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Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union?

Which form of Government would you rather live under?

  • Nazi Germany

    Votes: 8 47.1%

  • Soviet Union

    Votes: 9 52.9%
  • Total voters
    17
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Just wondering. If America (or your country)were to have to be the equivalent of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, which one would make your life less of a Hell? Obviously we don't want either, but just curious. Growing up, in school History, and from others, I always heard about Hitler and Nazi crimes. Almost never about Joseph Stalin.

It was also Stalin who instituted the first ethnic killing campaigns. There is so much debate about the number of deaths He was responsible, it is tough to know. The estimate is up to 60 million people. The general consensus is 20 million.

But which regime do you think would be less miserable to live under personally? For a Jew there is no question that Nazi Germany would be the greater Hell. However, for people who like to go to Church and freedom of Religion, there was more freedom to practice Religion in Germany, because Nazism was not intrinsically Atheist.

The question is which would cause you less misery personally, not which would do the most damage in General.
th
th
 
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Godobeyer

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
PopeADope said:
Just wondering. If America (or your country)were to have to be the equivalent of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, which one would make your life less of a Hell? Obviously we don't want either, but just curious. Growing up, in school History, and from others, I always heard about Hitler and Nazi crimes. Almost never about Joseph Stalin.

It was also Stalin who instituted the first ethnic killing campaigns. There is so much debate about the number of deaths He was responsible, it is tough to know. The estimate is up to 60 million people. The general consensus is 20 million.

But which regime do you think would be less miserable to live under personally? For a Jew there is no question that Nazi Germany would be the greater Hell. However, for people who like to go to Church and freedom of Religion, there was more freedom to practice Religion in Germany, because Nazism was not intrinsically Atheist.

Once again. If you wish to say which one is the lesser of two evils, I appreciate the feedback, but if you answer in the poll, the question is which would cause you less misery personally, not which would do the most damage in General.
th
th
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I vote for SU ,because Nazi are racist but SU not racist regime.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Godobeyer said:
I vote for SU ,because Nazi are racist but SU not racist regime.
Click to expand...
They were allies with Germany despite knowing how antisemitic and racist the Nazis were. It was an alliance Stalin didn't want to break up.

They killed minorities in the Caucuses and anyone East of the Urals were inferior.

Stalin did commit population transfers, and genoicide, ethnic cleansing, which is an indicator He was indeed racist, but the Soviet Union is overall the lesser of the two evils perhaps

For me personally, it would be easier in Nazi Germany simply because it wasn't Atheist.

However, if we were to go by quantity , Communism killed far far more people:
Click to expand...
 
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Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
The USSR, definitely. It was pretty horrible, but you could probably get through by keeping your head down, not associating with certain people and keeping quiet. Although it was never really communist in actuality, at least its stated ideology more closely matches my own ideals.
PopeADope said:
They were allies with Germany despite knowing how antisemitic and racist the Nazis were. It was an alliance Stalin didn't want to break up.

They killed minorities in the Caucuses and anyone East of the Urals were inferior.

Stalin did commit population transfers, and genoicide, ethnic cleansing, which is an indicator He was indeed racist, but the Soviet Union is overall the lesser of the two evils imho.

For me personally, it would be easier in Nazi Germany simply because it wasn't as Atheist, but overall I'd consider Nazism the greater evil.

However, if we were to go by quantity , Communism killed far far more people:
Click to expand...
Most of those deaths were from famine (due to the bs pseudo-scientific theories promoted by the government (such as Lysenkoism) and government mismanagement, not planned extermination), governmental failure in various areas, social instability and warfare - not direct and planned extermination.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
The USSR, definitely. It was pretty horrible, but you could probably get through by keeping your head down, not associating with certain people and keeping quiet. Although it was never really communist in actuality, at least its stated ideology more closely matches my own ideals.

Most of those deaths were from famine (due to the bs pseudo-scientific theories promoted by the government (such as Lysenkoism) and government mismanagement, not planned extermination), governmental failure in various areas, social instability and warfare - not direct and planned extermination.
Click to expand...
So how would you explain it as not being communism?
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
PopeADope said:
So how would you explain it as not being communism?
Click to expand...
"A communist society or communist system is the type of society and economic system postulated to emerge from technological advances in the productive forces in Marxist thought, representing the ultimate goal of the political ideology of Communism. A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of the exploitation of labor. In his Critique of the Gotha Programme Karl Marx referred to this stage of development as upper-stage communism.[4]"

Did they ever reach that goal? No. A communist society was their stated goal, but it hasn't happened.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
PopeADope said:
Just wondering. If America (or your country)were to have to be the equivalent of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany, which one would make your life less of a Hell? Obviously we don't want either, but just curious. Growing up, in school History, and from others, I always heard about Hitler and Nazi crimes. Almost never about Joseph Stalin.

