• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The compassionate Pope

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
I was watching the news yesterday and saw that Pope Francis took some Syrian refugees back to the Vatican with him. I was touched by the compassion that he showed these people in need even though they were of a different faith. It got me thinking, "maybe there is hope for the world after all. Thoughts?

The Catholic Church could use its literally trillions+ of dollars in unliquidated assets to do a little more than take a couple of refugees back to the Vatican.

With each second that ticks on, the Catholic Church is progressively becoming the most vile, unconscionable organisation that has ever existed in the human world; that's saying a lot.

The whole damn thing needs to be torn down for the good of the world. That is not an exaggeration.
 

blue taylor

Active Member
Well, you specifically mentioned


It was a haven for all sorts of abusers, not just homosexuals and pedophiles. It was a haven for people hungry for political and social and even economic power. Many, perhaps even most were not abusers, were good people doing the best they could. YOU are the one who made it a "gay" issue by saying that the abuse was attributable to "homosexuals and pedophiles," and connecting the two as if the two categories are synonymous or even related: pedophilia is different than homosexuality. Personally, whereas I find relationships between adults regardless of gender okay, relationships of adults with children are not.

Not all of the abuse was sexual, in fact probably more of it was physical, emotional, and spiritual in nature...several childhood friends attended the Catholic schools where I grew up, and described what would now be considered abuse by both nuns and clergy...of course, back then, corporal punishment was allowed in public schools, as well, but what my friends described was more than just swats with a paddle and raps on the knuckles with a ruler.

Regardless, it is certainly true that the recent media coverage and court cases have focused on sexual abuse rather than the other forms.
Yes, yes, we all know the
I was watching the news yesterday and saw that Pope Francis took some Syrian refugees back to the Vatican with him. I was touched by the compassion that he showed these people in need even though they were of a different faith. It got me thinking, "maybe there is hope for the world after all. Thoughts?
This won't last long.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
@David1967

Please don't let some responses annoy you. For some reason some people choose negativity and seek destructive criticism instead of looking at the good side that keeps showing up clearly but decided to be ignored intentionally. I don't know why such negativity is what some people look for in things, that they also twist positive topics and bring those. People should be rational.

It is not the Pope's duty to provide services to the refugees, and demanding it from him is an excuse to start a bashing party against him and his beliefs. Doing something good one is not obliged to do may give them credit, but not doing it is their complete choice and no one has the right to criticize. That would just be envy.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
[SIZE=4 said:
beenherebeforeagain[/SIZE]] YOU are the one who made it a "gay" issue by saying that the abuse was attributable to "homosexuals and pedophiles," and connecting the two as if the two categories are synonymous or even related: pedophilia is different than homosexuality. Personally, whereas I find relationships between adults regardless of gender okay, relationships of adults with children are not.

What I said was that the priesthood became a haven for both homosexuals and pedophiles because of easy access to children and others of like disposition.....sexual sin in the Catholic church was any kind of sex, since priests took a vow of celibacy. This is not a Biblically imposed restriction but one forced on its priesthood by the church.
Nuns too were not to engage in sexual activity because they were purportedly seen as the "bride of Christ". They were supposed to be virgins....:confused: keeping themselves chaste for their Lord.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@David1967

Please don't let some responses annoy you. For some reason some people choose negativity and seek destructive criticism instead of looking at the good side that keeps showing up clearly but decided to be ignored intentionally. I don't know why such negativity is what some people look for in things, that they also twist positive topics and bring those. People should be rational.

It is not the Pope's duty to provide services to the refugees, and demanding it from him is an excuse to start a bashing party against him and his beliefs. Doing something good one is not obliged to do may give them credit, but not doing it is their complete choice and no one has the right to criticize. That would just be envy.

Thanks SG. :)
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The shame was in perpetuating the problem so that it went on for many decades (or even centuries) all over the world in Catholic institutions. If you don't see the connection to Francis, then the PR is working. :(

So because of the sins of some, are we to ignore the good that others do? What Pope Francis did is a wonderful gesture of compassion that is a good example for any to follow.
 

kerndog

Member
The shame was in perpetuating the problem so that it went on for many decades (or even centuries) all over the world in Catholic institutions. If you don't see the connection to Francis, then the PR is working. :(
Exactly, Remember the movie "WAG THE DOG" .....this is what you are seeing, a common tactic in government because IT WORKS !
 

