Rejection of Christ

jonny said:

Honestly, salvation is more of a gift in Mormonism than it is in any other Christian denomination. It's the only Christian denomination where Christ saves EVERYONE except those who knowingly reject him.

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This isn't about Mormonism, it just happens that jonny was the one that said it, i've heard other Christians say this too. I just want to make this clear that this isn't an anti-mormon thread from the start.

Ok. The bit i've highlighted doesn't make sense to me. I know where the idea comes from, that if you reject Christ as your saviour then you reject his gift and so cannot be saved.

But, how can someone knowingly reject him? And more importantly who would?

Think about it, if you knew that Jesus Chrsit was the Son of God and you knew that you would not go to heaven if you didn't believe - who in their right mind would reject him?

Atheists don't know that Christ is the saviour, no one does - its a matter of faith. To the Atheist or the Muslim or the Buddhist, the evidence isn't sufficient to warrent belief in Christ as the saviour.
Knowingly rejecting Christ relies on the person actively believing in Christ, but then rejecting him anyway. No one knowingly rejects Christ, if they reject him its because they don't know.

Am I wrong?

no, i think you're right, and the idea that atheists and people that maintain their faith in other religions even when aware of christianity 'knowingly rejects christ' is solely based on christian fantasies.

EDIT : as i said somewhere before, christians present a weak case to say the least (and i think we can establish that quite objectively, using common and general standards of proof and/or probability) in front of atheists. it's like saying we knowingly reject the divinity of winnie the pooh.

It's denying the Holy Ghost. It's what the sons of perdition did, when they knowingly rejected Christ to follow Satan. It's those people that it would be better for them to have never been born. It's those who it will be better for Sodom and Ghomorrah on the last day than for them.

Halcyon said:

This isn't about Mormonism, it just happens that jonny was the one that said it, i've heard other Christians say this too. I just want to make this clear that this isn't an anti-mormon thread from the start.

Ok. The bit i've highlighted doesn't make sense to me. I know where the idea comes from, that if you reject Christ as your saviour then you reject his gift and so cannot be saved.

But, how can someone knowingly reject him? And more importantly who would?

Think about it, if you knew that Jesus Chrsit was the Son of God and you knew that you would not go to heaven if you didn't believe - who in their right mind would reject him?

Atheists don't know that Christ is the saviour, no one does - its a matter of faith. To the Atheist or the Muslim or the Buddhist, the evidence isn't sufficient to warrent belief in Christ as the saviour.
Knowingly rejecting Christ relies on the person actively believing in Christ, but then rejecting him anyway. No one knowingly rejects Christ, if they reject him its because they don't know.

Am I wrong?

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To knowingly reject Christ means pretty much what it says. You have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt who he is and what he has done for you and then reject him. Most people will never have the opportunity to knowingly reject Christ in this life. Actually, very few people will have the opportunity.

Wel... I can honestly say I've done that. Guess I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a while.

ChrisP said:

Wel... I can honestly say I've done that. Guess I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a while.

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I seriously doubt that you have ever been anywhere near to having the opportunity to do it.

Wel... I can honestly say I've done that. Guess I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a while.

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You know that Jesus is the Son of God, Divine, and that He came to earth to free us from the hold of death... yet you reject Him?

I know that's what the bible teaches. I used to believe it was true.

ChrisP said:

I know that's what the bible teaches.

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That says it all. You knew that was what the Bible teaches.

I used to believe it was true.

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This also says it all. You used to believe it was true. USED to. You no longer believe it. Those who deny Christ STILL know who he is. (Not just believe. Know.) Then, they knowingly and decidedly turn against him.

