• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does the Bible Have to be "True"?

First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
savagewind said:
Please tell us once and for all. Is scripture the word of God or is the one called "Jesus" the word of God?
Click to expand...

John said that Jesus is the word of God. Elsewhere in the Bible it claims to be the word of God. So they both are.

Also, the word of God is alive. It is the person of Jesus and presents itself in scripture. I hope that helps.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
John said that Jesus is the word of God. Elsewhere in the Bible it claims to be the word of God. So they both are.

Also, the word of God is alive. It is the person of Jesus and presents itself in scripture. I hope that helps.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with you. I believe that all the true words of God which were spoken through the prophets are able to grow in the believing person thus it can be said of them that they are alive. I am not aware of anything which suggests there are TWO words of God. If the bible is the word of God and Jesus is the word of God then there would be two. I understand that the way of Christ can be found IN the Bible. It is the way I found it but that does not prove that it is the only way. I think it is absolutely the wrong way to teach that the Bible is Jesus Christ. The Bible is one thing. God's son to obey is another person. The Bible is not a person. Can anyone say, "the Bible is my friend"? I mean other than me. :D I can very truly say that the son of God is my friend. My true friend? Time will tell.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
savagewind said:
I tend to agree with you. I believe that all the true words of God which were spoken through the prophets are able to grow in the believing person thus it can be said of them that they are alive. I am not aware of anything which suggests there are TWO words of God. If the bible is the word of God and Jesus is the word of God then there would be two. I understand that the way of Christ can be found IN the Bible. It is the way I found it but that does not prove that it is the only way. I think it is absolutely the wrong way to teach that the Bible is Jesus Christ. The Bible is one thing. God's son to obey is another person. The Bible is not a person. Can anyone say, "the Bible is my friend"? I mean other than me. :D I can very truly say that the son of God is my friend. My true friend? Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't see it quite the way you do, though we at least agree that the Bible is the word of God. So we have that much in common and that is a very good thing.

The way I see it Jesus Christ is the word of God. Jesus presents Himself in scripture through the prophets. I believe the word of God isn't something written in ink with a pen. It is alive and was presented to the world in human form in Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ.

St. Paul said that the Holy Spirit communicates not with words, but more like groans. In other words, the Holy Spirit Himself is the word of God and He communicates with us without words but spiritually. That's my take on it.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
Well, I don't see it quite the way you do, though we at least agree that the Bible is the word of God. So we have that much in common and that is a very good thing.
Click to expand...
I think you do not know how to listen. James 1:19 I do NOT agree with you that the bible is "The Word of God". I said there is only one word of God. Though I agree that the Bible contains words (note the plural form of the word) of God.

The way I see it Jesus Christ is the word of God. Jesus presents Himself in scripture through the prophets. I believe the word of God isn't something written in ink with a pen. It is alive and was presented to the world in human form in Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I agree with this assessment.

St. Paul said that the Holy Spirit communicates not with words, but more like groans. In other words, the Holy Spirit Himself is the word of God and He communicates with us without words but spiritually. That's my take on it.
Click to expand...
OK. I can't disagree with that.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
"the true Isaiah who actually wrote that book"? :D
Click to expand...
Yeah, the true Isaiah. If I were him, I'd come back to life and file a class action lawsuit of Hebrew prophets against publishers of the Bible for alleged copyright infringement. And if I was Jesus, I would raise all kinds of hell, including demanding that my name be taken down from most of the places where it is. I don't believe a whole lot of the Bible characters would be too happy
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
Brian Schuh said:
Yeah, the true Isaiah. If I were him, I'd come back to life and file a class action lawsuit of Hebrew prophets against publishers of the Bible for alleged copyright infringement. And if I was Jesus, I would raise all kinds of hell, including demanding that my name be taken down from most of the places where it is. I don't believe a whole lot of the Bible characters would be too happy
Click to expand...

You definitely have a most unique view of things Christian. I'll say that for you.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
First Baseman said:
What parts of the Bible do you think are not the word of God?
Click to expand...
Parts?
"Parts" and holiness can not reconciled.

