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Right to die legislation.

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
What kind of mental illnesses do you have in mind?
Any kind. In psychosis or mania there is often denial and resistance to treatment. These can also happen in depression, anxiety, OCD, personality disorders, eating disorders and less common disorders. There are many reasons why someone may resist treatment. To deny them compulsory treatment where it is indicated could be likened to denying lifesaving treatment to someone with heart disease or diabetes.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
BUT I have some reservations about family members pressurising ill relatives to die.
Exactly, I feel these are two separate issues. One is related to an individuals decision to end their own life, while another is outside pressure for someone else to die.
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
Exactly, I feel these are two separate issues. One is related to an individuals decision to end their own life, while another is outside pressure for someone else to die.
Indeed. The system should not allow anyone to pressure the person to die. Their wish to remain alive must be protected. Advance directives are important.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
Indeed. The system should not allow anyone to pressure the person to die. Their wish to remain alive must be protected. Advance directives are important.
I guess the tricky part is how do you tell the difference? I suppose some sort of screening process? I haven't really thought that much about it.
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
I guess the tricky part is how do you tell the difference? I suppose some sort of screening process? I haven't really thought that much about it.
I think having documentation ahead of time is helpful. The person should receive medical and legal advice to help them decide. Then that is recorded, and updated at intervals if the situation changes or the person wants to change their instructions.

Currently, most people do not have any documentation recording their wishes if they should become incapacitated by illness or injury. So, in cases where the person cannot understand or communicate their wishes, the state has the power to decide, and this is carried out by the courts. NZ law leans heavily towards immediate family having a say, but ultimately the Family Court is the arbiter. (I guess a family could appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court if they wanted to). The Court will always seek medical advice about the person's situation and prognosis, and weigh that against any previously stated wishes, and the views of the family.

So, the legal principles and processes for decision making are largely already there, and just need some tweaking.

In emergency situations, doctors are empowered to make decisions according to defined principles, but they know their decisions can be reviewed and challenged, so they are typically conservative when deciding.
 

Covellite

Active Member
We live today in a highly developed society and it's really very sad that some people can escape the suffering only by ending life. There must be other ways to deal with suffering, I'm sure it's very realistic. But, this problem is still underestimated and neglected, and almost all people find that suffering is normal part of everybody's life.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Not if said person doesn't want and likely won't respond to treatment.
How you be sure that his mind is healthy , maybe he just need the correct cure .
I don't agree with right to die , because it's suicide .
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
We live today in a highly developed society and it's really very sad that some people can escape the suffering only by ending life. There must be other ways to deal with suffering, I'm sure it's very realistic. But, this problem is still underestimated and neglected, and almost all people find that suffering is normal part of everybody's life.

It really is a sensitive and very personal issue with no simple answers. Many different situations have to considered. I appreciate the input from everyone.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How you be sure that his mind is healthy , maybe he just need the correct cure .
I don't agree with right to die , because it's suicide .

Thanks for your input Godobeyer. Is your opinion due to your religious conviction, or just personal? In your opinion is there any situation that would allow for a person choosing to end their life such as terminal illness?
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
We live today in a highly developed society and it's really very sad that some people can escape the suffering only by ending life. There must be other ways to deal with suffering, I'm sure it's very realistic. But, this problem is still underestimated and neglected, and almost all people find that suffering is normal part of everybody's life.
The suffering that is a normal part of life is not the same as the suffering people have that leads them to think about voluntary euthanasia. I disagree that there are realistic treatments for suffering. Medical care can only alleviate some illnesses - there is a lot it cannot do. Pain is only one factor, there can also be nausea, involuntary shaking or muscle movements, constipation, diarrhoea, urinary symptoms, chronic open wounds, discharge, breathlessness, dizziness, anxiety, depression, fatigue, insomnia, dry mouth, dry eyes, loss of appetite, loss of vision, hearing, taste, and smell, skin itching, paralysis, psychosis, dissociation, and dementia. Many of these symptoms can be difficult or impossible to reduce.

Opponents of voluntary euthanasia claim that law reform would reduce the development of treatments to reduce suffering but IMO that is a logical fallacy. All the voluntary euthanasia advocacy groups that I'm aware of support improvements to palliative care, not just for it's own sake, but to assist those who do not wish to end their life. It's about freedom of choice, at the end of the day.
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
How you be sure that his mind is healthy , maybe he just need the correct cure .
I don't agree with right to die , because it's suicide .
That's fine if you don't want to use this right, but why should you be able to deny it to others?
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
How you be sure that his mind is healthy , maybe he just need the correct cure .
I don't agree with right to die , because it's suicide .
I'm not just talking about mentally ill people though. I think anyone for pretty much any reason should be able to die. I fail to understand how suicide is a bad thing that it should be a crime.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Thanks for your input Godobeyer. Is your opinion due to your religious conviction, or just personal? In your opinion is there any situation that would allow for a person choosing to end their life such as terminal illness?
due a religious and opinion .

I think this open a door to people to get rid of their parents when they get ill, or get more sick , and open the door of death, and it's becomes legal to kill patients or old people .
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
due a religious and opinion .

I think this open a door to people to get rid of their parents when they get ill, or get more sick , and open the door of death, and it's becomes legal to kill patients or old people .

I agree. I would never want this to be used as a way to get rid of family that no one wanted to care for.
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
this wording might be unintended and/or controversial...


Just sayin'
I read this as possibly that the person was thinking about older adults who are the majority of people who get terminal illness, and then remembered that sometimes children get terminal illness too. There are now specialist hospices for children in a few places around the world. :(
 

FTNZ

Agnostic Atheist Ex-Christian
due a religious and opinion .

I think this open a door to people to get rid of their parents when they get ill, or get more sick , and open the door of death, and it's becomes legal to kill patients or old people .
That doesn't really address your belief that suicide is inherently wrong, though. Other posts in this thread have pointed out that a system can be developed to reduce the chance of abuse in the way you describe. Currently it is possible for people to kill a patient and get away with it, so it's a very difficult crime to prevent. I argue that this risk should not be used to deny law reform. I would like to know why you believe others should have the right to control whether I live or die.
 
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