blue taylor
Active Member
Why do you assume I use the Bible?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why does it seem that God never intervenes in Human Suffering
- Thread starter Serenity7855
- Start date
blue taylor
Active Member
All is one.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
Absolutely correct. Great answer and straight to the point.
Last edited:
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
There are not a few ambiguous Biblical passages that teach that there is only one God, but many explicit passages that clearly declare this cardinal truth. Each of the following 28 passages explicitly teach that there is one — and only one — true and living God.
1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text.]
3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.
13. Isaiah43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he:before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
14. Isaiah44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, andthat there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
25. Ephesians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
27. 1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You said "serp did not put it down to "just genetics." Neither did I nor anyone else on this thread", quite why you have said anyone else on this thread I cannot fathom. You said in Post #549: "Anyhoo Alcoholism is genetic". Serp777 said in Post #482 "Also alcoholism is genetic". If I were to have said it I would have said "Alcoholism is both genetic and environmental conditioning. I would have said that to prevent any ambiguity, as both you and serp777 post have. But if the truth be known you probably did think that alcoholism is solely down to genetics, as you actually said, and you are now back pedaling .
Last edited:
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Present any evidence you want. The Bible, being one source.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Most of these seem contextual , or specific to the G-d of Yisrael. Specificity , does not necessarily mean that is /for sure/, only one deity. There are verses that when taken literally, imply that there are 'other gods'; likewise, the verses you are presenting, seem similarly contextual as to emphasis..
I notice that you are saying something here that I did not bring up, 'true god'.. /that wasn't what I asked for, was it? //evidentially?
This does not explicitly state that there is only one deity. It says that the G-d in the context is the greatest.
'thy G-d ' is specific contextual. We know that the G-d in reference is one G-d //monotheism
This again, states that there is no god 'with', the one Deity. //The specific deity
You are reading this incorrectly, in my opnion, if you think that this is a 'statement' that there /exists only one deity. This verse is a praise/verse
Again, the wording inference is a bit tricky, but this reads /to me at least, of the nature of the deity. Not of the idea that there aren't other deities,
Verse relating to adherence. The specificity need not indicate that there aren't other deities, only that the person is following the one G-d.
Again, an adherence verse. This is saying the Deity is the main deity , or the greatest deity.
Perhaps you missed the .possible/, inference here, that there may be other deities. ''There is none like thee''. Now, this is also the same type of wording as found elsewhere, or rather inference. Namely, it's a praise verse
Reference to the host of the heavens, which may or may not include other deities. Not specific
This is blatantly not a statement that there is only one deity.
Again, you are making inferences in the wording, that aren't necessarily there. This verse, /like the others/, is contextual as to individual worship, or a praise verse.
The Deity being referenced is in context to the person talking/ praise verse
Here we do have a possible inference to the question, but it isn't very blatant, and again, it's contextual //G-d of Yisrael.
Contextual, G-d of Yisrael. // specificity inferences in these verses.
Context, and meaning thusly inferred from that.
Context again. We know it's contextual, because the Covenant is with the Israelites. /among other things,,
This is specific to the audience. We know this from context
The context of the statements, infers the meaning, or what cannot be inferred, as well
If anything this could be an indication that there are other deities, Sort of joking, here, but this verse is not even close to what is supposed to be presented
context of the statements
This could even infer that there are other deities//
Yes, the G-d being referenced. The Deity is described thusly, contextually, not blatantly.
This verse states outright that there are other gods. //
The G-d being referenced, is one. It is not a statement, that He is the only g-d that exists.
And this is actually contextual as well. //specific audience.
Specific G-d reference
This can also be understood as specific G-d reference. In fact, if we understand it the way you are presenting it, then theoretically, people worshipping false deities, so forth, could claim authority to there adherence, since they //theoretically/, would be worshipping the same deity. That isn't the correct inference, obviously
Could be a specific reference, most likely is, or rather, contextually specific in description. from this verse presented without context, it certainly isn't stating that no other deities exist.
Last edited:
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
The two biggest interventions are divine revelation and miracles. It would not only interfere with human decisions in that way, they'd violate rational natural law which is necessary for us to be able to learn to be rational, and that in order for us to be able to make rational moral decisions. How can that be made simpatico with your revealed (apparent) religion?
There is no fundamental contradiction between that statement and what I have been saying.