Ralph Murphy

New Member
I was watching the news yesterday and saw that Pope Francis took some Syrian refugees back to the Vatican with him. I was touched by the compassion that he showed these people in need even though they were of a different faith. It got me thinking, "maybe there is hope for the world after all. Thoughts?

He probably needed some new additions to the cleaning staff. Syrians, Oompah Loompas, whats the difference?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
For those above who are on an anti-Catholic or anti-Pope tirade, please explain what your church, or other religious institution, has done, or at least what you have done to help the Syrian refugees? My experience is that typically those who speak the loudest tend to offer up the least.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
For those above who are on an anti-Catholic or anti-Pope tirade, please explain what your church, or other religious institution, has done, or at least what you have done to help the Syrian refugees? My experience is that typically those who speak the loudest tend to offer up the least.

Thank you for that Metis. :)
 

kerndog

Member
So because of the sins of some, are we to ignore the good that others do? What Pope Francis did is a wonderful gesture of compassion that is a good example for any to follow.
Matt. 7:21-23...Easy to talk the talk, much harder to walk the walk, 1Pet 2:21 ! ..Takes a lot more than a few token gestures of kindness compared to the centuries of Evil !
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Matt. 7:21-23...Easy to talk the talk, much harder to walk the walk, 1Pet 2:21 ! ..Takes a lot more than a few token gestures of kindness compared to the centuries of Evil !
But he is "walking the walk", so what are you personally doing? Also, how exactly do you know his actions are only "token"?

BTW, I ain't Catholic.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Matt. 7:21-23...Easy to talk the talk, much harder to walk the walk, 1Pet 2:21 ! ..Takes a lot more than a few token gestures of kindness compared to the centuries of Evil !

So let me try and understand what you are saying. Are you of the mindset that due to the fact that there has been abuse within the Catholic church that any good that they do should be ignored? If all denominations and religions for that matter were judged like that none would be found guiltless. There are good and bad people in every religion so why not use some common sense and condemn the bad when it happens, but recognize the good that also comes out of it.
 

kerndog

Member
So let me try and understand what you are saying. Are you of the mindset that due to the fact that there has been abuse within the Catholic church that any good that they do should be ignored? If all denominations and religions for that matter were judged like that none would be found guiltless. There are good and bad people in every religion so why not use some common sense and condemn the bad when it happens, but recognize the good that also comes out of it.
NO, there are wrong doers in every faith you are 100% correct on that, Your clergy is who the problem is with, the point of Jesus words are clear, you can not be preaching love of God and neighbor out of one side of your mouth, and be promoting and encouraging bad out the other, by their fruits you will know them, what kind of fruitage has christendoms religion produced, helping people in other countries, and then in a heartbeat be ready to go kill them !
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So because of the sins of some, are we to ignore the good that others do? What Pope Francis did is a wonderful gesture of compassion that is a good example for any to follow.

I would love to know what actual good is done by the church that is not also done by many governments? Is hand to mouth charity what God asked his disciples to perform? Do you know how many poor and ailing people are on the steps of the Vatican seeking help? Where are the news cameras for them?

Did Jesus live in a gold inlaid palace with servants? Did Jesus bless people of other faiths without promoting the true teachings of his Father? Were gentiles permitted to come into the Christian congregation and carry over their false teachings and fuse them with what he taught? This is the case in every country where Catholicism dominates. All manner of pagan practices are fused and tolerated.
This doesn't "Christianize" the paganism...it "paganizes" the Christianity, which makes it unacceptable to God.
Read Paul's words in 2 Cor 6:14-18 and see that a complete "separation" from "unclean" or contaminated worship is required in order for God to accept people as his children.

The tell me where we see the churches doing that? Sticking a "Christian" label over something pagan does not sanitize it in the eyes of God...only in the eyes of men. :(
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I would love to know what actual good is done by the church that is not also done by many governments? Is hand to mouth charity what God asked his disciples to perform? Do you know how many poor and ailing people are on the steps of the Vatican seeking help? Where are the news cameras for them?

Did Jesus live in a gold inlaid palace with servants? Did Jesus bless people of other faiths without promoting the true teachings of his Father? Were gentiles permitted to come into the Christian congregation and carry over their false teachings and fuse them with what he taught? This is the case in every country where Catholicism dominates. All manner of pagan practices are fused and tolerated.
This doesn't "Christianize" the paganism...it "paganizes" the Christianity, which makes it unacceptable to God.
Read Paul's words in 2 Cor 6:14-18 and see that a complete "separation" from "unclean" or contaminated worship is required in order for God to accept people as his children.

