blue taylor
Active Member
Kingdom? According to Jesus, the Kingdom is all around you., you just can not see it. And it is.
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What Jehovah's Witnesses got right.
- Thread starter blue taylor
- Start date
ros′ in the Gospel accounts when referring to the instrument of execution on which Jesus died refers to an upright pole without a crossbeam. Their New World Translation of the Bible therefore uses the phrase "torturestake" to translate the Greek word σταυρός (stauros) at Matthew 27:40, Mark 15:30 and Luke 23:26.
Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia, the free ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_of_Jesus'_crucifixion
What? I said WHEN. I didn't say he didn't. When did God establish Jesus Christ in his kingdom?
I don't mean what human year was it. I am asking for scriptural proof when it was. What scripture or scriptures describe the establishment of God's kingdom with Jesus as the king?
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Many people, JWs and others, say Jesus receives a crown HERE; Revelation 6:2. To receive a crown means to become king. So, did Jesus become king as described at Revelation 6:2?
OR
has he been king since his resurrection?
Can anyone explain to me how he became king twice?
OR
has he been king since his resurrection?
Can anyone explain to me how he became king twice?
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Brian Schuh
Well-Known Member
The first time the Jehovah Witnesses predicted the end of the world, the world did not end. But something did happen- it was the beginning of World War I. Compare this to the Millerites who said the end would be in 1844. Not only didn't the world end, but nothing eventful happened. So congrats to the Jehovah's.
YOU have been handfed a huge load of crap about us, I have asked time after time, for a response to my original post from THE BIBLE, you know, the book all of you CLAIM to use to support your beliefs, what I get is , sidestepping and evasion of the subject, I am not purposely trying to offend or anger anybody, Gods word is what I base my faith on, I have spent a great deal of time an effort to try and determine what the bible REALLY teaches, up until 15 or 20 years ago I had absolutely no interest in religion, I hated so called Christians with a passion, I considered them to be some of the worst hypocrites on the face of the planet, I now do not hate no man, I am at peace with all men !! Through my studies, I have found beyond a doubt, what the bible really teaches and why so so many denominations exist, when there should only be one according to the bible. I was not raised a JW, I grew up in a home very much like most americans, my father was a Korean combat war vet, seen the effect on him and his brother who was also a vet of the same war. So in a lot of respects, I am just like most people in this country,but I have seen the error of my former Hawkish beliefs. So , if you will indulge me, please do what I asked, so that all can see we are not the ignorant people you have been conditioned to believe we are.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Say what you want about JWs, but one thing they definitely have down to a T is illustration: the artwork on all of their pamphlets and books are amazing.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Predictions (by date of publication) include:
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- 1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
- 1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."[29]
- 1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
- 1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
- 1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions." Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy." The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
- 1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
- 1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
- 1924: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
- 1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
- 1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
- 1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us."[38]
- 1961: Awake! magazine stated that the heavenly kingdom "will, within the twentieth century, cleanse the entire earth of wickedness."[39]
- 1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that."[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
- 1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
- 1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
- 1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years." Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45]
- 1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "shortly, within our twentieth century".[46]
- 1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service."[47]
- 1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[48]
- Source: Wikipedia
JustWondering
Jerk
JW's got something wrong however, their stance on blood transfusions. They take a verse saying not to spill thy brothers blood to mean that blood transfusions go against god. Kind of a big leap there don't you think? Does anyone know if JW's are against vaccinations?
A Greased Scotsman said:
What if God's behavior is not erratic at all...what if man's limited understanding makes it just appear that way? I have studied the Bible for many years and I can tell you that I have not found God's behavior to be "erratic" in the slightest way. We don't have to have a full understanding of how God thinks because his ways and thoughts are often beyond our comprehension, but "erratic" is not something he can ever be guilty of. Human behavior is erratic. God is not human.
This is pure ignorance talking. Did you ever ask why incest was made part of God's law so much later in man's history? It did not come into force until over 2,500 years after Adam was created.
Initially, there was no such thing as incest because there was no law against it. Abraham and Sarah were half brother and sister. It was Abraham's family line that produced the Messiah. It was not a moral law as much as it was a law to protect from defects in the offspring in later generations.
It was actually in the master plan for humans to "fill the earth" with their kind. That would have been a bit impossible if there was no incest allowed. The reason why the law was introduced later is because genetically, inbreeding causes defects in the offspring. The further away from human perfection we get, the greater the defects become. Pakistani Muslims are reaping a bumper harvest of defective offspring because of their traditional first cousin marriages. The tradition is stronger than common sense. Regardless of the consequences, they still carry it on even outside of Pakistan...as Britain is now experiencing.
