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Prayers to Allah by the other half

Yasin-shalal

Yasin-shalal
So you have no opinion on it?


What does that mean?
I dont dare passing negative judgement on a Muslim's Niyyat(intention). Maybe God likes her much more than me.
Any new bad thing which is added to Islamic Sunnah is regarded as Bid'ah and according to prophet(pbuh) each Muslim has a duty of dealing with Bid'ahs. I personally think, women calling for praying with loud voice among Muslims, is a bad Bid'ah. Their voices may influence the people and young boys in negative way.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I dont dare passing negative judgement on a Muslim's Niyyat(intention). Maybe God likes her much more than me.

Any new bad thing which is added to Islamic Sunnah is regarded as Bid'ah and according to prophet(pbuh) each Muslim has a duty of dealing with Bid'ahs. I personally think, women calling for praying with loud voice among Muslims, is a bad Bid'ah. Their voices may influence the people and young boys in negative way.

OK, got it. Thank you.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
No, correct according to the Quran and Sunnah.

Salaam,

Can you really claim to know what Allaah intended when He conveyed the Holy Qur'aan to the Prophet (saws) and sent him as the best example for us to follow? Everything is open to at least a degree of individual interpretation, dependent on our unique set of genetic predispositions, personality, outlook, attitudes, the environment we have been exposed to throughout our lives, including upbringing, personal circumstances, things that have happened to us, all shaping us and how we understand things in a variety of ways. So, unless you are claiming some form of Divine Revelation, you are either relying on your interpretation(s) of the Holy Qur'aan and example of the Prophet (saws), or those of one or more other people, or a mixture of your interpretation(s) and those of one or more others.

Wassalaam
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salaam,

Can you really claim to know what Allaah intended when He conveyed the Holy Qur'aan to the Prophet (saws) and sent him as the best example for us to follow? Everything is open to at least a degree of individual interpretation, dependent on our unique set of genetic predispositions, personality, outlook, attitudes, the environment we have been exposed to throughout our lives, including upbringing, personal circumstances, things that have happened to us, all shaping us and how we understand things in a variety of ways. So, unless you are claiming some form of Divine Revelation, you are either relying on your interpretation(s) of the Holy Qur'aan and example of the Prophet (saws), or those of one or more other people, or a mixture of your interpretation(s) and those of one or more others.

Wassalaam

People can't simply interpret the Quran and Sunnah the way they like it without any solid understanding. That would be just a game that anyone can play they way they see fit. The scholars are the best experts who understand the language, the meanings, etc. That is not to say individuals can't read the Quran for themselves, yes they can read it, understand it, and be guided by it, but non-scholars are not allowed to say what is halal and what haram blindly just because this is *their opinion*.

So are you a scholar who see the case at hand as ok and very halal?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
People can't simply interpret the Quran and Sunnah the way they like it without any solid understanding. That would be just a game that anyone can play they way they see fit. The scholars are the best experts who understand the language, the meanings, etc. That is not to say individuals can't read the Quran for themselves, yes they can read it, understand it, and be guided by it, but non-scholars are not allowed to say what is halal and what haram blindly just because this is *their opinion*.

So are you a scholar who see the case at hand as ok and very halal?

Salaam,

What makes 'the scholars' 'the best experts' in interpreting the Qur'aan?

As to a woman leading men in prayers, I don't have a problem with that.

Wassalaam
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
By the way, I think the title could use a revision. "Pray to Allah by the other half" is something normal and does not give any implication of the OP. Women do pray too as a general knowledge.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salaam,

What makes 'the scholars' 'the best experts' in interpreting the Qur'aan?

As to a woman leading men in prayers, I don't have a problem with that.

Wassalaam

What makes scholars in ANY field, experts in interpreting philosophical texts, history, astronomy, etc? It's the same! someone can't simply jump into the field without any solid foundations for his/her opinion, peer reviews, institutional body recognition, etc.

