Where are you going?

URAVIP2ME said:

What is to misunderstand about Job 14:12-14; Job 33:24-25 ?

What is to misunderstand about Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13 ?

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NONE of those say a BODY rises from the grave, or walks around a city, - like a zombie horror movie!

Yet that is ridiculously what later Christians misinterpreted the Final Judging and rising from Sheol as.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I think if dead people were walking around the city, we would have documentation of such an event, - other then Bible stories.

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URAVIP2ME said:

How does one explain that there are evils in abundance today which could Not be put down to a mere consequence of human sin ?

We are in the ' last days of badness on earth ' by the description found at 2 Timothy 3:1-3; 2 Timothy 3:4-5; 2 Timothy 3:13

Even the types of earthquakes happening today is described by the adjective ' great ' as mentioned at Luke 21:11

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What?

Obviously you haven't read history and what ancient people did to each other.

We have NOT had ANY earthquakes greater then those already having occurred in older human history.

There haven't been any VEI-8 volcanoes in the last 10,000 years.

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URAVIP2ME said:

How does one explain that there are evils in abundance today which could Not be put down to a mere consequence of human sin ?

We are in the ' last days of badness on earth ' by the description found at 2 Timothy 3:1-3; 2 Timothy 3:4-5; 2 Timothy 3:13

Even the types of earthquakes happening today is described by the adjective ' great ' as mentioned at Luke 21:11

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The world in many aspects is actually getting better. Take war for example, the world is significantly safer than it used to be.
What you appear to be describing is a sort of end times doomsaying, which people have been doing for a very long time.

URAVIP2ME said:

What do you call my commentary on the verses I posted if Not commentary ?
What verses all in one post, I'm not following what is meant ?

Yes, quoting the Bible is quoting another person's point of view, and according to Scripture it is: God's point of view - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
Since the Bible has parallel or corresponding cross-reference verses and passages when compared they show the internal harmony among its many writers.

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I understand that. Think of it like this. I am my mother's child and so forth back. Pretend her great grandmother wrote a book about her family and gave it to her to give it to me and you asked about my family. Since I am part of the family, I would not quote just directly from my great grandmother--I am family too. I would also tell you how I see things as they are in sync with how the rest of my family sees things in relation to family (not all of us specific morals etc..but kinship etc).

Im allowed, I guess you can say, to say in my expression my mother on back voice (without claiming to be my mother etc) because I am part of that family.

As a Christian, you are part of the Body/Family of Christ. Its nice to have verses, and when you are explaining something to someone (well you didnt know until I told you, so not blaming you just in general) and they say "can you explain it another way" if its impossible to explain it in your own words--given Paul and John are just as You and Christian Joe than how can we conversate? Reading the Bible I am not conversating with god nor Paul nor Peter. Im just reading their accounts with Christ.

On the other hand, I can actively talk to his followerers. That is very nice to do. Its fine to support what you say in general (in my personal preference, I dont doubt what you say is wrong since Im not Christian and dont care to cross-reference what you say is true unless scriptural debate.) When you do quote, at least one or two lines after comment how the verses apply to what the conversation is about or the point you are making related.

That and I kinda forgot what we were talking about. Why did you quote the verses after my reply? I didnt really make a point; just shared the few verses that stuck out with me. I have to look back more and see what our points where.

URAVIP2ME said:

To which hell are you referring ?_______________ The non-biblical permanent of forever burning, or the temporary biblical hell for the sleeping dead ?

Scripture teaches the day Jesus died that Jesus went to hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Since Jesus taught sleep in death, then Jesus believed that while in the temporary ' Bible's hell ' he would be in a sleeping state - John 11:11-14
Jesus knew about sleep in death because the old Hebrew Scriptures teach sleep in death:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 ; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

The religious-myth teaching of a forever burning hellfire is just that - a religious-myth teaching taught as Scripture but Not what the Scriptures really teach.
KJV translated the word Gehenna into English as hellfire. Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever.
Gehenna stands for destruction, Not forever burning. As in the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
As far as the above mentioned names, they rest in God's hands and we can Not judge their final outcome.

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The hell that us mentioned in the book of Revelations.

InChrist said:

Where do you plan on going?

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I plan to continue my pursuit of the Truth, a Truth which is equivalent with God--whether God is a conscious entity or not.

InChrist said:

I see that according to the biblical scriptures, all people were created for the purpose of being in a relationship of love, unity, and oneness with God the Creator forever. I believe the the eternal relationship of perfect love shared between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is something which God desires to include all His created human beings into. Jesus prayed for this unity and oneness for His disciples ...

If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever he Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.(John 14:19-20).

From my reading and understanding, this oneness with God is the only thing which can truly meet the innermost need of a person and give someone significance and peace now and forever, because again, that is the sole purpose for human creation... to be eternally included within the Love of God.
The biblical message also shows that sin harms and breaks this relationship. Satan, the initiator of sin, who hates God and humanity seems intent on doing all he can, using any method he can to prevent, disrupt, or destroy such relationships of love and unity between created and Creator.
The scriptures reveal that sin brings death and separation from God forever. Satan and the demons will be separated forever. So eternity may be spent in loving relationship with God the only Source of life, love, light and joy or separated in lonely darkness, misery, and rebellion. I see only two eternal options.
Where do you plan on going?

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There are quite a few different versions of heavens/hells saying people will be going to with different conditions/requirements according to quite a few religion/denomination/sect/individual-beliefs.

