Can science disprove the existence of God?

Crypto2015 said:

I am amazed at how many high-calibre scientists are out to demonstrate that science disproves the existence of God. This amazes me because in general all science students learn at least a little bit of philosophy of science. One of the most basic principles in philosophy of science is that of falsifiability. A statement is falsifiable if there is an observation (either experimental or logical) that can demonstrate that the statement is false. For example, the statement “all cats are black” can easily be disproven by finding a cat that is not black. Similarly, the statement “parallel straight lines meet at some point” is false by definition. However, statements such as “this cat ought to be black” are unfalsifiable because it is impossible to demonstrate what something ought to be. Another example of an unfalsifiable statement is “if I had been born in Nigeria, I would be two meters tall”. These statements are unscientific because they are unfalsifiable. Science cannot tell us anything about them. It can neither prove them nor disprove them. However, an unfalsifiable statement may be true. For example, “mothers ought to love their children” is unfalsifiable and unscientific, but may be true nonetheless. The existence of God is unfalsifiable. Therefore, science cannot tell us anything about it. Claiming that this is not so is demonstrating a profound ignorance of what science is and is not. Please share your thoughts on the matter.

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Sorry sir.. But you are wrong...
What you state here is called "Argument of ignorance"...

If that was the case.. every one who had an idea in his head would be considered as a developer of a scientific theory...
I cannot say: There are green monsters with 20 eyes in their forehead! I SAW ONE!

This will not make this statement true just because no one can prove it is false!
It will however can be stated as possible....

Now...
Lets talk a bit about possibility...
possibility is stating there is a chance of something to be true..
Incomes.. probability!

some one can be possible but not very probable.. like green monsters with 20 eyes...
but if i were to say.. i saw a Hugh crocodile with 3 eyes!!!
this claim even if not proven.. have a much higher probability to be true then a green monster with 20 eyes.

both claims are a possibility... but one of them is much more probable..

if i were to say "I Saw a Hugh crocodile"..
No one will doubt this statement.. because past knowledge and past evidence makes the probability of this statement very high!!!

yet it still doesn't mean its true!!!!

So yes...
we have two theories:

A big bang created the universe : its only a possibility! but with very high probability (based on enormous amount of evidence)
or
An Immortal, invisible all powerful intelligent being created the universe...
It is possible.. but the probability for that is close to 0! there is not even one small proof that makes this statement probability better!
Not even one!!!!

Segev Moran said:

So yes...
we have two theories:

A big bang created the universe : its only a possibility! but with very high probability (based on enormous amount of evidence)
or
An Immortal, invisible all powerful intelligent being created the universe...
It is possible.. but the probability for that is close to 0! there is not even one small proof that makes this statement probability better!
Not even one!!!!

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There is a third position...that of the pantheist.....there was never a beginning....the concept of God is this context is that it represents all that exists, it is eternal and the ever changing detectable universe known to humans is merely its manifestation.....though it forever remains an indivisible one...

ben d said:

There is a third position...that of the pantheist.....there was never a beginning....the concept of God is this context is that it represents all that exists, it is eternal and the ever changing detectable universe known to humans is merely its manifestation.....though it forever remains an indivisible one...

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Yes.. I Know... There are a lot more theories...
I just picked those two as they are the main debate of this post.
There are for example:

We were created by Aliens
We are all nothing but a computer simulation
We are in a dream state and the dreams are the actual reality
And many more

All of which BTW.. are possible... the question is what is the probability of each of them being true

Segev Moran said:

Yes.. I Know... There are a lot more theories...
I just picked those two as they are the main debate of this post.
There are for example:

We were created by Aliens
We are all nothing but a computer simulation
We are in a dream state and the dreams are the actual reality
And many more

All of which BTW.. are possible... the question is what is the probability of each of them being true

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Yes....as a way of looking at it....they may all have some validity... the real is forever on the other side of the conceptual description/ understanding...

ben d said:

Omnipresent in my understanding....the spirit that is sent forth to create from the clay does not leave a vacuum behind it...all spiritual beings of the celestial hierarchy have their being in the divine spirit of God. Iow, there is universal spirit which is God, and there are the celestial hierarchical holarchy which are aspects of God's manifestation...all are spirit...