So, if the woman in question suddenly felt what she did is right, it will just be her mere opinion. What authority does she has? Did she study and memorize the Quran, did she study and memorized hadith? did she study Fiqh?
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Salaam,

What makes 'the scholars' 'the best experts' in interpreting the Qur'aan?

As to a woman leading men in prayers, I don't have a problem with that.

Wassalaam

If you don't mind me asking, are you a Muslim.

If you are then what madhhab or group of scholars or sect do you follow.

I have been having trouble understanding where you come from and what views you hold since you never seem to make a positive contribution other than ask useseless questions directed at Muslims.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
What makes scholars in ANY field, experts in interpreting philosophical texts, history, astronomy, etc? It's the same! someone can't simply jump into the field without any solid foundations for his/her opinion, peer reviews, institutional body recognition, etc.

So, if the woman in question suddenly felt what she did is right, it will just be her mere opinion. What authority does she has? Did she study and memorize the Quran, did she study and memorized hadith? did she study Fiqh?

Salaam,

The Qur'aan is not some philosophical text. And Islaam is not (just) a field of study like history or astronomy. Both the Qur'aan and Islaam are altogether something else. I do agree that one generally needs some grounding in the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and so on to be able to interpret the texts - and especially Eemaan. But one doesn't have to be a 'scholar' (in the usual sense of the word) to study and understand the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth, etc. And the 'scholars' do not have a monopoly on Eemaan.

If the woman in question suddenly felt that what she did was right, it could be her mere opinion. But it could be that Allaah gave her a sudden flash of inspiration. What greater authority than Allaah? Moreover, perhaps she has studied the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and Usool ul-Fiqh, but has come to a different understanding from the majority (that doesn't necessarily mean she is wrong). Do you know what she has and hasn't studied?

Wassalaam
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
If you don't mind me asking, are you a Muslim.

If you are then what madhhab or group of scholars or sect do you follow.

I have been having trouble understanding where you come from and what views you hold since you never seem to make a positive contribution other than ask useseless questions directed at Muslims.

Salaam,

I don't mind you asking. Yes, I am a Muslim (and Allaah knows Best). I can understand how many of the things of which I speak you (and others) find (extremely) challenging. For a long time, I struggled with them myself. My Madhhaab is the Madhhaab of Rasulullaah (saws). My Guide is Allaah SWT.

I am sorry if you feel I do not make a positive contribution. I can assure you, my questions (which are not just directed at other Muslims) have their uses. Some of them are aimed at understanding where someone else is coming from, others at showing what I believe to be the flawed reasoning of many Muslims (and non-Muslims) and leading people back to the path of the Holy Prophet (saws) (and his predecessors). For I believe that many Muslims have been led astray down the years since the death of our beloved Prophet (saws) (and, of course, I believe that those of other faiths have gone astray too).

Wassalaam
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salaam,

The Qur'aan is not some philosophical text. And Islaam is not (just) a field of study like history or astronomy. Both the Qur'aan and Islaam are altogether something else. I do agree that one generally needs some grounding in the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and so on to be able to interpret the texts - and especially Eemaan. But one doesn't have to be a 'scholar' (in the usual sense of the word) to study and understand the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth, etc. And the 'scholars' do not have a monopoly on Eemaan.

If the woman in question suddenly felt that what she did was right, it could be her mere opinion. But it could be that Allaah gave her a sudden flash of inspiration. What greater authority than Allaah? Moreover, perhaps she has studied the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and Usool ul-Fiqh, but has come to a different understanding from the majority (that doesn't necessarily mean she is wrong). Do you know what she has and hasn't studied?

Wassalaam

Some grounding in the Quran? no mister, not only some grounding. Scholars dedicate their whole life then they admit to not know enough. I don't have a problem if people felt *inspired*, they can do whatever they want if they felt it was right, but they need to keep studying and educating themselves. Nevertheless, they can't come up with things and ask people to follow them just because they felt like it. in this case it's not about her anymore, but about the people she might misguide!

