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Trump

4consideration

*
Premium Member
I don't blame Hillary or the party for the violence.
But do think both The Donald & The Hildabreast inspire irrationally negative passions.

To be surrounded by young toughs bent on mayhem....I've been there.
It ended peacefully.....but with my hand visibly on my trust Glock #22.
Peace thru strength & civility.
It works.
I realize neither candidate is personally in control of what their supporters do in a particular situation.

What really swayed my opinion today was that I clicked on a youtube clip because I saw Ben Stein, and I really like his dry sense of humor. In it he mentioned he was voting for Trump for that sort of reason -- something like voting against the thugs and gangsters that throw rocks at people. I haven't been watching cable TV for months, so I have not seen TV coverage of the behavior of protesters at all these rallies, and when I looked into it, there's enough of it for me to switch my vote because of that behavior.

If they don't want me voting for Trump, they can start acting en mass with some civility and decency toward people that they disagree with.
 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
Having just been through the hell of the UKs EU referendum and still reeling from the result, I can only sympathise with the appalling choice the American people will be presented with in November. I don't envy you at all and idealism is in short supply and we get some warped and pathological mutant instead. Our so called realism is slowly killing us. Eventually i'd like to vote for something on a basis other than the lesser evil. It wouldn't surprise me if Trump won as that would make sense given of the crisis of neoliberalism that is going on at the moment. All I could ask is that you make an informed choice. The rest of what I could say would be just empty partisanship.
I agree with you that I, too, would love to vote for something on the basis of it being other than the lesser of the evil. I've been around more than 50 years, and I've watched the Clintons during all that time, and there is no way I'd vote for Clinton.

I really don't like Trump's personality, at least not what I've seen in the last few years. I would have preferred someone I like better, but I have to vote according to the choices available. I think he'll do a better job than Hillary. I think she'd sell us out to the highest bidder.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I realize neither candidate is personally in control of what their supporters do in a particular situation.

What really swayed my opinion today was that I clicked on a youtube clip because I saw Ben Stein, and I really like his dry sense of humor. In it he mentioned he was voting for Trump for that sort of reason -- something like voting against the thugs and gangsters that throw rocks at people. I haven't been watching cable TV for months, so I have not seen TV coverage of the behavior of protesters at all these rallies, and when I looked into it, there's enough of it for me to switch my vote because of that behavior.

If they don't want me voting for Trump, they can start acting en mass with some civility and decency toward people that they disagree with.
I understand, even if their antics don't sway me.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Having just been through the hell of the UKs EU referendum and still reeling from the result,...
You there may have actually done us a favor whereas we'll see how your situation with the shift to the right will play out before we vote in November. Trump linked himself to the "leave" and Clinton to the "stay", so if the "leave" doesn't work out, it could be used by the Dems to say "See, this is what you're gonna get with Trump!".

But, otoh, ...
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Found this in the news today.....
http://spectator.org/64643_when-trump-fought-racists/
It seems Trump has long been a lawsuit happy rabble rouser.
(This was back when Hillary was opposing gay marriage.)
The WSJ story that is linked focuses on the battles Trump faced as a new arrival to Palm Beach, including his new competition with the social clubs of the old order. The story, which quotes Abe Foxman, the longtime head of the Anti-Defamation League, says, in part, the following:
Mr. Trump also has resorted to the courts to secure his foothold here, and many residents wince at the attention his legal battles with the town have drawn — to the town in general, and to the admission practices at some of Palm Beach’s older clubs in particular.
…The culture clash began to approach a climax last fall, when Mr. Trump’s lawyer sent members of the town council a copy of the film “Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner,” a film that deals with upper-class racism. Mr. Trump then approached the town council about lifting the restrictions that had been placed on the club. He also asked some council members not to vote on the request because their membership in other clubs created a conflict of interest.

Last December, after the council refused to lift the restrictions, Mr. Trump filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Palm Beach, alleging that the town was discriminating against Mar-a-Lago, in part because it is open to Jews and African-Americans. The suit seeks $100 million in damages.

