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Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?
- Thread starter Greatest I am
- Start date
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Have you seen the long term view instead of the short term one?
Stop and smell the roses. Em, em, good.
Regards
DL
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I keep my roses close to home....
the rest of the world is going to weed.....
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
IMO, it is the height of hubris to think our moral sense is greater than our Creator's. As Elihu said to Job; "Are you so convinced that you are right that you would say,‘I am more righteous than God'?" (Job 35:2) Normally, I do not view videos posted to support a position. If you have a point to make, make it yourself.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
I note that you did not speak to this pertinent fact.
"No child is responsible for what his parents do."
But Ok.
Seems you do not want to argue against the obvious so lets look at more obvious statements that you can try to ignore.
Here is my argument against substitutionary atonement that shows why what you count on for salvation is quite immoral.
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Human sacrifice is evil and God demanding one and accepting one is evil.
Those trying to profit from that evil are evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.
Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.
Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?
In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.
Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?
For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
Do you agree?
If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.
Regards
DL
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
If I don't kill innocent people, yes, apparently that makes me more righteous than how God is portrayed as a character. Remember that God Himself called Elihu's friends morons by the end of the story and they had to do penance for being thoughtless, compassionless jerks. I see far too many people read Job and take the side of the bad guys in the story (the human ones, anyway) rather than the "hero" of the story.