What did she study? theology and Mideastern studies!!! does that qualify? where is the Quran, sunnah, and fiqh?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Some grounding in the Quran? no mister, not only some grounding. Scholars dedicate their whole life then they admit to not know enough. I don't have a problem if people felt *inspired*, they can do whatever they want if they felt it was right, but they need to keep studying and educating themselves. Nevertheless, they can't come up with things and ask people to follow them just because they felt like it. in this case it's not about her anymore, but about the people she might misguide!

What did she study? theology and Mideastern studies!!! does that qualify? where is the Quran, sunnah, and fiqh?

Salaam,

Just because the 'scholars' have spent their whole lives studying the Islaamic sciences, does not mean that they have necessarily reached the 'correct' understanding of Islaam (if there is indeed only one 'correct' understanding). I don't claim to know what the lady in question did or did not study, or the extent of her knowledge of the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and Usool ul-Fiqh. But equally well, you cannot make these claims also. She may be closer to the 'correct' understanding than the scholars, or she may be further away. Allaah knows Best. And Allaah gives guidance and inspiration to whom He wills. Did Allaah not guide an illiterate man to be his final Messenger?

I agree that we should not just come up with things and ask people to follow them because we feel like it. As you say, we may lead others astray thereby. If the lady in question has done this, this is certainly problematic. But perhaps she did not just come up with these ideas of hers just because she felt like it. Do you know where she got these ideas of hers from?

What I am ultimately trying to say here is that we need to be careful about assuming either that there is only one 'correct' understanding of Islaam or, if there is, that those we think have reached the correct understanding have in fact done so. There are many who you will look at and think are the most learned and pious of Muslims, by their dress or the length of their beard, or the words they utter, and there may be others you think are the least in knowledge and understanding, but in fact it may be the latter who are closest to Allaah.

Wassalaam
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salaam,

Just because the 'scholars' have spent their whole lives studying the Islaamic sciences, does not mean that they have necessarily reached the 'correct' understanding of Islaam (if there is indeed only one 'correct' understanding). I don't claim to know what the lady in question did or did not study, or the extent of her knowledge of the Qur'aan, Ahaadeeth and Usool ul-Fiqh. But equally well, you cannot make these claims also. She may be closer to the 'correct' understanding than the scholars, or she may be further away. Allaah knows Best. And Allaah gives guidance and inspiration to whom He wills. Did Allaah not guide an illiterate man to be his final Messenger?

I agree that we should not just come up with things and ask people to follow them because we feel like it. As you say, we may lead others astray thereby. If the lady in question has done this, this is certainly problematic. But perhaps she did not just come up with these ideas of hers just because she felt like it. Do you know where she got these ideas of hers from?

What I am ultimately trying to say here is that we need to be careful about assuming either that there is only one 'correct' understanding of Islaam or, if there is, that those we think have reached the correct understanding have in fact done so. There are many who you will look at and think are the most learned and pious of Muslims, by their dress or the length of their beard, or the words they utter, and there may be others you think are the least in knowledge and understanding, but in fact it may be the latter who are closest to Allaah.

Wassalaam

I agree that we don't know who is closer to God, but i'm not talking about personal closeness to Allah but about clear islamic teachings of Quran and Sunnah which anyone has to study before making their own *fatwas*. Guess what? she didn't study them, and she just *feel* it's the right thing to do. So, this will take us back to my first reply. It's up to her to believe what she wants but the correct teachings of Islam are clear for those who want to know the truth, period. And Allah knows best.
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
I agree that we don't know who is closer to God, but i'm not talking about personal closeness to Allah but about clear islamic teachings of Quran and Sunnah which anyone has to study before making their own *fatwas*. Guess what? she didn't study them, and she just *feel* it's the right thing to do. So, this will take us back to my first reply. It's up to her to believe what she wants but the correct teachings of Islam are clear for those who want to know the truth, period. And Allah knows best.

Salaam,

I think we're starting to loop and are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Wassalaam
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Salaam,

I don't mind you asking. Yes, I am a Muslim (and Allaah knows Best). I can understand how many of the things of which I speak you (and others) find (extremely) challenging. For a long time, I struggled with them myself. My Madhhaab is the Madhhaab of Rasulullaah (saws). My Guide is Allaah SWT.