… Mr. Foxman seems pleased that Mr. Trump has elevated the issue of discriminatory policies at social clubs. “He put the light on Palm Beach,” Mr. Foxman says. “Not on the beauty and the glitter, but on its seamier side of discrimination. It has an impact.”

In recent weeks, Mr. Foxman says, the league has received calls from Jewish residents telling of how Palm Beach clubs are changing. Locals concur that in the past year, organizations such as the Bath and Tennis Club have begun to admit Jewish patrons. The Palm Beach Civic Association, which for many years was believed to engage in discriminatory behavior, this month named a Jewish resident as its chief officer.

In other words? In other words, long before he was running for president, there was Donald Trump battling racism and anti-Semitism in Palm Beach society. Using every tool at his disposal.
 
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MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
That is blatantly false. He won't stand up to protect LBGT, immigrants, or Muslims. It's nothing but folly to pretend he'll protect the rights and liberties of all Americans because he has said otherwise. He says an American of Mexican descent is not a "real" American, he says the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage is not right, and you don't have to look to hard to find his venom being spewed at Muslims.

At least she won't trample on minorities like Trump.

This. This times a thousand.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Congratulations. That is an impressively stupid reason for deciding who to vote for.

Never mind it spits in the face of the kind of brutality that happens to Trump protestors. But never mind these people who typically are brutalized not just by Trump supporters, staff, and police when friends of mine are involved. When biases are confirmed, logic goes out the window.

One YouTube video is all it takes, apparently.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That is blatantly false. He won't stand up to protect LBGT, immigrants, or Muslims. It's nothing but folly to pretend he'll protect the rights and liberties of all Americans because he has said otherwise. He says an American of Mexican descent is not a "real" American, he says the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage is not right, and you don't have to look to hard to find his venom being spewed at Muslims.
Have sources for these claims?
I've looked into a bunch'o proffered quotes from Trump, & found that they're often
modified by the media (eg, NPR) to make them more bigoted than what he actually said.
At least she won't trample on minorities like Trump.
I wouldn't be so confident of this....especially if one is of brownish complexion &
living in Iran, Iraq, or any other Muslim country which makes her trigger finger itch..
And don't forget that she was a leading opponent of gay marriage at both the state
& federal level.

Trump is a loud mouthed boor, & Hillary is a powerful politician.
The latter strikes me as the more dangerous of the two.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I wouldn't be so confident of this....especially if one is of brownish complexion & living in Iran, Iraq, or any other Muslim country.
At least she wouldn't be promoting it like Trump. There wouldn't be questions concerning her position of Muslims coming into America.
And don't forget that she was a leading opponent of gay marriage at both the state & fed level.
Yes, but people change. As you said, she was a leading opponent, not is a leading opponent.
Have sources for these claims?
Trump assuming a judge of Mexican descent will inherently be biased in his decisions against Trump because Trump wants to build his wall.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-trump-tapper-lead/

The presumptive GOP nominee said U.S. District Court Judge Gonzalo Curiel, a federal district judge in the Southern District of California, has made "rulings that people can't even believe," and sees nothing remotely racist with his comment:
"He's proud of his his heritage. I respect him for that," Trump said, dismissing charges that his allegation was racist. "He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico."
...
At the end of a lengthy exchange, Tapper asked: "If you are saying he cannot do his job because of his race, is that not the definition of racism?"
"No, I don't think so at all," Trump said.

Trump on the gay marriage ruling:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/07/new-video-questions-trumps-stance-on-gay-marriage.html

At last week’s Fox News debate, for instance, he called the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage “an illegitimate and wrong decision.”
Trump on Muslims:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/
"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6545e8-2a1c-11e6-a3c4-0724e8e24f3f_story.html
Their concerns increased again Sunday after Trump said he thought a Muslim judge might treat him unfairly because he wants to temporarily ban most foreign Muslims from entering the country.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
This post will be made with a series of edits over the next 20 minutes......