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You are Not alone because many think God is omnipresent, but according to Scripture God has a specific location - 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:43; 1 Kings 8:49 - Not omnipresent.
From that heavenly location or home God sends forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30
Could it be said as part of a ' universal spirit ' there are other spirits such as ' school spirit ' or even a high-spirited horse.
A pep rally is designed to create ' school spirit ' but that does Not make it a celestial spirit from God.

Segev Moran said:

Yes.. I Know... There are a lot more theories...
I just picked those two as they are the main debate of this post.
There are for example:
We were created by Aliens
We are all nothing but a computer simulation
We are in a dream state and the dreams are the actual reality
And many more
All of which BTW.. are possible... the question is what is the probability of each of them being true

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According to Scripture, the probability of each of them (theories) being true is: false.
We did Not come from Aliens or from nothing.
We come from God's ' power and strength ' ( His abundant dynamic energy ) Psalms 104:30; Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12

Shad said:

It is an argument from incredulity in which complexity must mean an IDer. It is a typical argument from theists which is expected since the book the quote was from was written by a Christian not Flew himself. Flew only signed off on the book.

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In Antony Flew's obituary ( 04/08/2010 ) didn't it quote from Flew, Not as a sign off on a book.

Which book did Flew quote when he said, " There are evils in abundance which could Not be put down to a consequence of human sin."

OurCreed said:

The entire universe was created by God, and God decreed everything to happen at certain times because God knows exactly who will be born, who will do what, who will believe and who will disbelieve, and all that.
So literally every single thing that happens in the universe, it was all pre-determined by God before it all existed. This is the trait for God when He is considered the all-knowing. He knows the beginning and the end of the universe and everything in between. The entire universe is nothing but a mere speck compared to Him and His infinite reign. The time period the universe came into existence was also nothing but a mere speck of a micro-millisecond, and infinitely less than that. You can't even imagine.
Everything was decreed by God to happen beforehand, because He knew everything that will happen. He knew exactly who will pray to Him and what they will pray to Him, and He decides then and there regarding their prayer. Time simply does not exist for God. He does what He pleases, and we see these things happen when they are decreed.
This is why it is very important to understand these concepts of God, because any concept can easily be flawed and would go against the nature of the true concept of God.

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I think we can agree that God decreed there would be angelic life, then there would be physical life, but as to what each of us would do is Not found in Scripture.
Satan was created as good, but then Satan was drawn out by his own wrong desires - James 1:13-15
God does give us the happy ending for mankind at Revelation 22:2 that there will be healing for Earth's nations, but as to who will be part of that is an unknown number.
Jesus' ransoms covers ' many ' and Not all - Matthew 20:28
Not all because some use their free-will choices to be wicked instead of repenting. If predetermined then there would be No need to ask us to repent - 2 Peter 3:9
It was Not predetermined that those of Hebrews 6:4-6 should fall away, but by their own choice - Matthew 12:32.
So, just as the sands of the sea can Not be counted or numbered - Revelation 20:8 B; Jeremiah 33:22 - who comes through the coming great tribulation is unknown - Revelation 7:14
There would be No need for Jesus to separate people - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - if the people were already separated in God's eyes - Matthew 25:40

URAVIP2ME said:

You are Not alone because many think God is omnipresent, but according to Scripture God has a specific location - 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:43; 1 Kings 8:49 - Not omnipresent.
From that heavenly location or home God sends forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30
Could it be said as part of a ' universal spirit ' there are other spirits such as ' school spirit ' or even a high-spirited horse.
A pep rally is designed to create ' school spirit ' but that does Not make it a celestial spirit from God.

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Ok...we shall have to agree to disagree....it is impossible for me to imagine there not being a divine holarchy....and that there is anything at all in existence that does not have their being in the infiniteness of God.....but you are welcome to your belief...

URAVIP2ME said:

According to Scripture, the probability of each of them (theories) being true is: false.
We did Not come from Aliens or from nothing.
We come from God's ' power and strength ' ( His abundant dynamic energy ) Psalms 104:30; Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12

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Yes.. From a Theist point of view it is true... but a relative true...
I differ things that i believe to be true and things that are actually true...

And again, Truth.. is always debate-able...

Some spiritual streams say that a table is not really a table.. it is just your self grasping the concept of a table as such...
Which makes sense in a way.. because a table can also be a chair...
and a chair can be a table...

But that is not the question at hand...
The question is whether or not GOD exists is a question that will never be proven nor disproved...

