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What Jehovah's Witnesses got right.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Rom 1:7 (ESVST) 7 To all those in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:2 (ESVST) 2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

2Co 1:1 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God that is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia:

Gal 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle — not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead — 2 and all the brothers who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:

Eph 1:1 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Phi 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:1-2 (ESVST) 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

1Th 1:1 (ESVST) 1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:
1Th 1:4 (ESVST) 4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,


So you can see from these verses that the "Holy Ones" were among those to whom Paul wrote...still living in their imperfect flesh.

Here are a few more.....
Acts 9:13; 26:10; Rom 1:7; 12:13; 2Cor 1:1; 13:13.

Even in pre-Christian times, humans on earth who have been set apart for the service of God have also been called “holy ones.” (Psalm 34:9)
Israel, who were brought into covenant relationship with God, became his special property and was, as a nation, holy to him.

Paul wrote concerning those with the heavenly calling...."Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest cases? 3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels—not to mention ordinary matters?" (1 Cor 6:2, 3)

What is "the world" that is judged by the "saints"?

John says that 144,000 are "bought from among mankind as firstfruits"...what does he mean? (Rev 14:1-5) Why does John see two groups....one numbering 144,000 with Jesus and another owing their salvation to God and the Lamb, who could not be counted but who are said to "come out of the great tribulation"? (Rev 7:2-4, 9, 10, 13, 14)

As with any governmental arrangement, there are the rulers and the ones over whom they rule. That is what a kingdom is...A "king" and a "dom"ain of subjects.
Surely that is not rocket science.

So, please explain to me, how can there be only 144,000 brothers of Jesus? Was Paul writing to only 2 or maybe 3 saints and brothers in each of his letters?

Not all who are "called" remain faithful. (2 Pet 2:10-22) And if it is a "calling"...what of those NOT called? (Heb 3:1) Why single out "Holy Ones" in his letters if all the ones he wrote to were holy ones? Think about it.

I have known quite a few anointed brothers in my years as a Witness, and their calling is not some whimsical wishful thinking.....it is a powerful desire to leave this earth and go to heaven to be with their Lord. They know that they will leave everything, and everyone behind to rule with Christ in heaven, but this does not phase them.
In the congregation, they are just one of the brothers and sisters. The only way to tell if they are anointed is to see them take the emblems on Memorial night. They never mention it. Even the brothers on the GB attend meetings like everyone else. There is no special treatment for anointed ones and there is no envy on the part of their spiritual brothers over whom they will rule. They are chosen by God personally, so they will be the very best rulers we could ever hope for.

And if you put 144,000 all in one place, how many do you think you would fit in a football stadium? Today, there are less anointed ones on earth than there were in the first century. Because they are a finite number, there has to come a time when the ranks are filled.
And because of the foretold apostasy, there was a lull in the numbers (of those who would have qualified spiritually for the job) when the church left off serving the interests of the Master to serve themselves for centuries. Only in the "time of the end" did God cleanse for himself a people from whom he would again draw his anointed ones and finish what he started in the first century. Their cleansing and refinement have continued to this day. You can choose to be among them, or you can choose to reject them. That is why we all have free will, and that is why God "draws" only those he selects as potential citizens of his kingdom, based on their response to the kingdom message. (Matt 24:14; John 6:44)
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Matt 27:24-26
The ones who put Jesus to death were certain that they were right too.....:rolleyes:
Matthew 27:24-26
The one called Jesus was born, lived and died so that his blood should come upon us and our children.

Now I am certain you have the governing body disease which is that whenever they think something is true and right it becomes true and right.
2 Thessalonians 2:11

I had said that you seem to think you are right about everything and that I am wrong about everything. I don't know if that is possible but let's go with that.

If you are right about anything, nothing will happen to me but what would happen to me anyway. But if I am right about anything, even just one thing, I can chop you down.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Paul wrote concerning those with the heavenly calling...."Or don’t you know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest cases? 3 Don’t you know that we will judge angels—not to mention ordinary matters?" (1 Cor 6:2, 3)

If your logic is correct, you're saying that when Judgment day comes, and we stand before the throne, we will not be standing in front of a throne with One Judge, but 144,002 judges, is that correct?
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Matt 27:24-26

John 11:50-52…50nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.…

Acts 2: 22 Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, ...... delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God

@Deeje why not tell us how you know that the crowd was not prophesying as in John 11:50-51?

Is it because the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have always followed Babylon the Great about most Biblical hermeneutics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_hermeneutics
 

blue taylor

Active Member
That transliteration also means to murder, as in a crime. When it is used in context of the OT, it is murder.

