From what I understand, Islam teaches that angels do not have free will. Is this true? Why would God give humans free will but not angels?
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What kind of a god would make a place like Hell/Hellfire?
- Thread starter YmirGF
- Start date
Yes angels don't have free will , the only two creatures whom had free will are Jinny and human being.
Your last question suppose answser by Him !
BTW does the Christianity teach that angels had free will ?
Cool...thanks for clarifying.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Cheery outlook, ain't it?
It does beg the question why a being who needs nothing would create a host of beings to live in eternal servitude.
Actually, I was pretty happy to get a simple, straight answer. Not my belief, but too often simple concepts are danced around.
At least with this type of answer the decision points are clarified.
JustWondering
Jerk
A sadistic one.
Eternal torture cannot be justified as anything more than bloodthirsty sadism.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
If God was so irrational and cruel to create a hell, I would not want to argue with him or **** him off. I mean he is all powerful. But what we see in the Bible is God welcoming people to argue with him. Abraham repeatedly argued with God trying to convince him not to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. But if you find out different when you die, don't be stupid and argue with an all powerful psychopath.
As I thought, thanks.
So no one has found the answer yet? I was wondering how Islam explains the problem of evil. If Allah says it's okay to deny an intelligent being free will (as he did with the angels), then He could have done the same for humans and the djinn, thus keeping the world perfect and free of evil.
Yes, as Satan in Christianity is seen as a fallen angel who disobeyed God.
In that case, would not servant be a better description of us than slave?
A slave has no free will, but we who serve The Holy One do so willingly, by our own choice.
Judaism also teaches that angels have no free will, there is no story of 'fallen angels' in our Tanach.
We have no equivalent to Jinn, so I cannot comment on them. Perhaps the region we lived in had none.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
No, I am not a slave.
By the way all the slaves have a cost as they are commodity. To whom God pays for the cost of his slaves?
I am talk about Muslims,the treatment of humans to each other is different than God treat human.
Most of human being worship such God.
"God" did NOT create "hell" as a place of eternal torment.
This concept was CREATED by the early church (catholic) to literally scare
the hell out of illiterate converts.
Just one of a number of myths and lies to cause FEAR and demand church membership.
( read get money from the most poor and illiterate )
(catholic, small case "c" means universal)
The notion of a hell of eternal torture for the unrepentant sinner is so woven into the
fabric of religion that its accepted as " truth".
It ain't.
This concept was CREATED by the early church (catholic) to literally scare
the hell out of illiterate converts.
Just one of a number of myths and lies to cause FEAR and demand church membership.
( read get money from the most poor and illiterate )
(catholic, small case "c" means universal)
The notion of a hell of eternal torture for the unrepentant sinner is so woven into the
fabric of religion that its accepted as " truth".
It ain't.
Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
Is evil a problem? God created all things. God created good and evil. Since Satan never had free will, it isn't possible for him to disobey God. It seems sometimes that Christianity believes in two gods, one good and one evil, and they are warring with each other. I never understood something, so Christians say Lucifer was in heaven, and then evil was found in him. Where did this evil come from? Did it just spontaneously generate? That doesn't make sense. No there is one God and he created all things, even good and evil.
All the argument that if God is omnipotent, omniscient and all good, evil can't exist. Exactly right. God is all powerful, all knowing and all good, but he can't be all three at the same time. I mean, if God created evil, then maybe he's got a dark side as well.
I believe in a strict monotheism. I don't believe in an arch nemesis to God. There is no Satan the way he is pictured in Christianity.
Rajina
Member
I think servant is not the right word because we are not doing any service to God and God doesn't need our service. A servant is not owned by the master, but we are owned by God.
Slave is the right word because God owns us, we depend on the countless Mercies of God, we are entirely under the control of God except the free will which He has given us.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
You choose the heaven or hell you want to be in. You're already there. You either want to be like God and love others or you're in a hell constructed of your hate. God is either with you now (heaven) or not (hell). It's your choice. Most of us live in a hybrid of the two which can be incredibly frustrating. Just as we start to reap the benefits of love, we devolve into some pettiness and ruin it all.
A slave has no free will, so it's not the correct term.
G-d does not need a servant, that's true, but why would he need a slave either?
However, his creation might need servants in it, to maintain it.
Mackerni
Libertarian Unitarian
In my religion, the Universe (and that means ultimately, Us) manifested itself so that if there was no intelligent life to keep the glue together, it would indefinitely span and energy would decay at faster rates. As scientists have made theories of other Universes that wouldn't be able to support life at all, I'm glad we exist. My religion stats that there are two possible outcomes for life: infinite entropy or infinite extropy. Infinite entropy, or Heat Death, is the result when no work gets accomplished, and we let the Universe expand forever and ever. Infinite extropy, on the other hand, also called The Omega Point, is the result of intelligent life creating an-ever more complex system of energy condensation and expansion. On the one hand, Heat Death means everything is cold, dark, dead forever. (like Hell) On the other hand, The Omega Point will bring us back to the very beginning and even before that, condensing the heat and energy so tightly that it will result in another Big Bang, so, just like the Omega Point, I believe it is temporary. (the Omega Point is Heaven) On the other hand, Heat Death, could be permanent.