Even if an entity will now descend from the skies with angelic wings saying I am you GOD almighty!
Some will say its GOD, some will say its the devil... some will say its an alien ETC...

But the chances of GOD being really is very very very very low.
That is the entire point.,,

And false is not a probability its a statement....

Will you stake your life with that statement?
The probability of aliens existing is several times higher than the probability of GOD existing.

Crypto2015 said:

I am amazed at how many high-calibre scientists are out to demonstrate that science disproves the existence of God. This amazes me because in general all science students learn at least a little bit of philosophy of science. One of the most basic principles in philosophy of science is that of falsifiability. A statement is falsifiable if there is an observation (either experimental or logical) that can demonstrate that the statement is false. For example, the statement “all cats are black” can easily be disproven by finding a cat that is not black. Similarly, the statement “parallel straight lines meet at some point” is false by definition. However, statements such as “this cat ought to be black” are unfalsifiable because it is impossible to demonstrate what something ought to be. Another example of an unfalsifiable statement is “if I had been born in Nigeria, I would be two meters tall”. These statements are unscientific because they are unfalsifiable. Science cannot tell us anything about them. It can neither prove them nor disprove them. However, an unfalsifiable statement may be true. For example, “mothers ought to love their children” is unfalsifiable and unscientific, but may be true nonetheless. The existence of God is unfalsifiable. Therefore, science cannot tell us anything about it. Claiming that this is not so is demonstrating a profound ignorance of what science is and is not. Please share your thoughts on the matter.

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By your logic scientists cannot disprove the existence of the Tooth Fairy either....but I'm pretty sure she doesn't exist.

Segev Moran said:

The probability of aliens existing is several times higher than the probability of GOD existing.

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Like a billion times higher.

Noitall said:

By your logic scientists cannot disprove the existence of the Tooth Fairy either....but I'm pretty sure she doesn't exist.

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Than whered all my teef go??

Demonslayer said:

Than whered all my teef go??

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Now that's a subject worth discussing.....

Demonslayer said:

Than whered all my teef go??

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Most children end up swallowing them. From there it's a total mystery.....

Crypto2015 said:

The existence of God is unfalsifiable. Therefore, science cannot tell us anything about it. Claiming that this is not so is demonstrating a profound ignorance of what science is and is not. Please share your thoughts on the matter.

Click to expand...

I disagree that the existence of God is unfalsifiable. To me, this may have nothing to do with science, unless science is understood as philosophy foremost and framework of methodological naturalism (assumption of material existence) as a distant second consideration. For practical science (application and research) the methodological concerns are arguably the foremost consideration. But not like science has worked out the fundamentals of its own philosophy and for most part, it consistently comes across (to me) as not caring if it (ever) does. The fundamental assumption (blind faith) in existence of a material universe is taken for granted.

Which leads to the argument of whether or not God is falsifiable. Two philosophical questions arise (perhaps asking the same thing, but arguably not):
1. Is existence of a physical universe falsifiable?
2. Is existence (itself) falsifiable?

I believe the first inquiry is addressed (and falsified) with the observation, experience and knowledge of night dreams. Night dreams present a perspective of consciousness interacting with what it is self convinced is an entire world (or universe) of physical existence. Our collective understandings tell us the existence is not real, not really existing even for the individual (dreamer). Knowledge of its falsifiability doesn't mean dreamers will not still dream, nor that conscious awareness of a dream being unreal is enough for all dreamers to not fully believe, participate in a dream world as if it is entirely real, and entirely existing independent from the dreamer's perspective, while in the dream world. I would also say night dreams are not the only example of observation / reason being applied to awareness to show that material existence is plausibly falsifiable. Just a prime one that allows me to not have to present a wall of text to expound on this point.

The second question is not one I have a sound bite answer to that I think is readily acceptable by all. If I did though, that would be pretty cool. LOL. But I do think it is fair, even while I recognize it is disputable, to say God is existence (itself) and thus is, for me, asking is God falsifiable? I say yes, because of how the first inquiry is set up to appear as if it is not inherently falsifiable. IOW, the existence of a physical universe as "all there is to existence itself" is what leads to a null hypothesis for anything else existing that is somehow argued to not be intrinsic, or natural part, of the physical existence. Getting as basic as I can, the second inquiry does come down to observation and who is the observer in actual reality. If that is determined to be physical being in physical world where God/supernatural is nowhere to be found, then God is not falsifiable. But because a physical universe is falsifiable, then existence itself is (plausibly) falsifiable. If the observer is determining that God is found everywhere, as existence itself (including as observation and as observer), then it provides endless/continuous means for testing the reality of existence (itself). But any observation of God as not existence itself would provide an observation that God is not existing. I wish to say that existence is not existing, but I realize how convoluted that appears. Though not so convoluted when considering that while a dreamer of a night dream is engaged in that experience, for them, wakeful existence is no longer existing. That existence ceases to exist for the dreamer.