Edit: for those that have not studied Hebrew, you can follow this wiki entry-

Retzach ( רצח ) is a Hebrew term, which describes a certain death-bringing activity, and whose exact translation is disputed. One of the more well known items in the Ethical Decalogue is the rule thou shalt not [retzach][1]; most commonly this rule is translated thou shalt not kill, but a number of individuals, particularly in Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity, regard thou shalt not murder as a more accurate rendering.

The Bible never uses the word retzach in conjunction with war, and controversially portrays Yahweh as frequently advocating total war.
To each their own.
 

averageJOE

zombie
Capital punishment is relegated to the duly constituted authorities...it has nothing to do with JW's what the governments of their nations do....we are no part of it. We do not vote or hold political office and we do not meddle in the affairs of this world. Why would we? (1 John 5:19)
I've heard this countless times by JW's.

Here is a challenge, with that in mind, next time you are at your meeting raise your hand and when they give you the microphone instead of answering a question ask "If we are not to meddle in the affairs of this world, why was the Watchtower a member of the United Nations as a NGO from 1992 to 2001?" (and don't fall for the "library" excuse either)
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I've heard this countless times by JW's.

Here is a challenge, with that in mind, next time you are at your meeting raise your hand and when they give you the microphone instead of answering a question ask "If we are not to meddle in the affairs of this world, why was the Watchtower a member of the United Nations as a NGO from 1992 to 2001?" (and don't fall for the "library" excuse either)
LOL as I imagine @Deeje doing it!

That is something else I did not know while I was.................................................................. not an apostate.
I might have said, "while I was Jehovah's Witnesses" but I think according to our JW friends on forum, I never was one. I was never like them.
In fact, I have often wondered if they really are JWs because they seem to dissuade people much more than they engage them for their cause imo.
 
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blue taylor

Active Member
Yeah, it sucks when reality hits you in the face. :glomp2:
When differences exist in translations, without certainty and without consensus, each can make up their own mind, and believe as they do. Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself, and love your enemy. Pray for those who spitefully use you". This in itself would prevent a follower of Jesus from killing another. Regardless of the cause. That is if you do the Jesus thing. Jesus replaced the ten commandments with two. Hillel the elder said the golden rule was the whole law, and the Torah is the explanation.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Jesus replaced the ten commandments with two.

Apparently you missed Matthew chapter 19:

16 And someone came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?”
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

He named off 6 out of the 10 that are most often quoted from the OT. Then there is this little tidbit from Matthew chapter 5:

17 Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law refers to the Pentateuch, or the five books of Moses (Genesis-Deuteronomy).
The Prophets refers to both the major and minor prophets, which includes Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

What you refer to is found in Matthew 22:36-40 where he is asked what is the GREATEST of the commandments, and Jesus answered him with (paraphrased) "love God" followed by "love your neighbor [people]" and even goes on to say that these two commandments rely on the whole Law and Prophets (see OT reference above).

In other words, there is more to it than what you are making out. Might I suggest going to seminary or taking theology courses, especially apologetics. That will help you gain in understanding.
 

blue taylor

Active Member
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I've heard this countless times by JW's.

Here is a challenge, with that in mind, next time you are at your meeting raise your hand and when they give you the microphone instead of answering a question ask "If we are not to meddle in the affairs of this world, why was the Watchtower a member of the United Nations as a NGO from 1992 to 2001?" (and don't fall for the "library" excuse either)

Only an apostate could suggest such a ridiculous thing...as if any JW would interrupt a meeting to proclaim a personal protest :rolleyes:....any questions we have are asked through the channel provided...the body of elders. These are assigned as our instructors. (Heb 13:17) No JW would think so much of their own opinion that they would cause division in the congregation and publicly embarrass themselves in the process.
What a moronic suggestion.

Do you even know what an NGO is?

From Wiki....

"A non-governmental organization (NGO) is an organization that is neither a part of a government nor a conventional for-profit business.

Usually set up by ordinary citizens, NGOs may be funded by governments, foundations, schools, businesses, or private people. Some avoid formal funding altogether and are run primarily by volunteers. NGOs are highly diverse groups of organizations engaged in a wide range of activities, and take different forms in different parts of the world. Some may have charitable status, while others may be registered for tax exemption based on recognition of social purposes. Others may be fronts for political, religious, or other interests.

