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Hark, the Herald Angels...Sing?

SunMessenger

SunMessenger

Catholic
FerventGodSeeker said:
In the Bible, angels never sing. They say things, proclaim things, I think they even shout things....but they never are seen singing in Scripture. If you'd like to prove me wrong, I invite Scripture citations.
In the meantime, does anyone know where the idea that angels sing came from? We see the idea all the time, especially in Christian music, but I don't know where it originated.

FerventGodSeeker
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For some reason I believe sing and praise in this context mean the same thing. The words may be interchangable ??? What do you think? Hark The Herald Angels Sing could mean Hark The Herald Angels Praise or even proclaim ? Interesting question ... Be Well and God Bless...
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
One has to wonder at the impetus behind the OP.

Obviously, the scriptures have never intimated that Angels DON'T sing. So if anything, this is merely a matter of "opinion" and should never be in contention as a doctrinal issue.

I have seen such logic used to condemn the use of musical instruments in a church or even having a kitchen or a nursery. Were they to FULLY extend the folly of their logic, there should be no AC, bathrooms or even electricity in those buildings either.
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
NetDoc said:
One has to wonder at the impetus behind the OP.
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Morbid curiosity? lol. I don't know, I just thought it would be interesting to get people's opinions, don't shoot me, sheesh.

Obviously, the scriptures have never intimated that Angels DON'T sing. So if anything, this is merely a matter of "opinion" and should never be in contention as a doctrinal issue.
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I have never liked that kind of reasoning. The Bible doesn't say LOTS of things, that doesn't mean we should assume them. Just because the Bible doesn't say that there aren't giant blue ants on Pluto doesn't mean should assume there are. I think it's important to go by precisely what Scripture and Holy Tradition say, and not to frivolously assume things beyond that. I already mentioned that this particuar issue doesn't make a huge difference in the long run, but I do find it interesting...call me weird, I like to discover and discuss interesting things.
I have seen such logic used to condemn the use of musical instruments in a church or even having a kitchen or a nursery. Were they to FULLY extend the folly of their logic, there should be no AC, bathrooms or even electricity in those buildings either
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This is not the same as such arguments at all. Those arguments are based on the fact that those things are not mentioned much or at all in Scripture, and therefore should not be allowed. In regards to angels, however, Scripture tells us LOTS about them. It just doesn't happen to mention that they sing, and therefore I don't think we should assume that they do.

FerventGodSeeker
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FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
SunMessenger said:
For some reason I believe sing and praise in this context mean the same thing. The words may be interchangable ??? What do you think? Hark The Herald Angels Sing could mean Hark The Herald Angels Praise or even proclaim ? Interesting question ... Be Well and God Bless...
Click to expand...
I don't think praise and sing are exactly the same thing. I think singing CAN be praise, but I do not think that praise is always singing. For example,
"Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you...Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse...What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you." 1 Cor. 11:2,17, 22
I seriously doubt that Paul is talking about singing here. ;)

FerventGodSeeker
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
lunamoth said:
What do I know...that's what it says in my NIV. :angel2:

(BTW, I like and use my NIV study Bible :D )

luna
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And I don't think any less of you for it. I do, however, think that there are better English translations out there. ANY English translation should always be checked against the original Greek or Hebrew to verify the original content and meaning.

FerventGodSeeker
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
FerventGodSeeker said:
This is not the same as such arguments at all. Those arguments are based on the fact that those things are not mentioned much or at all in Scripture, and therefore should not be allowed.
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So we shouldn't use cars or microphones or printed Bibles or wear suits or eat corn on the cob or THE STINKING INTERNET. NONE of these are mentioned as "legitimate" in the Bible and so using your line of thought you are SINNING by even posting here. You heretic! :D
FerventGodSeeker said:
In regards to angels, however, Scripture tells us LOTS about them. It just doesn't happen to mention that they sing, and therefore I don't think we should assume that they do.
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Or, heaven forbid, should we assume that they DON'T sing. Either way you are departing from scripture and merely guessing.

But one has to wonder... is this the "New Legalism" where we are held to Laws by extrapolation? Say goodbye to grace and the freedom to praise God with all of our hearts: There's a new Law in town!!!
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
FerventGodSeeker said:
And I don't think any less of you for it. I do, however, think that there are better English translations out there. ANY English translation should always be checked against the original Greek or Hebrew to verify the original content and meaning.
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Far more important than the translation you prefer, is your determination to DO WHAT IT SAYS.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.
26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. The Wretched NIV

After all, it's the SPIRIT that changes our hearts: not our smug study of the scriptures.
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
NetDoc said:
Far more important than the translation you prefer, is your determination to DO WHAT IT SAYS.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.
26 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. The Wretched NIV
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For anyone who wants the REAL story from the NKJV and not from the Non-Inspired Version (NIV):D here it is:
"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." James 1:22-27

Ok, so they're pretty similar in that passage, although you can see how much more colloquial the NIV is. OK, enough about that...

After all, it's the SPIRIT that changes our hearts: not our smug study of the scriptures
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Amen.