Until they wake up.

URAVIP2ME said:

According to Scripture, the probability of each of them (theories) being true is: false.
We did Not come from Aliens or from nothing.
We come from God's ' power and strength ' ( His abundant dynamic energy ) Psalms 104:30; Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12

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Why would you believe people that wrote about something thousands of years ago when there was little knowledge (they thought the world was flat and the earth was the centre of the universe) over thousands of modern day scientists with all the scientific discoveries, development & equipment we now have? Isaiah & Jeremiah didn't have a clue about the age of the earth or that dinosaurs even existed. I don't blame them for writing about something to the extent that they had limited knowledge but I wonder about people that stick their heads in the bible while totally ignoring all the other knowledge that has been discovered in a couple of thousand years.

Noitall said:

Why would you believe people that wrote about something thousands of years ago when there was little knowledge (they thought the world was flat and the earth was the centre of the universe) over thousands of modern day scientists with all the scientific discoveries, development & equipment we now have? Isaiah & Jeremiah didn't have a clue about the age of the earth or that dinosaurs even existed. I don't blame them for writing about something to the extent that they had limited knowledge but I wonder about people that stick their heads in the bible while totally ignoring all the other knowledge that has been discovered in a couple of thousand years.

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Can't Genesis 1:24-25 cover dinosaurs ?______ Just because they are Not named does Not mean they did Not exist.
Didn't dinosaurs only reproduce dinosaurs according to their kind ?

Why do you think Isaiah and Jeremiah needed to know the age of the Earth/Universe ?
There is Nothing out of harmony with CMBR and Scripture is there ?
Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation dating has proven their was a beginning. Genesis 1:1 says there was a beginning.
According to Isaiah 40:26 God supplied the needed ' power and strength ' ( His energy ) to start the material creation of the Universe.

Which Bible verses do you have in mind that the world was flat and the center of the universe ?
According to Job 26:7 the Earth hangs upon nothing.
According to Job 22:14 the circuit of the heavens is Not flat. A circle does Not have to be flat. The Hebrew word chug/hhug does Not mean flat - Isaiah 40:22 as translated in KJV English.
Job 38:31-33 does Not sound as it the Earth is the center of the universe. Laws do govern the heavens - Job 9:8-10

ben d said:

What do you understand the concept God to represent that you do not believe in? I mean it does not make any sense to say you disbelieve in a concept of which you do not know what the concept is meant to represent...

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I believe in gods. I don't worry about any of the concepts. I also don't worry about any of the concepts of unicorns.
If I do not believe gods exist, it does not matter what gods people conceptualize.

Segev Moran said:

And again, Truth.. is always debate-able...
But that is not the question at hand...
The question is whether or not GOD exists is a question that will never be proven nor disproved...
Even if an entity will now descend from the skies with angelic wings saying I am you GOD almighty!
Some will say its GOD, some will say its the devil... some will say its an alien ETC...
But the chances of GOD being really is very very very very low.
That is the entire point.,,
And false is not a probability its a statement....
Will you stake your life with that statement?
The probability of aliens existing is several times higher than the probability of GOD existing.

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Don't hold your breath because Alien life will Not come to Earth.
If the ' sin issue ' which started in Eden would have been settled elsewhere in the Universe there would be No need to settle it here in Earth.
Until the ' sin issue ' is settled here on Earth there will be No intelligent physical life elsewhere.

Jesus based his beliefs by his logical reasoning of the old Hebrew Scriptures thus concluding that Scripture is ' religious truth ' - John 17:17
Yes, people debate that, but debating alone does Not mean what Jesus taught is Not religious truth.
Teachings so true, that if we could set our watches by Jesus' teachings it would be accurate.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33; 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
We are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, when ' they ' (powers that be ) will be saying, " Peace and Security " as the precursor of the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14
We are at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8 - because the good news message of God's kingdom is now being proclaimed on an international scale.