The number of NGOs in the United States is estimated at 1.5 million.[1] Russia has 277,000 NGOs.[2] India is estimated to have had around 2 million NGOs in 2009, just over one NGO per 600 Indians, and many times the number of primary schools and primary health centres in India.[3][4]

NGOs are difficult to define, and the term 'NGO' is not always used consistently. In some countries the term NGO is applied to an organization that in another country would be called an NPO (nonprofit organization), and vice-versa. There are many different classifications of NGO in use. The most common focus is on "orientation" and "level of operation". An NGO's orientation refers to the type of activities it takes on. These activities might include human rights, environmental, improving health, or development work. An NGO's level of operation indicates the scale at which an organization works, such as local, regional, national, or international.[5]

The term "non-governmental organization" was first coined in 1945, when the United Nations (UN) was created.[6] The UN, itself an inter-governmental organization, made it possible for certain approved specialized international non-state agencies — i.e., non-governmental organizations — to be awarded observer status at its assemblies and some of its meetings. Later the term became used more widely. Today, according to the UN, any kind of private organization that is independent from government control can be termed an "NGO", provided it is not-for-profit, nonprevention, and not simply an opposition political party.

One characteristic these diverse organizations share is that their non-profit status means they are not hindered by short-term financial objectives. Accordingly, they are able to devote themselves to issues which occur across longer time horizons, such as climate change, malaria prevention, or a global ban on landmines. Public surveys reveal that NGOs often enjoy a high degree of public trust, which can make them a useful – but not always sufficient – proxy for the concerns of society and stakeholders.[7]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization

Because JW's pride themselves on gleaning accurate information, and where possible from its source, we had access to the UN assemblies and other meetings for research purposes as an NON Government Organization.
It never made us part of the UN. But if you cared enough to know the truth instead of believing the rubbish other apostates publish, you would know this.

Talk about heard it all before....
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Only an apostate could suggest such a ridiculous thing...as if any JW would interrupt a meeting to proclaim a personal protest :rolleyes:....any questions we have are asked through the channel provided...the body of elders. These are assigned as our instructors. (Heb 13:17) No JW would think so much of their own opinion that they would cause division in the congregation and publicly embarrass themselves in the process.
What a moronic suggestion.

Do you even know what an NGO is?

From Wiki....

"A non-governmental organization (NGO) is an organization that is neither a part of a government nor a conventional for-profit business.

Usually set up by ordinary citizens, NGOs may be funded by governments, foundations, schools, businesses, or private people. Some avoid formal funding altogether and are run primarily by volunteers. NGOs are highly diverse groups of organizations engaged in a wide range of activities, and take different forms in different parts of the world. Some may have charitable status, while others may be registered for tax exemption based on recognition of social purposes. Others may be fronts for political, religious, or other interests.

The number of NGOs in the United States is estimated at 1.5 million.[1] Russia has 277,000 NGOs.[2] India is estimated to have had around 2 million NGOs in 2009, just over one NGO per 600 Indians, and many times the number of primary schools and primary health centres in India.[3][4]

NGOs are difficult to define, and the term 'NGO' is not always used consistently. In some countries the term NGO is applied to an organization that in another country would be called an NPO (nonprofit organization), and vice-versa. There are many different classifications of NGO in use. The most common focus is on "orientation" and "level of operation". An NGO's orientation refers to the type of activities it takes on. These activities might include human rights, environmental, improving health, or development work. An NGO's level of operation indicates the scale at which an organization works, such as local, regional, national, or international.[5]

The term "non-governmental organization" was first coined in 1945, when the United Nations (UN) was created.[6] The UN, itself an inter-governmental organization, made it possible for certain approved specialized international non-state agencies — i.e., non-governmental organizations — to be awarded observer status at its assemblies and some of its meetings. Later the term became used more widely. Today, according to the UN, any kind of private organization that is independent from government control can be termed an "NGO", provided it is not-for-profit, nonprevention, and not simply an opposition political party.

One characteristic these diverse organizations share is that their non-profit status means they are not hindered by short-term financial objectives. Accordingly, they are able to devote themselves to issues which occur across longer time horizons, such as climate change, malaria prevention, or a global ban on landmines. Public surveys reveal that NGOs often enjoy a high degree of public trust, which can make them a useful – but not always sufficient – proxy for the concerns of society and stakeholders.[7]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization

Because JW's pride themselves on gleaning accurate information, and where possible from its source, we had access to the UN assemblies and other meetings for research purposes as an NON Government Organization.
It never made us part of the UN. But if you cared enough to know the truth instead of believing the rubbish other apostates publish, you would know this.