The tell me where we see the churches doing that? Sticking a "Christian" label over something pagan does not sanitize it in the eyes of God...only in the eyes of men. :(

Good grief. Do you have to write an essay. This is not a pro Catholic or anti Catholic thread. I'm addressing the good deed that Pope Francis did. You could easily start another thread about that. You could call it something like " why Jesus doesn't like Catholics" or something to that effect. :rolleyes:
 

kerndog

Member
Good grief. Do you have to write an essay. This is not a pro Catholic or anti Catholic thread. I'm addressing the good deed that Pope Francis did. You could easily start another thread about that. You could call it something like " why Jesus doesn't like Catholics" or something to that effect. :rolleyes:
No essay there, just a number of things a lot of people dont stop to meditate on, god gave us the ability to reason, use our head, when i was young we used to go to christedoms churches, hear a flowery feel good sermon, and then out the door and buisness as usual, thats the problem with people who attend the churches of christendom, their people and their religious leaders, do not follow christ....1Pet. 2:21....1John 2:6.....and the people definately dont do this ...James 2:22-25.....if you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got ! It really is, that simple.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Good grief. Do you have to write an essay.

No...but is anything I said untrue? :shrug:

This is not a pro Catholic or anti Catholic thread. I'm addressing the good deed that Pope Francis did.

My post had everything to do with the OP. It's going to take a lot more than a token gesture on the part of a church's leader to win "Brownie points" with God.
You do know what a token gesture is surely? o_O In the big scheme of things, he did nothing of any consequence. It is all part of the PR exercise.
Had he welcomed thousands, (as head of state) into Vatican City, (which is actually a separate country to the rest of Italy,) now that would have meant something....but how do you choose who to invite and who to leave? There are 109 acres in Vatican City....room for many more than three families if you really want to help.

[/quote]You could easily start another thread about that. You could call it something like " why Jesus doesn't like Catholics" or something to that effect. [/QUOTE]

It wouldn't be just about Catholics.....:facepalm: Jesus doesn't like fake Christians and he doesn't look at labels, he looks at hearts, words and actions.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
No one knows better than JW's what it feels like to be on the end of an "anti" campaign, metis.

This has nothing to do with being "anti-Catholic"...it has everything to do with the activities of this "church" since Constantine first instituted it. In original Christianity, there was no Pope. The position of Pontifex Maximus was a pagan Roman title that was once placed on Constantine himself, who never became a Christian btw. The Pope is still called the "Pontiff" to this day. The Vatican is a hotbed of paganism. St Peter's Square bears the image of Babylonian sun worship and the sun has featured strongly in Catholic worship ever since.
Just Google sun worship in Catholicism and see for yourself. The imagery is unmistakable.

When Jesus says at the judgment that he has NEVER known those "Christians" who enumerate all the things they did "in his name", what do you think he was talking about? The child abuse is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the bloodshed? The inquisition? The torture and forced confessions? Burning people alive at the stake for daring to question the church's activities? The murder of innocent ones in wars sanctioned by the clergy...the adoption of false religious doctrines which were carried over to Protestantism by the reformers....the list is endless. We are not talking about "Christians" here...we are are talking about apostates whose conduct brings shame and disgrace on the name of the one they claim to worship. o_O
I'm very familiar with the JW's as I have lived next to two families of them for over 30 years for one and 20 for the other, and I have talked with them on many occasions about this, plus have read some of their literature.

What you say above in regards to "sun worship" is simply a fabrication as I used to teach a comparative religions that covered early and later church history, and also my wife is Catholic and I have made some presentations at her church. What you are doing is conflating "symbolism" with "worship".

Your charge of "false doctrines" is highly debatable, to say the least, and there has been corruption, pedofelia, etc. to be found in all religious groups, including yours. The Catholics have admitted as such, albeit it took them a long time to get there, but at least they have done so and are working on it. Do you admit this happens in your body or are you going to deny it?

Finally, I would suggest that a "Christian" is one who believes in Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit and tries to live a life style dictated by the "N.T.", so for you to say they are "apostates" and therefore not "Christian", is pathetically judgmental and bigoted, especially in light that some Christian groups say the same about your faith. However, to its credit, the RCC does not do that.

So, as a non-Christian, I would take their approach any day of the week over yours, especially since you have ignored Jesus' teachings of "judge ye not" in regards to Catholics and Protestants.

BTW, how many times have the JW's predicted the end of the world? We're still here.
 
Top