Shaking my head again.....where do you get these ideas? The word "jealous" when it pertains to the Creator is one of tolerating no other God to rule humanity but him. When humans chose to worship other gods and form their own religions outside of his instructions, they only caused unnecessary pain and suffering for themselves. Jehovah is the Sovereign of the universe and following his instructions brings no grief.
His is a jealousy that is positive, not negative. Walking away from the true God to worship false gods has resulted in some of the bloodiest wars on this planet. Religious hatreds still fester even today....Look at Syria.
Sticking with the true God and obeying him would have spared a lot of lives. Put the blame where it lies....with humans.
On the contrary, he never said "thou shalt not kill" He said "you must not murder". Murder is the unlawful taking of human life. God had the death penalty applied in Israel for capital offenses, so taking life lawfully was something God sanctioned in circumstances that warranted it. He is the Creator so he has full authority over life and death.
Pharaoh was given so many opportunities to prevent every one of the plagues that God sent to humiliate Egypt's gods. Pharaoh was considered a god in Egypt, but the true God showed him up for what he was. Pharaoh was to blame for the deaths of Egypt's firstborn along with all his cavalrymen who perished in the Red Sea...what a price to pay for pride and arrogance.
Again, that is a completely twisted view of what really happened.
Noah was warned about what God was going to do to a world of mankind where the "inclinations of his heart was only bad all the time". The only people God found worthy of life was Noah and his family.
It took decades for them to build this enormous structure, the detailed plans of which were given to Noah to follow explicitly. During the whole period, Noah preached righteousness to that faithless and wicked generation, but not a soul listened to his warning, spurred on by the fact that everyone thought he was a crackpot. What were they thinking when the water started swirling around their feet? Too late to change their minds then. Jesus used this as an example of what will happen again. (Matt 24:37-39)
Ah, but he pre-determines nothing...that is why we have free will. He forces no one to serve him or to worship him. He allows us enough rope to either hang ourselves, or to pull ourselves closer to him, by our own choices. The trouble is, as you have demonstrated, too many are willing to blame God for everything but not accept responsibility for their own choices and ignorance. People should learn what an "informed choice" really is. Most are "uninformed by choice".
You show an extraordinary lack of knowledge of human nature. God's nation of Israel had his laws and were gifted a land that would have become like a paradise if only they had obeyed their God. His blessing would have guaranteed a wonderful life and a brilliant future...but even though they had God's laws, his presence and his backing, he did not condone their disobedience or hold back punishment for their failure to obey him. He allowed them to experience the consequences of failing to do as he instructed them. He gave them the option of serving him or not and they accepted his terms. He lived up to his end of the bargain...they did not.
Free will was never given without limits, so it was never that kind of "freedom" to begin with. It was free enough to get human into trouble though.
If humans had used their free will within the parameters set by the Creator, the outcome would have been vastly different. God isn't stupid. Why would he give us free will if he didn't want us to use it wisely? He set the guidelines so that its exercise would be a blessing to us every day...but the abuse of it turned the blessing into a curse. This is the object lesson....we live in a world where free will is abused every day....do we love it?
As the creator of the freedom you enjoy to criticize him, perhaps you might just regret your position when he requires an accounting from you for the way you have lived the life he gave you. It really doesn't make sense to bite the hand that created you...unless of course, you don't want to live anymore?
Is it using free will correctly to choose to murder someone? To rape, to steal, to defraud, to ram your car into someone who might have cut you off in traffic? Can you use your free will to run a red light or to drive the wrong way down a freeway? Can to assault someone who looked at you the wrong way or made a remark that offended you? Do you see the stupidity in your question?
Greased Scotsman...meet God, your Creator.
No disaster happens when humans obey the instructions of their Maker. If you break the law there are consequences.....its not God's fault if you disobey him because he tells you what the penalty is before you do a single thing. How stupid not to expect the stated penalty.
Not believing in him, doesn't make him disappear.
JustWondering said:
Who told you that? The command not to consume blood was first given to Noah when he came out of the ark. Humans were given permission to eat the flesh of animals but they were forbidden to eat their blood. (Gen 9:1-4)
The prohibition was carried over into God's law to Israel. Consuming blood carried the death penalty. (Lev 17:14)
And then it was restated to Christians as a "necessary thing" because it was a practice of the gentiles to eat blood. (Acts 15:28, 29)
If God had it repeated three times in man's history and these commands are contained in his word, then it must be important.
Blood transfusions were not in use when the law was given, but the principal remains the same. Blood is sacred to God and is not to be consumed under any circumstance.