Talk about heard it all before....
If you would associate with me, a BAD association, are you making yourself a part of me? Of course not! Either bad association spoil useful habits or they don't. The Bible, according to JWs, keeps daughters away from their mothers and grandfathers away from their grandchildren so that their "good habits" are not spoiled, but the governing body may rub shoulders with anyone. Can you explain the disparity?
You say the governing body needed to be a member in good standing with the UN for books. I just wonder why they don't hear from Jesus for accurate knowledge. Do you know?
Also family members need love but the governing body say. "NO!" it is bad association.

I can see you putting books ahead of love, but can YOU? I know that to be faithful to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is to make one's self deaf and blind. It is disgusting! Luke 16:15
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Deeje What I mean is the higher ups did not have their habits spoiled when they associated with the UN but the sycophants get spoiled each time they show love to an errant one. That is what is served at The Table of Jehovah. Does Jesus share at your table with you?
 

kerndog

Member
Only an apostate could suggest such a ridiculous thing...as if any JW would interrupt a meeting to proclaim a personal protest :rolleyes:....any questions we have are asked through the channel provided...the body of elders. These are assigned as our instructors. (Heb 13:17) No JW would think so much of their own opinion that they would cause division in the congregation and publicly embarrass themselves in the process.
What a moronic suggestion.

Do you even know what an NGO is?

From Wiki....

"A non-governmental organization (NGO) is an organization that is neither a part of a government nor a conventional for-profit business.

Usually set up by ordinary citizens, NGOs may be funded by governments, foundations, schools, businesses, or private people. Some avoid formal funding altogether and are run primarily by volunteers. NGOs are highly diverse groups of organizations engaged in a wide range of activities, and take different forms in different parts of the world. Some may have charitable status, while others may be registered for tax exemption based on recognition of social purposes. Others may be fronts for political, religious, or other interests.

The number of NGOs in the United States is estimated at 1.5 million.[1] Russia has 277,000 NGOs.[2] India is estimated to have had around 2 million NGOs in 2009, just over one NGO per 600 Indians, and many times the number of primary schools and primary health centres in India.[3][4]

NGOs are difficult to define, and the term 'NGO' is not always used consistently. In some countries the term NGO is applied to an organization that in another country would be called an NPO (nonprofit organization), and vice-versa. There are many different classifications of NGO in use. The most common focus is on "orientation" and "level of operation". An NGO's orientation refers to the type of activities it takes on. These activities might include human rights, environmental, improving health, or development work. An NGO's level of operation indicates the scale at which an organization works, such as local, regional, national, or international.[5]

The term "non-governmental organization" was first coined in 1945, when the United Nations (UN) was created.[6] The UN, itself an inter-governmental organization, made it possible for certain approved specialized international non-state agencies — i.e., non-governmental organizations — to be awarded observer status at its assemblies and some of its meetings. Later the term became used more widely. Today, according to the UN, any kind of private organization that is independent from government control can be termed an "NGO", provided it is not-for-profit, nonprevention, and not simply an opposition political party.

One characteristic these diverse organizations share is that their non-profit status means they are not hindered by short-term financial objectives. Accordingly, they are able to devote themselves to issues which occur across longer time horizons, such as climate change, malaria prevention, or a global ban on landmines. Public surveys reveal that NGOs often enjoy a high degree of public trust, which can make them a useful – but not always sufficient – proxy for the concerns of society and stakeholders.[7]"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization

Because JW's pride themselves on gleaning accurate information, and where possible from its source, we had access to the UN assemblies and other meetings for research purposes as an NON Government Organization.
It never made us part of the UN. But if you cared enough to know the truth instead of believing the rubbish other apostates publish, you would know this.

Talk about heard it all before....
You hit the nail on the head Deeje, Apostates are the worst of the worst, THEY ARE NOT INTERSTED in truth, only LOOPHOLES ! They will try to wrap you and the unweary up in arguments that dont amount to a hill of beans. The Apostle paul warned us about these types of individuals .....2Tim 2:23....the NWT uses the term "Ignorant Debates"....the NRSV uses "Senseless Controversies"....the Greek "UBS 4th Edition, Nestle-Aland 27th Edition" has it as "Ignorant Speculations".....same warning in 1Tim. 1:3,4...4:7...Titus 3:9......in other words....they are not interested in giving you the REAL story, only a "ARTFULLY CONTRIVED STORY"...2Pet.1:16...Eph. 4:13,14....MATTHEW 24:48-50
 
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