I am sorry if you feel I do not make a positive contribution. I can assure you, my questions (which are not just directed at other Muslims) have their uses. Some of them are aimed at understanding where someone else is coming from, others at showing what I believe to be the flawed reasoning of many Muslims (and non-Muslims) and leading people back to the path of the Holy Prophet (saws) (and his predecessors). For I believe that many Muslims have been led astray down the years since the death of our beloved Prophet (saws) (and, of course, I believe that those of other faiths have gone astray too).

Wassalaam

But what exactly do you follow, was my question. You cannot be following the Prophet, salallahu alayhi wa salam, directly because he is dead.

To claim that you follow the Madhhab of the Prophet means you are the only and oldest surviving Sahabi. It also shows me that you don't understand this matter very well. The Sahaba, radiallhu anhum, had more right in following Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, than you and I have, yet after his death it was the Madhhab of Abu Bakr, radiallahu anhu, that they had to follow and so on with the other three Khulafah until it came to the time of the Great Imams who formulated fiqh and all other sciences and of which to this day only 4 schools survived.

If you claim you follow Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, through the Hadith, then again, it shows how little you understand the matter because if you turn to the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, you are turning to the Shafi Madhhab, because he followed the Shafi Madhhab, and the same if you turn to the books of Hadith, Imam Bukhari and his student Imam Muslim were both following the Shafi Madhhab. So in a way whether you like it or not you cannot but follow one of the 4 surviving Madhhabs.

So I ask again, how are you following the Madhhab of Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, if all the information that is available to us comes from someone who follows a Madhhab themselves?
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
But what exactly do you follow, was my question. You cannot be following the Prophet, salallahu alayhi wa salam, directly because he is dead.

To claim that you follow the Madhhab of the Prophet means you are the only and oldest surviving Sahabi. It also shows me that you don't understand this matter very well. The Sahaba, radiallhu anhum, had more right in following Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, than you and I have, yet after his death it was the Madhhab of Abu Bakr, radiallahu anhu, that they had to follow and so on with the other three Khulafah until it came to the time of the Great Imams who formulated fiqh and all other sciences and of which to this day only 4 schools survived.

If you claim you follow Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, through the Hadith, then again, it shows how little you understand the matter because if you turn to the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, you are turning to the Shafi Madhhab, because he followed the Shafi Madhhab, and the same if you turn to the books of Hadith, Imam Bukhari and his student Imam Muslim were both following the Shafi Madhhab. So in a way whether you like it or not you cannot but follow one of the 4 surviving Madhhabs.

So I ask again, how are you following the Madhhab of Rasulallah, salallahu alayhi wa salam, if all the information that is available to us comes from someone who follows a Madhhab themselves?

Salaam,

My Source is a different one, essentially Independent from the traditions that have come down to us. Allaah speaks to me, directly, explaining what the Madhhaab of Rasulullaah (saws) in truth is. So that is how I can claim to follow his Madhhaab directly.

The Sahaabah did not have more right to make this claim than you or I. Recall what the Holy Prophet (saws) said in his final sermon: that those listening to him should pass his words on to others, and those to others again, and that those who heard them last would understand them better than those who heard them from him directly.

As regards following the four remaining traditional Sunni Madhaahib, let me copy and paste my answer from your other thread (entitled something like 'Do you follow a Madhhab, if so which one?'):

'Wrt the likes of Imaams Shaafi'i, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Maalik ibn Anas and Abu Haneefah (other Madhaahib were known in earlier times), they also advised us to follow the Madhhab of Rasulullaah saws rather than them. So, for example, Imaam Shaafi'i said:

'Every statement on the authority of the Prophet (saws) is also my view, even if you do not hear it from me', 'when a hadeeth is found to be saheeh, then that is my Madhhab' and 'the Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a Sunnah of Rasulullaah (saws) is made clear to someone, it is not lawful for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else'.'

Wassalaam
 
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