First, know that bones are for holding together a body. Then read this. John 19:36

What MEN have bequeathed us is to be considered wholly. NOT holy. That means it is OK that it is not perfect. God is without need of fixing. We are.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Brian Schuh said:
Yeah, the true Isaiah. If I were him, I'd come back to life and file a class action lawsuit of Hebrew prophets against publishers of the Bible for alleged copyright infringement. And if I was Jesus, I would raise all kinds of hell, including demanding that my name be taken down from most of the places where it is. I don't believe a whole lot of the Bible characters would be too happy
Click to expand...
I agree with you!
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Brian Schuh said:
No matter what the definition of plagiarism, it is theft even though the original author did not actually lose his book. It is obvious that Christians are passing the Hebrew Bible off as something it is not.
Click to expand...
There's no theft. You can't steal an idea, and no Christian writer has tried to pass off anything in the Old Testament as his own work.

This "theft" was so successful, that if one mentions the Book of Isaiah, a person's first thought is of Christianity and Jesus. It has come to be known as a Christian book. The Isaiah who Christians claim wrote the book is not the Isaiah who actually wrote it. As this false Christian Isaiah speaks about Jesus. This is theft in that Christians have robbed much of the world from ever understanding what the true Isaiah who actually wrote that book was trying to say.
Click to expand...
If you're upset, the complaint line forms to the left. You'll be seen after the Belgians who are upset about the term "French" fries and the Chinese people who have their knickers in a twist about all the people who think that Italians invented pasta.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Dear @First Baseman
I do not understand something. I said "What MEN have bequeathed us is to be considered wholly. NOT holy" and you liked the post.
Why?
We strongly disagree about what the bible is. I say it is "something MEN have bequeathed us", but you say it is God who bequeathed it. I say, it "is to be considered wholly. NOT holy" but you say it is "God's word". But I am as sure as sure can be that all words of God are to be considered holy. I think it is impossible for them to be anything other than holy.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
To teach that the bible is the word of God is to suggest that every word in it is the word of God. To teach that the bible is the word of God is to suggest that it is the only place the words of God can be found.
 
First Baseman

First Baseman

Retired athlete
savagewind said:
Dear @First Baseman
I do not understand something. I said "What MEN have bequeathed us is to be considered wholly. NOT holy" and you liked the post.
Why?
We strongly disagree about what the bible is. I say it is "something MEN have bequeathed us", but you say it is God who bequeathed it. I say, it "is to be considered wholly. NOT holy" but you say it is "God's word". But I am as sure as sure can be that all words of God are to be considered holy. I think it is impossible for them to be anything other than holy.
Click to expand...

I don't have to agree wholly with a post to like it. I like the fact that you used scripture to back up your stance. I like the fact that you value the scripture enough to believe it the way you see it.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
There's no theft. You can't steal an idea, and no Christian writer has tried to pass off anything in the Old Testament as his own work.


If you're upset, the complaint line forms to the left. You'll be seen after the Belgians who are upset about the term "French" fries and the Chinese people who have their knickers in a twist about all the people who think that Italians invented pasta.
Click to expand...
This theft wasn't Christians claiming the Bible as their own work. Just like the French stole French fries from Belgium and Italy wrongfully got credit for pasta. I'm glad that you get my point. Now what do you think of Britain digging up all the ancient rulers of Egypt, desecrating their tombs and putting their bodies on display?

After Christians somehow got away with claiming the Bible as their own, some Jews said- as long as they don't get our Talmud, we will be alright. But that didn't stop the Catholic Church from confiscating Talmuds. So now you might say, a governing body confiscating something is not theft. And also the Church burned Talmuds in bon fires. I wonder if the Jews or any other people will ever be able to have something just for themselves.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
savagewind said:
Please tell us once and for all. Is scripture the word of God or is the one called "Jesus" the word of God?
Click to expand...
Both, in all known Gospels including the non-canonical Gospels, Jesus is not portrayed as revealing the divine, but the divine revealed. Unlike an angel or prophet that delivers a message, Jesus according to the Gospels is the very message. The authors of these Gospels use a type of anthropomorphism to convey their message. Jewish scripture does attribute human characteristics to God but not this this extent. These writers had taken metaphors from Jewish scripture and brought them to the next level. They are different then Jewish scripture because they were written by different people at a different time using a different creative license. The goal was not to destroy Judaism but to salvage Judaism after the war.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top