With Or Without God

Rival said:

So, how does God or Gods give life inherent meaning?

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Hi, Rival

I'm another theist who doesn't believe that life has any inherent meaning or purpose. I'd actually go a bit further and say it doesn't have any inherent value beyond that which we ascribe to it, but that's maybe a slightly different topic.

Now I can see how some people would feel that a god is necessary for life to have inherent meaning. I disagree mind you, but their argument tends to be something along these lines:
There is a creator who designed our world and our place within it with a specific goal in mind. Our existence has an inherent purpose in much the same way a cup is designed to hold liquid. We might choose to go against our purpose, but that doesn't change the fact that we had one to begin with. In this sense, the meaning of our existence is the same as its purpose, namely to fulfil the will of that creator.

Personally, I find that quite a disturbing thought. I also don't believe that atheists are somehow incapable of holding that life has inherent meaning or purpose. I suppose that to somebody who strongly believes the scenario I described above, meaning and purpose without a creator is inconceivable.

The afterlife or lack of one is interesting as I can see arguments for and against meaning going both ways. Our life is finite and our legacy will eventually be reduced to nothing, therefore life has no inherent meaning. Our life is finite and is therefore infinitely precious and meaningful. There is an afterlife and therefore our existence continues to have meaning after death. There is an afterlife and therefore this life is nothing more than a prelude to eternity, rendering it meaningless.

As for myself, I'm inclined to believe that there is something rather than nothing after death. However, this isn't a rational belief so much as it's a feeling I've never quite been able to shake. Intellectually, I'm agnostic about an afterlife.

Life has whatever meaning you choose to give it. God has nothing to do with it. Our "purpose" imho is to love one another and make the world a better place.

Rival said:

I am a theist, I believe in a God. I believe he created the universe and so on. But I still don't believe that life has any inherent meaning. Why should there being a God all of a sudden give life meaning? I see this argument a lot, directed at Atheists, of how can life have any meaning without God, or some form of this argument. I am asking, why does God or Gods give life meaning? I'm not interested in afterlife (which I am personally ambivalent about) or such things. My belief is, God or no, life has no ultimate, inherent meaning or value. We all end up dead and dust, and there probably is no afterlife in my opinion (and even if there were, it still wouldn't give this life meaning).

So, how does God or Gods give life inherent meaning?

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I agree with a lot of your thinking. The importance of the traditional God question is overrated in my mind too. I see things differently though as I see the most important question being 'am I just a temporary physical being that just comes and goes OR am I something 'more' and perhaps eternal'. (I now believe we are eternal from my study of the so-called 'paranormal' and eastern/Indian wisdom traditions). Without a belief in the afterlife I do not see why this God question would matter to me. What difference would it make beyond a curiosity for speculative thinking.

Rival said:

I am a theist, I believe in a God. I believe he created the universe and so on. But I still don't believe that life has any inherent meaning. Why should there being a God all of a sudden give life meaning? I see this argument a lot, directed at Atheists, of how can life have any meaning without God, or some form of this argument. I am asking, why does God or Gods give life meaning? I'm not interested in afterlife (which I am personally ambivalent about) or such things. My belief is, God or no, life has no ultimate, inherent meaning or value. We all end up dead and dust, and there probably is no afterlife in my opinion (and even if there were, it still wouldn't give this life meaning).

So, how does God or Gods give life inherent meaning?

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You're a blank page unless you filled it with a meaning which you want to follow and reach. Or not? God gave us life and he breath us alive for once more. The breath is the inital motive for you to put meaning to your life.

If God is a person, a consciousness, or if there is no imagineable God at all is not that important for me. All notions are absolute personal concepts which is biased through religion but this helps me to clear misunderstanding about what is meant. I earn knowledge that i am the one who has to fill life with the meaning i got from the initial motive.

I think after life is not to worry about. i see humans do never reach their full consciousess in life which means on the other hand if we are dead we wont loose it completely. Merely what was given from us into His breath is what will remain.

God as a person has its advantages for having it as a POV to learn from but...; A lot people intentionally misuse their knowledge about a God for their merely rhetoric "actions". Their mind is in an state that they dont believe it consciously. Its a way to live it self cynically. Your naviety to question them is their weapon to blame and question you. And all your notions will fall as they must.

Burl said:

Order is the meaning. Even if life is 'merely' adding dimensions of entertainment such as eating & sleeping, there appears an order that provides comfort.

