34-40 (ESV Strong's) 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Jesus is only talking about 144,000 people in these verses?

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What is the setting? It is the time for separating "the sheep from the goats"....the judgment.
How many people or groups of people are in this scenario? First we have the King, Jesus Christ....then we have those blessed by his Father (the sheep) being invited to "inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world" (kosmos) because these ones have done good things for Christ's "brothers", sometimes unknowingly.

So the King blesses those who have supported even the least one of his brothers by seeing to their needs. The ones inheriting the Kingdom are all those who recognize the need to support all their brothers and sisters, whether they are anointed or not. That is because we are all members of the same flock under one shepherd...we just have different destinations and roles to play. Those adopted as "sons of God", are "brothers" to Christ. Those who support Christ's "brothers" are those who will be subjects of the Kingdom here on earth. (Rev 21:1-5) So Jesus is not just talking about the 144,000...is he?

The "goats" on the other hand, have not done anything to support Christ's brothers and will not receive a favorable judgment. (Matthew 25:41-46; 10:42) The "lake of fire" awaits them even though they were often unaware of their failure.

Deeje said:

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So we are reduced to stats now? What percentage of Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah?

We do not tolerate those who want their own way whilst pretending to follow God's way. We don't get to do our own thing for the simple reason, that when we dedicate our lives to God, we actually mean it. Our own wants and needs are put aside whilst we put the interests of God's Kingdom first (Matthew 6:33) and our own selfish pursuits second.
Unrepentant wrongdoers are missing from our ranks because we disfellowship them. We make no apology for that. The way is always open to return if they meet the criteria. (1 Corinthians 5:9-13) Who wants to retain dissenters and those who thumb their noses at God's laws? Being a Christian has never been about the numbers. (Matthew 7:13, 14) Its about faith without compromise.

Just being raised as a Witness is no guarantee that our children will follow our way of life. We do not force them but we understand that the world is ruled by satan and there are traps for the unwary and inexperienced. (1 John 2:15-17; 5:19) We give them warnings, but at the end of the day, it is a hard life being obedient to God and the teachings of Jesus Christ in this environment. Self interest often wins out over the fallen flesh....even with adults.

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Excellent points, Deeje! I really like that one about the percentage of Jews accepting Jesus!

Reminds me of the 'argumentum ad populatum' fallacy.

syncretic said:

You might want to read what I posted to ''Jesus Believer'', a bit more carefully. He/she seems to have left, so perhaps they will answer lol

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It is hard for me to understand you as you post in a vague style. What am I supposed to see in the post, that you might think I don't see?

savagewind said:

I believe Jesus comes to each person. Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

It is interesting to note that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have never claimed to BE with Jesus. They claim they know what scripture means by "careful study and prayer" . But JWs know better than most that Jehovah will not hear some prayers. Isaiah 1:15

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And those who join with the world in their wars, and kill their brothers? Jesus will "eat with" them, too?

Hockeycowboy said:

And those who join with the world in their wars, and kill their brothers? Jesus will "eat with" them, too?

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I forgot someone has made you The Judge.

Do you not realize that your governing body teach that Jesus will kill his brothers at Judgement Day?
Isn't anyone his family who "does the will of God"? You must be far, far gone if you actually trust the governing body when they say they are alone doing God's will.

So, people are doing God's will and Jesus will kill them because they didn't join your group.

syncretic said:

The thread I posted, directly called Jesus as God. The user 'JesusBeliever', posted a verse that states that, no one can say that Jesus is God, without the Holy Spirit. Is he/she going to respond? Whats the implication? very easy to post verses

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I don't think you are supposed to jump threads.

savagewind said:

I don't think you are supposed to jump threads.

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I'm not. It's the same topic. He/she can respond

syncretic said:

I'm not. It's the same topic. He/she can respond

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OK. Why did you refer me to it?