How does God speak to you? Or to put it differently, how do God's Voices come to you?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yes I did point out that that poster "did not put it down to ‘just genetics’ because in post #482, (s)he said this:
“You really need to educate yourself on genetics before making all of these claims. Here's just one source showing how wrong you are. I have dozens of other sources too.
Genes that affect emotion and personality:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21835681
Also, you're implying a false Dilemma--its not that either genes do determine our actions or they don't. Genes interact with the environment to shape us and our actions. Genes have an effect that combined with the environment leads to traits we have. Genes don't solely determine us, but they greatly affect the outcomes. Also, the environment isn't decided by us anyways, so really most of our decisions are a result of things that aren't our choices. You would make entirely different decisions if you were born in india 1000 years ago.
Regardless, the point is that we don't have full free will. We only have partial free will, or sometimes no free will, that determines what we do. You might think you have a choice, but its possible you're predisposed to having religious experiences, and then combined with your family means you're very likely to be religious. That's an example of environmental and genetic factors making you believe what you believe. You could have also had a gene that makes you predisposed to skepticism and doubt, which means that you would be an atheist or an agnostic.”
Which clearly is not “just putting it down to genetics.”
Much earlier in the discussion (post #451), I said this:
“Genetics play a role in the regulation and sensitivity of our emotions. It’s one of the reasons people react differently to the same situation. It’s one of the reasons some people are more anxious than others. It’s one of the reasons some people suffer from severe depression and others don’t.
There is no single “gay gene” or “pedophilia gene” in the same way there is no “heterosexual gene.” We’ve been over the factors involved in these things many times before.
There are several genes associated with alcoholism and addiction that can contribute to a person’s risk of developing those behaviors; given the presence of certain environmental cues and stimuli that person is exposed to during the course of their lifetime. (The presence of such genes alone doesn’t guarantee that the person will become an alcohol or a drug addict.)
I don’t know who these sinister people are who want to find a pedophile gene so they can legalize child molestation. And I fail to see the logic in that argument.”
The truth has now been revealed and as it turns out, I've been speaking the truth since the beginning. Nice try at a putdown though.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
How does god communicate with you?
blue taylor
Active Member
Lucid dreams, and sometimes deep meditation.
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You appear to be trying to tell your grandmother how to suck eggs. You forget so very quickly that I am the one who has corrected your misunderstanding on how genes contribute to our persona. I know that genes and the environment mold us into who we are. After all, I didn't say that alcoholism is genetics, as you did. However, you seem to have not fully understood the complexities and shear scale involved in environmental conditioning and the enormous effect it has on our decision making that ultimately creates a norm in our society. You also need to take into consideration the choices other people make that will effect your choices, that is, what we call, our environment. The environment contains other human being who are partially molded by their genes. We interact with those people and they influence us to varying degrees, The more people that we interact with the more likely our beliefs and characters will be molded, which is why we tell our children not to mix with the bad boys. So, we now have genes that have been greatly influenced and changed by someone else's combination of environment and genes, that we didn't get from our parents. Our children will inherit the genes that I have, genes that have been influenced and changed by those I interact with. And the process continues to a degree that is quiet incomprehensible to perceive watering down the gene pool, which has created this God awful society that we live in, and making us all connected to each other, however, we can still say no. Science can make it's claims and assertion but it can never understand the resulting complexity of the intermingling of human traits, that are the result of the massive changes, over time, in our genes that result from environmental conditioning. That is why those in different cultures have different norms to us. If we had no environmental conditionings then we would eventually created clones having all the same characteristic and values. Genes need the environmental conditioning as does out society need the complexities of emotions and values that genes brings to it. One without the other is completely untenable. It cannot work. So the next time that a gay man tells you that he was born gay you can tell him that he was not born gay but it was the environment that made him gay. The environment that influenced genes that are conducive to our sexuality. A gay gene(s) can never be held responsible for and character trait without living with other humans.
And although this is all very interesting, and it is, we are still the ultimate owners of our choices and therefore solely accountable for them. But there is something more within us that is not the result of biology. Something that every one can feel within the core of our being. It sets us apart from every other living organism on our planet. Many call it the light of Christ or our conscience but it is what ultimately determines whether the choice we make are good or bad. Something other then, and independent of, genes or environment that molds them. In my opinion it is the spirit of who we once were before our mortal probation began, and who we will again become when we shed the mantle of this earthly body. It is a construction of pure energy and has a tangibility far more refined then anything we know, probably consisting of the same type of quarks and electrons, and many more subatomic particles, that we find in quantum physics, and is intertwined, or as they call it in quantum physics, entanglement with every cell in our body. The world is full of evidences of that spirit of awareness from telepathy to intuition to premonitions. It is what has the final say in our decision making that encompasses our ethics and morality.
