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Is God Helpless under the Realm of Free Will????

Bird123

Bird123

Well-Known Member
In the past when I got into an argument over Hell, I asked the question: If God created Hell knowing someone would actually go there, wouldn't God be a Monster? The answer I received back was that since we all have free will, God is helpless to stop one from going to Hell if they choose Hell for themselves.

Is God really helpless within the realm of free will? I think not.

I was walking through a store one day. A lady was demonstrating some fancy cookware. I don't remember the name. To make a long story short, before she was done with me, I purchased all the cookware. The funny thing was I didn't need cookware, nor did I want cookware, however I bought all the cookware under my own free will.

I know a man who is the world's greatest salesman. He says that a salesman knows he is good when he can sell someone something they don't need or want and make them happy they bought it. This saleslady did just that to me.

This brings us to the point. Is God not capable of doing the very same thing? I have free will and I have cookware now. Wouldn't Hell be empty if God cares at all and yes, under the realm of free will?

So this brings us to the question: Is God a Monster or not? I think not. The concept of Hell is what does not add up.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Bird123 said:
So this brings us to the question: Is God a Monster or not? I think not. The concept of Hell is what does not add up.
Click to expand...
Hell really should just mean the grave in the bible. No eternal life or resurrection means rotting in the ground.
http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html

On that note I will say something that doesn't make sense, is resurrecting evil people from the grave just to throw them into a lake of fire to torture for eternity. Certainly doesn't sound like that of a merciful just and good god. I don't know about the book of Revelations. Revelations is probably the bloodiest book I've ever read. That book probably supposed to be all metaphor anyway making it hard to discern.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/index.html
 
Burl

Burl

Active Member
Your concept of Hell maybe misled. The fire of God's wrath is having our own ways visited upon us. It's in both the Old and New Testaments. The tenants of Hell are comfortable until they don't like what's happening to them, and then they either change their ways or become accustomed to their lot.
 
C

C-Faith

Member
idav said:
Hell really should just mean the grave in the bible. No eternal life or resurrection means rotting in the ground.
http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html

The scriptures teach otherwise (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9)

On that note I will say something that doesn't make sense, is resurrecting evil people from the grave just to throw them into a lake of fire to torture for eternity. Certainly doesn't sound like that of a merciful just and good god. I don't know about the book of Revelations. Revelations is probably the bloodiest book I've ever read. That book probably supposed to be all metaphor anyway making it hard to discern.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/index.html
Click to expand...

It is not for you to think for God. You didn't create the Heavens and Earth (Genesis 1: 1-2)
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
It is not for you to think for God. You didn't create the Heavens and Earth (Genesis 1: 1-2)
Click to expand...
Not even that, the first and last book of the bible are like two different gods. The last book, like I said is the most brutal thing I've ever heard.
 
C

C-Faith

Member
idav said:
Not even that, the first and last book of the bible are like two different gods. The last book, like I said is the most brutal thing I've ever heard.
Click to expand...
idav said:
Not even that, the first and last book of the bible are like two different gods. The last book, like I said is the most brutal thing I've ever heard.
Click to expand...

Blame mankind for the brutality, not God.

Ecclesiates 7: 29

Look at the news from all over the world - not God's fault.......
 
C

C-Faith

Member
George-ananda said:
I think not also.

I have dropped belief in the concept of Hell myself. I wonder why the concept still lingers.
Click to expand...

You can drop whatever you wish, but again the scriptures point to Hell (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9).

Since the bible is the word of God, we should "hear" it.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
Blame mankind for the brutality, not God.

Ecclesiates 7: 29

Look at the news from all over the world - not God's fault.......
Click to expand...
Oh right, thats right, he is that brutal in Genesis. With the mass flood and all, and it was said we all deserved it cause of all the wickedness. Still is that supposed to be a merciful good and just god, to torture people for an eternity, are people to take Revelations literally? I don't think most denominations stuck to an eternal hell cause most rational people can see how unusually cruel that is.
 
C

C-Faith

Member
idav said:
Oh right, thats right, he is that brutal in Genesis. With the mass flood and all, and it was said we all deserved it cause of all the wickedness. Still is that supposed to be a merciful good and just god, to torture people for an eternity, are people to take Revelations literally? I don't think most denominations stuck to an eternal hell cause most rational people can see how unusually cruel that is.
Click to expand...

In Genesis chapter 6 we read about WHY did what He did.

It was because of the WICKEDNESS of man.

Now look at the world today.

You are only giving your opinions and feelings (Proverbs 14: 12).

Now you need to read the scriptures...........
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
You can drop whatever you wish, but again the scriptures point to Hell (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9).

Since the bible is the word of God, we should "hear" it.
Click to expand...
It also points to Noah's Ark, Adam and Eve, etc.. I consider things beyond the Bible in forming my worldview.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
You are only giving your opinions and feelings (Proverbs 14: 12).
Click to expand...
I was asking about your interpretation on hell being eternal torture by a loving god? Cause different denominations say different things, interpret the scriptures differently.

You read the bible.....http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html
That shows that hell is really just the grave, coming from straight from the bible with proper translations on the word sheol, hades and gehenna.
 
C

C-Faith

Member
idav said:
I was asking about your interpretation on hell being eternal torture by a loving god? Cause different denominations say different things, interpret the scriptures differently.

You read the bible.....http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html
That shows that hell is really just the grave, coming from straight from the bible with proper translations on the word sheol, hades and gehenna.
Click to expand...

Read 2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9

Now if you don't read scripture, then how would you know what Hell really is?

?
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
Read 2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9

Now if you don't read scripture, then how would you know what Hell really is?

?
Click to expand...
Why do you insist on ignoring what the torah has to say about it? Can we assume for a moment I have read the bible? I pointed you to a valid argument, twice now.
 
C

C-Faith

Member
idav said:
Why do you insist on ignoring what the torah has to say about it? Can we assume for a moment I have read the bible? I pointed you to a valid argument, twice now.
Click to expand...

Who is Lord? It is Jesus Christ. (Philippians 2: 11)

Why do you ignore the words of Jesus, who will judge all of us? (2 Corinthians 5: 10-11)

Read Matthew 13: 50
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
C-Faith said:
Who is Lord? It is Jesus Christ. (Philippians 2: 11)

Why do you ignore the words of Jesus, who will judge all of us? (2 Corinthians 5: 10-11)

Read Matthew 13: 50
Click to expand...
Please spare the preaching . Here is from the link you refuse to look at.
"
'sheol' in the Hebrew is interpolated 'hell' or translated 'grave' or 'pit' in the Old Testament. Psalm 6:5, 9:17, 30:3; Numbers 16:30,33
'hades' in the Greek is translated 'grave' or interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. 1Corinthians 15:55, Matthew11:21, 16:18
gehenna' in the Greek is interpolated 'hell' in the New Testament. Matthew 5:22, 23:15; Luke 12:5"
http://www.bibleed.com/hell-and-the-grave.html
 
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