It was also Stalin who instituted the first ethnic killing campaigns. There is so much debate about the number of deaths He was responsible, it is tough to know. The estimate is up to 60 million people. The general consensus is 20 million.

But which regime do you think would be less miserable to live under personally? For a Jew there is no question that Nazi Germany would be the greater Hell. However, for people who like to go to Church and freedom of Religion, there was more freedom to practice Religion in Germany, because Nazism was not intrinsically Atheist.

The question is which would cause you less misery personally, not which would do the most damage in General.
th
th
Click to expand...

Yes It's odd, I grew up only a couple of generations after the greatest devastation humanity has ever seen, and I didn't even know NAZI meant national German socialist party until I left school.
Similarly the USSR was the union of soviet SOCIALST republics, socialist first and foremost by their own identification,not the 'USCR'

Many in the free world shared the same interest in this ideology, and still do today, I don't think we can ever feel safe to assume this threat can never rise like this again.

So both were the same disastrous ideology to live under, their damage was only limited by the intervention of the free world, as in China, N Korea, socialism is a bottomless pit, it will drag a country ever downwards until something changes one way or another.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Guy Threepwood said:
Yes It's odd, I grew up only a couple of generations after the greatest devastation humanity has ever seen, and I didn't even know NAZI meant national German socialist party until I left school.
Similarly the USSR was the union of soviet SOCIALST republics, socialist first and foremost by their own identification,not the 'USCR'

Many in the free world shared the same interest in this ideology, and still do today, I don't think we can ever feel safe to assume this threat can never rise like this again.

So both were the same disastrous ideology to live under, their damage was only limited by the intervention of the free world, as in China, N Korea, socialism is a bottomless pit, it will drag a country ever downwards until something changes one way or another.
Click to expand...
So do you think Socialism as it is practiced in Europe today is leading into this dangerous direction which could lead to Dictatorships or Gulags in my lifetime (age 28)?

That is a good point that both regimes were socialist.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I voted for <Nazi>.
- I know more German than Russian.
- Nazis were snappier dressers.
- Nazis allowed some capitalism.
- Better management.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
PopeADope said:
So do you think Socialism as it is practiced in Europe today is leading into this dangerous direction which could lead to Dictatorships or Gulags in my lifetime (age 28)?

That is a good point that both regimes were socialist.
Click to expand...

It's a milder case of socialism perhaps, but things can and have deteriorated very very quickly before.. I think the greater main threat is elsewhere- where again the term is oddly avoided

Syria is ruled by the Arab SOCIALIST Baath party, Hussein was also a Baathist socialist- when was/is this ever mentioned? . While there are several staunchly Islamic countries , e.g. Qatar, Bahrain, UAE- which are hardly ideal societies, but very wealthy, stable, functional in comparison, because they embrace free markets to a far greater extent. All the trouble in the ME is linked to the same unmentionable political ideology, yet is invariably blamed on religion

what was the target on 9-11- a global symbol of Christianity? or capitalism? There seems a very strange tendency, to play down the most obvious shared thread, running through all the worlds worst biggest problems during the last 100 years.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Godobeyer said:
I vote for SU ,because Nazi are racist but SU not racist regime.
Click to expand...
I will add to that some interesting facts that Hitler liked Muslims more than He liked most other Europeans: He said,
"The peoples of Islam will always be closer to us than, for example, France".

And He was hoping for an Arab Alliance to push the British out of the Mideast. "This order began: "The Arab Freedom Movement in the Middle East is our natural ally against England"....Arabs thought the Germans would free them from the rule of the old colonial powers France and Britain."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
Click to expand...

The Soviet Union on the other hand would be hostile toward Islam and all Religions, where Hitler was hoping for Alliance with them, and there was often collaboration between their leaders.

I guess evil is evil...maybe instead of me asking which is preferable the question should have been "What is the difference"?
 
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Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Would you rather drown in urine or be burned alive?

I would have been dead or worse under either regime.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Mister Emu said:
Would you rather drown in urine or be burned alive?

I would have been dead or worse under either regime.
Click to expand...
I was more hoping to see what is the consensus if there is or is not a greater evil in this case, or if any interesting history lessons come out of it.
 
Mister Emu

Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
PopeADope said:
I was more hoping to see what is the consensus if there is or is not a greater evil in this case, or if any interesting history lessons come out of it.
Click to expand...
Statistically, communism is the greatest evil ever perpetrated on mankind. That doesn't in any way lessen the evil that Nazi created, they were just, fortunately, relatively localized and short lived in power.

Historical lessons stemming from both: Never trust anybody who says they need more power to look out for your best interest.
 
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