I see. Well, I can sleep safer and sounder in the knowledge Thanks Miss Tull *hug*

Well I am in the same boat as I used to believe in that name as well, being that I was raised a Southern Baptist, but I no longer do. I can honestly say, and be at perfect peace, that I can reject jesus as my Saviour. Though I do not believe that I will suffer anymore than I may already for anything else. I believe in another name. That name would be Yahshua. I don't believe that Yahshua is the Most High. In otherwords........ It is written that Yahshua is a Mighty Elohim but no where does it state that He is the Almighty Elohim. That title is reserved for YAH. Therefore He is a part of the Elohim family being that He is now translated into that new being as he was before some of the Disciples on the mount when they saw Him with Moshe' and Eliyah. That makes him equal with the angels (Malakhim) somewhat, for they themselves are Elohim. He is higher than the Malakhim. See, even the Malakhim are Sons of Elohim (B'nai Elohim). Some men are elohim as well as B'nai Elohim. Its just that the Malak that abode in Yahshua was the only begotten B'nai Elohim. Yahshua was in the beginning only a flesh and blood man that came from the direct seed of Melek Daweed (King David) and the egg of Miryam (Mary). It wasn't until the purification, or baptism if you will, that the flesh became dead to sin and was thus clean for the Spirit (Malak) to descend down as a dove and abode on Him. "For all men have sinned". That is when the ministry started. He said Himself that the works and the words did not come from Him Himself but that which abode in Him.

I posted this only to show my reasoning in being able to reject that of mans foolish heart.

Aqualung said:

It's denying the Holy Ghost. It's what the sons of perdition did, when they knowingly rejected Christ to follow Satan. It's those people that it would be better for them to have never been born. It's those who it will be better for Sodom and Ghomorrah on the last day than for them.

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In your opinion; remember, we don't read from the same book. Having said that, if that is what you believe, good for you.

I happen to believe that many will not believe in Jesus Christ (or God) until they feel his presence at their death. To my mind,the person who accepts Christ at the time of Death will be just as 'equal' as anyone else.

Nobody knows that Christ is the Son of a (diminishing) God. So they cannot knowingly defy him.

ChrisP said:

Wel... I can honestly say I've done that. Guess I'm going to be in a lot of pain for a while.

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You're dang right about that pain, ChrisP! I happen to know that your destined punishment at this point is to be reincarnated as an esthetically sensitive person into mainstream American pop culture. You will spend your next life surrounded by the music of twelve year old girls! Repent now!

Sunstone said:

You're dang right about that pain, ChrisP! I happen to know that your destined punishment at this point is to be reincarnated as an esthetically sensitive person into mainstream American pop culture. You will spend your next life surrounded by the music of twelve year old girls! Repent now!

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Eep! Someone baptise me pronto! You seem to have a good understanding of hell Sunstone, can you tell me... will there be jacuzzis?

Find yourself in oppression or torment or lose all your loved ones or be at the point of death and I guarentee you will seek for a saviour and mercy and rest. Rest from your worries, the hope of a resurrection the forgivness of sins. Christ has the power to do all these things. So if you reject him then the only hope you have is in earthly things.which are only temporary.

kassi said:

Find yourself in oppression or torment or lose all your loved ones or be at the point of death and I guarentee you will seek for a saviour and mercy and rest. Rest from your worries, the hope of a resurrection the forgivness of sins. Christ has the power to do all these things. So if you reject him then the only hope you have is in earthly things.which are only temporary.

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Ha! The extended warranty for my bread-maker reads identically.

kassi said:

Find yourself in oppression or torment or lose all your loved ones or be at the point of death and I guarentee you will seek for a saviour and mercy and rest. Rest from your worries, the hope of a resurrection the forgivness of sins. Christ has the power to do all these things. So if you reject him then the only hope you have is in earthly things.which are only temporary.

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Do you think the Buddha was seeking Christ then when he described life as dukkha?

The way I see it, this notion that people reject Christ is just a bit of petty psychological marketing for the Christian product.

I see no reason to believe that non-Christians who are pitched the Christian message are necessarily rejecting Christ any more profoundly than one rejects the notion there are invisible toads hopping in ones living room.

That is, to some people the Christian message is simply absurd, and rejecting it has absolutely no more to do with a distaste for Christ than rejecting invisible toads necessarily has something to do with an animosity towards toads.

michel said:

In your opinion;

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OH, I'm sorry. Did he ask for somebody else's opinion?