Every choice we make is based on our knowledge, experience, intelligence, faith that we are choosing the right, ethic to know we are doing what is right, empathy to know what it will feel like for those involved in our choice, compassion to change our decision if we recognise negativity in it, cognitive awareness to reason the results of our choices, deductive reasoning and integrity to insure that our final decision will be the best one for all concerned. It is not just saying yes or no without conscience. There is much thought that goes into the process of making the right choices.
The weakest link in all of this is genetics. They are very much necessary, however, they are vulnerable and susceptible to mutations and changes through environmental factors. At the end of the day our choices are not the result of innocent, unreliable, unpredictable and ever changing biological factors that determine our actions and may or may not act on our senses dependant upon our environment,
Genes cannot be responsible for us drinking alcohol until they firstly know what alcohol is to act upon it. We are not born with that knowledge it is our experiences and memories taken from our world that causes us to know what alcohol is. You cannot say that a gene, or set of genes, are solely responsible for alcoholism if those genes have never been exposed to alcohol and its negative effects on society. If that were true then it would be quiet miraculous for it to cause one to be a alcoholic without the influence of our environment, that contains alcohol that will effect those vulnerable and impressionable genes. Never expose those genes to alcohol and you will never become an alcoholic. Similarly with any individual or combination of genes. They are not brought into this world corrupted by the environment. They are not aware of sexual attraction until the environment teaches them what it is, creating a situation where we must choose. it is who we are as a result of our environment not who we are as a result of our genes because they are completely inert to moral accountability to the wrongs and rights of our society until environmental conditioning changes all of that. That is where it is free will, or, at least our will as it isn't free because our choices always have consequences on both ourselves and those we interact with..
Then why did you say that it is down to genetics. That is what you said. I quoted your post containing your words.
Well, you are the one that brought it up here, not me, so your insinuation is without substance and purely intended to greatly offend and insult someone.
The truth has now been revealed and as it turns out, I've been speaking the truth since the beginning. Nice try at a putdown though.
If you interpret correction as a putdown then your to sensitive to be here.
Your truth and reality have long since separated.
Last edited:
Serenity7855
Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists
You said: "Find me the verse, in the Bible, that states, that there is only one god." Of course I could be misinterpreting it, however, it would be very unlikely. You are asking someone to show you where in the bible does it say that there is only one God? I am no scriptorian but I know that there are scriptures that say that, exactly, so I took a cursory look on the internet and found this list of 28 scripture, that if looked at objectively contain the statement that you have asked for. `
With all due respects to you and your beliefs, you are feigning ignorance to these scriptures by misinterpreting them to suit your belief. It is something that we are all guilty of at times.
Just to give you an example.
1. Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him
"There is none else besides Him," tells me that He is the only God because there is literally none other like Him.
2. Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
"neither is there any God beside thee." Again, I can only conclude from this statement that because there is no other God besides Him then He must be the only one.
3. That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
This is possibly the clearest statement of them all, "the LORD is God, and that there is none else." This tells us that the LORD is God and that there is none else, making Him the only one.
All 28 scripture are equally as clear as these three.
"There is none else besides Him," tells me that He is the only God because there is literally none other like Him.
2. Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
"neither is there any God beside thee." Again, I can only conclude from this statement that because there is no other God besides Him then He must be the only one.
3. That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
This is possibly the clearest statement of them all, "the LORD is God, and that there is none else." This tells us that the LORD is God and that there is none else, making Him the only one.
All 28 scripture are equally as clear as these three.
She talks to me, in Voices I can hear inside my head, as if someone is speaking to me. And I converse with Her.
You mean God comes to you in a particular form and/or speaks to you in a particular Voice in these dreams or whilst you are in deep meditation, as a person would? Or that you come to greater awareness or a (sudden) realisation about the Nature of Reality through these dreams or whilst in deep meditation?
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
blue taylor
Active Member
The second choice.
Okay, so how do you know that it is God who is the source of these feelings of greater awareness/realisation, rather than another being, or indeed your own self?
blue taylor
Active Member
It is not a being. It is not an entity. It is not me.