And yes, I do know this sounds like science fiction.
And yes, I do know this sounds like science fiction.
gnostic
The Lost One
The whole hell is not very old in the Abrahamic religions, and didn't exist 300 years before Jesus.
The Old Testament books don't have hell or anything resembling that Christian NT literature and belief.
The place where the wicked are punished, don't exist until the Hellenistic period, when some Jews were influenced by religions of the Greeks and Egyptians, in which the departed shades were judged. The hell that later showed up in the gospels and Revelation were clearly influenced by the pre-Christian writings, like the two books of Enoch.
Enoch, the one who supposedly walked with God, and later vanished in his 365th year. In these two books of Enoch, Enoch was described as the Scribe Of God, directly learning the prophecies from God, that even god's archangels were clueless of.
In the second book of Enoch (known as 2 Enoch or the Secret Book of Enoch), in which the ascribed author - Enoch - was said to have ascended the 10 heavens, witnessed the strange wonders of these heavens, before returning to his home, before he disappeared, but not before giving the volumes of books to his son.
In this book, he described the 2nd heaven where sinful angels were punished (2 Enoch 7), and it was dark heaven, blacker than the nights on earth.
And in the 5th heaven (2 Enoch 18), is another place where God keep chief fallen angels known as the Watchers in prison and tormented. The Watchers were the ones had taken mortal women as wives and sired giants (Nephilim). The Nephilim (described more fully in 1 Enoch, in the first volume known as the Book of Watchers, in which good archangels waged wars against the fallen Watchers) was the reason why the flood occurred in Noah's days (to destroy the Nephilim), a flood that God had predicted (2 Enoch 34) when Enoch met God in the 10th heaven (2 Enoch 22).
It is the 3rd heaven, which was divided into two separate parts, which is of interests, relating to hell. In one half of the 3rd heaven, it was the garden of Eden, but on the other side, is where mortals, not angels, were punished for their sins.
The 2nd, 3rd and 5th heavens were the Hellenistic Jew versions of the Greek Tartarus or Egyptian Duat. This is where Christians got their idea about hell, from the books attributed to the patriarch Enoch. the books were influential enough that the epistle of Jude stated that Enoch had some prophecies (prophecies that were obviously in the two books of Enoch).
The Old Testament books don't have hell or anything resembling that Christian NT literature and belief.
The place where the wicked are punished, don't exist until the Hellenistic period, when some Jews were influenced by religions of the Greeks and Egyptians, in which the departed shades were judged. The hell that later showed up in the gospels and Revelation were clearly influenced by the pre-Christian writings, like the two books of Enoch.
Enoch, the one who supposedly walked with God, and later vanished in his 365th year. In these two books of Enoch, Enoch was described as the Scribe Of God, directly learning the prophecies from God, that even god's archangels were clueless of.
In the second book of Enoch (known as 2 Enoch or the Secret Book of Enoch), in which the ascribed author - Enoch - was said to have ascended the 10 heavens, witnessed the strange wonders of these heavens, before returning to his home, before he disappeared, but not before giving the volumes of books to his son.
In this book, he described the 2nd heaven where sinful angels were punished (2 Enoch 7), and it was dark heaven, blacker than the nights on earth.
And in the 5th heaven (2 Enoch 18), is another place where God keep chief fallen angels known as the Watchers in prison and tormented. The Watchers were the ones had taken mortal women as wives and sired giants (Nephilim). The Nephilim (described more fully in 1 Enoch, in the first volume known as the Book of Watchers, in which good archangels waged wars against the fallen Watchers) was the reason why the flood occurred in Noah's days (to destroy the Nephilim), a flood that God had predicted (2 Enoch 34) when Enoch met God in the 10th heaven (2 Enoch 22).
It is the 3rd heaven, which was divided into two separate parts, which is of interests, relating to hell. In one half of the 3rd heaven, it was the garden of Eden, but on the other side, is where mortals, not angels, were punished for their sins.
The 2nd, 3rd and 5th heavens were the Hellenistic Jew versions of the Greek Tartarus or Egyptian Duat. This is where Christians got their idea about hell, from the books attributed to the patriarch Enoch. the books were influential enough that the epistle of Jude stated that Enoch had some prophecies (prophecies that were obviously in the two books of Enoch).
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
The problem is that you seem to think that our ancestors were very ignorant and unintelligent beings who were fooled into a set of beliefs or way of life simply by the threat of an "imaginary" fiery place unless they obeyed.
Correct me i'f I'm wrong in but it seems rather odd and immature to think that they could be fooled into just about anything by almost anyone.
You didn't understand the example or my explanation.