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Let's say order is obtained. Then what?

Rival said:

I am a theist, I believe in a God. I believe he created the universe and so on. But I still don't believe that life has any inherent meaning. Why should there being a God all of a sudden give life meaning? I see this argument a lot, directed at Atheists, of how can life have any meaning without God, or some form of this argument. I am asking, why does God or Gods give life meaning? I'm not interested in afterlife (which I am personally ambivalent about) or such things. My belief is, God or no, life has no ultimate, inherent meaning or value. We all end up dead and dust, and there probably is no afterlife in my opinion (and even if there were, it still wouldn't give this life meaning).

So, how does God or Gods give life inherent meaning?

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Hi there, these are just my feelings about how God gives meaning to me and my life. Believing that there is life beyond this world encourages me not to lose heart when I face hardships and suffering in this life, believing that those hardships are only temporary. It encourages me to slow down and to really take time for people, to share with them and help them in anyway I can. It encourages me to let go of the temporary gains of this life, and to think about ways that I can be of service to all those I come in contact with. How can I help to enrich their life and fill their lives and hearts with love, joy, peace and hope. These are the things I think about all the time. And I pray for strength and courage and guidance in how I best be of service to others. That for me is what life is about, and I find that belief in God helps me to live that life.

Kind Regards

Rival said:

What kind of a sick God would put people in an eternal hell? And why create this life just to torture us further with sufferings and mishaps? What is the point of it?

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Hi there, I know many of my christian brethren believe this but personally I don't, and it's not because I'm not learned in the Scriptures because I am. I believe that the Bible teaches that all will be saved in the end and will live in peace and happiness, but currently man seems to have this need to create divisions and hierarchies to gain power and control over others.

Burl said:

Order is the meaning. Even if life is 'merely' adding dimensions of entertainment such as eating & sleeping, there appears an order that provides comfort.

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Milton Platt said:

Perhaps for a fortunate few who live in a well developed country with relative wealth, medical system, plenty of food and clean water.......but for many millions.....not so..

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Burl said:

Yes; Order is an assumption of categories: In a "Do as you would be done by" world, who belongs where?

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Father Heathen said:

Let's say order is obtained. Then what?

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Then the discontented may migrate within the system to a category of their fancy.

I can understand how you feel. The Bible explains regarding our life: "The greatest futility!” says the congregator,“The greatest futility! Everything is futile." (Ecclesiastes 1:2) "For the creation was subjected to futility" says Romans 8:20.
I believe for our lives to have meaning, we must "seek God, if [we] might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us. For by him we have life and move and exist." (Acts 17:27,28) Knowing God's purposes, and having friendship with him, gives our lives real meaning and purpose, IMO. Without a relationship with the true God, our lives really have no meaning.

Orbit said:

Life has whatever meaning you choose to give it. God has nothing to do with it. Our "purpose" imho is to love one another and make the world a better place.

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Hi Orbit, the fact that you say this tells me that you have God in you and you follow His leading in your heart. That's my honest opinion about all people who choose love, compassion and empathy for their fellow man. Scripture says that God is love, and he that dwells in love dwells in God and God in him.

Burl said:

Then the discontented may migrate within the system to a category of their fancy.

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And then?

Enjoy your rewards.

Burl said:

Enjoy your rewards.

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So, cutting out all of the middle crap you've mentioned, the meaning of life is to obtain joy and enjoyment?

I believe entertainment is the meaning of incarnation. The abuse practiced by authorities in feathering their own nests under the guise of fair wages and equal opportunity is our obstruction. Even pedophiles are free to do as they would be done by in my opinion.
That presupposes re-incarnation and the choice of not re-incarnating because of what we are liable for has the entertainment deficiencies of not eating or sleeping imo.

I would ask when considering this question of 'meaning', if it is indeed a given that everything needs a 'meaning' or 'purpose' as it were. I don't believe it is, seeing as we goof off with buddies, drink alcohol, watch movies, etc- and there's not really of a complex purpose to it.

Father Heathen said:

So, cutting out all of the middle crap you've mentioned, the meaning of life is to obtain joy and enjoyment?

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My idea of "meaning of life" isn't too far from this. Perhaps this makes it sound a little more hedonistic that I would state it but yeah, the "meaning" of life is to live it and enjoy it to the best of our ability.