At least she wouldn't be promoting it like Trump. There wouldn't be questions concerning her position of Muslims coming into America.
No, she'll bomb them in their home countries.
Which travesty is worse......
What Trump says he'll do, but cannot actually accomplish?
Or what Hillary has already done, & promises more of the same?
Yes, but people change. As you said, she was a leading opponent, not is a leading opponent.
How do we know?
With political winds permanently shifted to legal gay marriage, I don't think she'll go back to her original position.
But she's rather socially conservative, & I don't expect her to be very libertarian in her social policies or USSC justice picks.
Who is worse in this area, Donald or Hillary?
I don't know.

Trump assuming a judge of Mexican descent will inherently be biased in his decisions against Trump because Trump wants to build his wall.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/03/politics/donald-trump-tapper-lead/
While a bigoted & aggressive legal tactic, this doesn't support your claim that he says they're not "real" Americans.
Trump on the gay marriage ruling:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/07/new-video-questions-trumps-stance-on-gay-marriage.html

At last week’s Fox News debate, for instance, he called the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage “an illegitimate and wrong decision.”

But he did say that it's now the law of the land, so his position might actually be quite
similar to Hillary's, ie, reluctant acceptance of gay marriage. I don't trust either to stand
up for LeggyBetty (LGBT or whatever the current initialism is) rights.
Trump on Muslims:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/
"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on," a campaign press release said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...6545e8-2a1c-11e6-a3c4-0724e8e24f3f_story.html
Their concerns increased again Sunday after Trump said he thought a Muslim judge might treat him unfairly because he wants to temporarily ban most foreign Muslims from entering the country.
I note that you refer to his impending softened position, focusing upon countries representing a terrorist threat.
Nonetheless, his anti-Muslim rhetoric is indeed bad form which inflames enemies.
(Note that Hillary has said even worse about Iranians.)
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
69565748.jpg
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think that Cruz last night just threw his chance of getting any Republican nomination for much of anything beyond running for dog-catcher in the garbage.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I think that Cruz last night just threw his chance of getting any Republican nomination for much of anything beyond running for dog-catcher in the garbage.
It is a sad day when Ted Cruz of all people makes a personal sacrifice to challenge the tide of the Republican Party... and the shame is very much on the Party.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I was listening to Tony Schwartz last night and his comments about Trump, and if you're not familiar with Schwartz, he was hired by Trump to write a biography on him, and Trump praised the book and the author, saying that it was an all-time best seller just behind the Bible itself.

Schwartz, who spent months with Trump, says that he is an amoral "sociopath" who simply cannot be trusted.

Below is an article from NBC News on what Schwartz concluded that includes info on Trump's attempts to silence him by filing a lawsuit against him:

Tony Schwartz, ghostwriter of Donald Trump's book "The Art of the Deal," told MSNBC Wednesday that the Trump campaign sent him a cease and desist letter in response to his comments about the Republican candidate.

Schwartz, a former journalist, was employed by Trump to ghostwrite his memoir in 1987. In an interview with MSNBC, Schwartz described the Republican candidate for president as "having no heart and no soul."

The writer told the New Yorker this month that he genuinely believes "if Trump wins and gets the nuclear codes there is an excellent possibility it will lead to the end of civilization."

Schwartz said in the interview Wednesday evening with Rachel Maddow and Brian Williams that the Trump organization sent him a "cease and desist" letter for his comments about the candidate and demanded that he stop collecting, and repay, his royalties on the sale of "The Art of the Deal."
-- http://www.nbcnews.com/card/trump-campaign-trying-silence-art-deal-ghostwriter-n613686
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
It is a sad day when Ted Cruz of all people makes a personal sacrifice to challenge the tide of the Republican Party... and the shame is very much on the Party.
Agreed.
Regardless of where the expression started, when a man is booed for saying "Vote your conscience", then you the booer (is that a word?) are voting for the wrong person.
Those people booing (the entire delegate crowd) were telling Cruz (and America) to leave reason and individuality behind, and just fall in rank.
 
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