Not at all. When a person is unable to feed by mouth, they are often fed intravenously. The command for Christians was to "abstain from blood" and the last time I looked, "abstain" meant not to have something at all, in any form.
Is there some reason you can't ask us directly? Vaccinations are a conscience issue. I personally don't like them because of the way they are administered and because of the mercury used as a preservative. I see that Robert Deniro has sparked another debate about the connection between vaccinations and autism. I have my suspicions. Nothing to do with being a JW.
It seems to be ok with just about everyone that the Jehovah's Witnesses put some of the 144,000 on Earth and some in Heaven.
I am certain I am no mathematics scholar but I can see doing so changes the 144,000. You know division?
Another thing. People say the 144,000 show up only at the end of "this system of things" and of course they all follow the one called Jesus Christ which means there aren't any Jews in the bunch but where does the Bible say they are FROM?
Can I remind everyone of something, please? Ephesians 4:25 Exodus 20:16 Psalms 15:2
Proverbs 24:28 Zechariah 8:16 Colossians 3:9 1 Peter 2:1
I am certain I am no mathematics scholar but I can see doing so changes the 144,000. You know division?
Another thing. People say the 144,000 show up only at the end of "this system of things" and of course they all follow the one called Jesus Christ which means there aren't any Jews in the bunch but where does the Bible say they are FROM?
Can I remind everyone of something, please? Ephesians 4:25 Exodus 20:16 Psalms 15:2
Proverbs 24:28 Zechariah 8:16 Colossians 3:9 1 Peter 2:1
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djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Hey buddy, why should I get a Vines when your GB used the IBD? Your GB didn't use the Vines in their reference of trying to prove Jesus was on a stake? I used the exact book and reference they used, (I posted the whole reference) why should I look somewhere else? Don't you accept what they used?
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Don't you want to read the "whole" story of the cross from the "exact" reference your GB used in it's "reasoning" book? Why should we look at a different book than your GB used?
@djhwoodwerks Will you explain to me how Jesus became the king twice? Matthew 28:18 Revelation 6:2
Blue taylor, this Kingdom you are referring to, is much, much more than just something all around you, or, within your heart, you are obviously quoting LUKE 17:20,21.So lets take a look at that verse, in vs.20 we see Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, as we know,Jesus had a very low opinion of the Pharisees because these men had the RESPONSIBILITY of teach the people,and for failing miserably at this he called them serpents and vipers at one point (Matthew Chpt. 23). Some Bible translations use the words "WITHIN YOU" example...KJV. NASB,and others, BUT, some like the NRSV, NET and others use the words "AMONG YOU" or "IN YOUR MIDST" It can mean either one in the Koine Greek language. So , how are we to know which translation is correct, since it is vital to understanding what Jesus meant, correct ? ANWER....CONTEXT. Since Jesus was talking to religious leaders who in Jesus opinion, were wicked, He could not possibly meant the kingdom of God was within THEIR HEART !!... Let me quote you the NET Bibles translation note on this and their choice for using "IN YOUR MIDST"...QUOTE: "This is a far better translation than "in you"... Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees that the kingdom was inside them The reference is to Jesus present in their midst , he brings the kingdom"... UNQUOTE ! As gods representative of gods kingdom, he was walking all around them and they DID NOT recognize it. This KINGDOM that Jesus preached about was his main mission here on earth... (LUKE 4:43)...This is the means by which God will solve mankinds severe problems, it will be a LITTERAL government here on earth, as it was never Gods intention in the beginning for man to rule himself...(Jeremiah 10:23) It is the government that Daniel prophesied about at (Daniel 2:44...7:13,14) Notice what that kingdom will do to ALL of mans forms of government here on earth ! If you would like to discuss more on this topic, let me know, it IS THE WHOLE THEME OF THE BIBLE, FROM BEGINING TO END !! It starts with the VERY FIRST prophecy in the bible, (can you tell me where ?)
DITTO !!
YOU are now showing your desperation, the point is we DONT KNEED OUR materials to prove what it is, it is knowledge that Christendom has had for over 150 yrs, much material has been written on this pagan symbol and suppressed by Christendom, if your own scholars know what it is, and you still choose to cling to it,then it is YOUR negligence !...John 4:24...8:32...1 Tim 2:4...John 18:37... whos side are you on, on this issue ? I can go much , much further on this topic if you are game, ARE YOU ? and by the way, you have not answered my polite request, you are STILL avoiding it, sidestepping it ! This will be my last attempt to kindly request what I asked, oh, and don't forget to underline boldly, like above !!
John 6:51