FerventGodSeeker
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Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
IF by colloquial, you mean that it uses MODERN grammer and syntax, then I would have to agree. :D However, I have met more than my share of people who really think that the KJV and the NKJV are the only inspired versions and I find that INCREDIBLY legalistic!

FerventGodSeeker said:
For anyone who wants the REAL story from the NKJV and not from the Non-Inspired Version (NIV):D here it is:
Click to expand...

BTW, you didn't miss my post that was the last one on page 3, didya???
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FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
NetDoc said:
IF by colloquial, you mean that it uses MODERN grammer and syntax, then I would have to agree. :D However, I have met more than my share of people who really think that the KJV and the NKJV are the only inspired versions and I find that INCREDIBLY legalistic!
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I'm not a King James only-ist. The Bible wasn't originally written in English, why would we put all our faith into a translation? BTW, I was kidding...and by colloquial I meant practically slang.:D :angel2:

FGS
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FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
NetDoc said:
So we shouldn't use cars or microphones or printed Bibles or wear suits or eat corn on the cob or THE STINKING INTERNET. NONE of these are mentioned as "legitimate" in the Bible and so using your line of thought you are SINNING by even posting here. You heretic! :D
Click to expand...
I was explaining the reasoning behind those teachings, I didn't say I AGREED with them, obviously.

Or, heaven forbid, should we assume that they DON'T sing. Either way you are departing from scripture and merely guessing.
Click to expand...
If neither Scripture nor Holy Tradition indicates that angels sing, I think it's much safer to assume that they don't than that they do.
But one has to wonder... is this the "New Legalism" where we are held to Laws by extrapolation?
Click to expand...
I don't even know what you're talking about, sorry
Say goodbye to grace and the freedom to praise God with all of our hearts: There's a new Law in town!!!
Click to expand...
If angels don't sing, will that give you a whole new outlook on grace and your freedom to praise God? I would hope not, it certainly doesn't for me.

FerventGodSeeker
Click to expand...
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
FerventGodSeeker said:
If neither Scripture nor Holy Tradition indicates that angels sing, I think it's much safer to assume that they don't than that they do.
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Safer for what? Surely you don't put any more weight on this subject than how many of these tone deaf angels can dance on the head of a pin, do you? (That would be Angels WITHOUT harps here... :D )
 
joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
FerventGodSeeker said:
In the Bible, angels never sing. They say things, proclaim things, I think they even shout things....but they never are seen singing in Scripture. If you'd like to prove me wrong, I invite Scripture citations.
In the meantime, does anyone know where the idea that angels sing came from? We see the idea all the time, especially in Christian music, but I don't know where it originated.

FerventGodSeeker
Click to expand...

Hmm, dunno. But, I like the idea of the angels singing in Luke 2, although it says they were 'saying'... But, I read that Lucifer when He was the top angel in Heaven was over the angelic choir, but I do not recall where or if it is scriptural, something fun to study I suppose. I suppose I believe that God created music and that it has been going on since before mankind, the angelic hosts praising God with utterances and beautiful music that we cannot even imagine. I know we are told to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs to God and each other and to ourselves each day, so it is not a stretch for me to believe that God likes music or that the angels do sing. But that is just me :)
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
NetDoc said:
Safer for what? Surely you don't put any more weight on this subject than how many of these tone deaf angels can dance on the head of a pin, do you? (That would be Angels WITHOUT harps here... :D )
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Safer for the sake of argument? It's a figure of speech, how do I know what it means? LOL. :D As I said, I don't really think this issue is something to start a new denomination over (although some Protestant probably would:rolleyes: ). I just find it interesting because it is something that I think Christians simply assume because see we it or hear it so often, yet it is in neither Scripture nor Tradition, that I have seen.

FerventGodSeeker
 
FerventGodSeeker

FerventGodSeeker

Believer
joeboonda said:
Hmm, dunno. But, I like the idea of the angels singing in Luke 2, although it says they were 'saying'... But, I read that Lucifer when He was the top angel in Heaven was over the angelic choir, but I do not recall where or if it is scriptural, something fun to study I suppose. I suppose I believe that God created music and that it has been going on since before mankind, the angelic hosts praising God with utterances and beautiful music that we cannot even imagine. I know we are told to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs to God and each other and to ourselves each day, so it is not a stretch for me to believe that God likes music or that the angels do sing. But that is just me :)
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Thanks for your thoughts. As for Lucifer being head over an angelic choir, I have not seen this Scripture. If you can find it, let me know; I'll do a bit of research myself.

FerventGodSeeker
 
joeboonda

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
HI, haven't got to look up much on the 'doctrines of Satan', and where they all fit together in Scripture, however I did find one passage in Ezekiel, which although speaks of the king of Tyrus, is thought to speak of Satan by some scholars. I will underline the 'musical' references...I italicized some parts that seem to be a portrayal of Lucifer. Like I said, I have not studied it, although I am sure there are some very scholarly in-depth books on the scriptural aspects of this Christian doctrine....

28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
(King James Bible, Ezekiel)
 
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