I don't believe in any of them, so i'm not planning to go to any of their heavens/hells.
This many versions of heaven+hell religions is making the world unpeaceful.

sayak83 said:

The hell that us mentioned in the book of Revelations.

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That would be the temporary Bible's hell or grave mentioned at Revelation 20:13-14 ?
Jesus has the power to later resurrect people out of biblical hell during his coming millennial reign over earth - Revelation 1:18
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Revelation 20:13 mentions the sea gives up its dead ( people who drowned or buried at sea will be resurrected)
Then, it says both death and hell ' delivered up ' the dead which were in them. ' delivered up ' (KJV wording ) as meaning resurrected out of biblical hell.

Revelation 20:14 goes on to say that both death and hell were then cast into the lake of fire. The definition of the lake of fire is ' second death '. - see also Revelation 21:8 B
So, after everyone in biblical hell ( grave) are delivered up ( resurrected out of hell ) then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.

This means that during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth there will be people resurrected back to healthy physical life on earth during Jesus' millennium-long judgement day, and those who choose to act righteously 'after' they are resurrected can gain everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical earth.

Pudding said:

There are quite a few different versions of heavens/hells saying people will be going to with different conditions/requirements according to quite a few religion/denomination/sect/individual-beliefs.
I don't believe in any of them, so i'm not planning to go to any of their heavens/hells.
This many versions of heaven+hell religions is making the world unpeaceful.

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Yes, there are quite a few different versions....
There are the religious-myth versions which are often taught as being Scripture when Not taught in Scripture.
Then, there is the temporary biblical hell where the dead sleep in death until resurrected out of the Bible's hell or grave - Revelation 1:18
Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11:11-14
The day Jesus died Jesus went to biblical hell (the grave) - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
So, since Jesus taught sleep in death, then Jesus believed that while in the ' temporary Bible's hell ' or grave he would be in an unconscious sleep-like state of knowing nothing.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death:
Reference verses such as:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

The Bible does mention some who will be resurrected to heaven as Jesus was - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
However, while Jesus was on earth, he only resurrected people back to healthy physical life on earth.
Those physical resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will do for the majority of mankind during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth.
Most or the majority of mankind will be restored to a happy-and-healthy sound physical resurrection during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth in righteousness.
Then even ' enemy death ' will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Ingledsva said:

NONE of those say a BODY rises from the grave, or walks around a city, - like a zombie horror movie!
Yet that is ridiculously what later Christians misinterpreted the Final Judging and rising from Sheol as.
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I think if dead people were walking around the city, we would have documentation of such an event, - other then Bible stories.
*

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First of all, according to Scripture, Jesus did Not go to heaven the day he died, so the graves that were opened by the quake exposed the dead bodies which came out of the graves.
So, those exposes corpses ( Not zombies ) were exposed due to that earthquake - Matthew 27:52-54
Verse 53 is talking about living people who were among the tombs ' after ' Jesus was resurrected and they entered the city. Those living people were visible to many people.

URAVIP2ME said:

...
However, while Jesus was on earth, he only resurrected people back to healthy physical life on earth.
Those physical resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will do for the majority of mankind during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth.
Most or the majority of mankind will be restored to a happy-and-healthy sound physical resurrection during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth in righteousness.
Then even ' enemy death ' will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

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If you are talking about those whom crawled out of their graves, - This is just a story.

Something like that happening would have been written about by people other then the Bible story authors.

If you mean the stories of his travels. He only brought back to life a few people.

These also - are most likely just stories. However they could also be him just arriving at the right time to perform the ancient version of CPR. It does mention laying on people. Or perhaps administer a plant derived drug.

He was called a Sorcerer, which also implies plant knowledge.

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Aquitaine said:

The world in many aspects is actually getting better. Take war for example, the world is significantly safer than it used to be.
What you appear to be describing is a sort of end times doomsaying, which people have been doing for a very long time.

Click to expand...

In my part of the world ' hackers ' are stealing people's ID's and it has created for them an on-going problem.
Technology gave us atomic energy but also the atomic bomb.
Peace talks have Not stopped more weapons from being produced every day, and which include terrorists-type weapons being used.
Where I have worked, and I now hear about on-going stealing at work places. At one drug store it took two years to finally have enough evidence to press charges.

Isn't it mankind who has the dreaded doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock with its hands set close to striking the dark midnight hour ?________
Whereas Jesus coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth promises to bring Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.
What is doomsaying about Isaiah 2:4 or Micah 4:3-4 ?

Ingledsva said:

If you are talking about those whom crawled out of their graves, - This is just a story.
Something like that happening would have been written about by people other then the Bible story authors.
If you mean the stories of his travels. He only brought back to life a few people.
These also - are most likely just stories. However they could also be him just arriving at the right time to perform the ancient version of CPR. It does mention laying on people. Or perhaps administer a plant derived drug.
He was called a Sorcerer, which also implies plant knowledge.
*

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In Scripture, Jesus' dead friend of 4 days did Not crawl out of his tomb but walked out - John 11:42-44
Yes, Jesus only resurrected some people, and that is because his 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth was Not set to happen in the first century - Luke 19:11-15
Revelation was written for our day or time frame - Revelation 1:10
During Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth is the time for the majority of mankind to have a happy-and-healthy sound physical resurrection on earth.
That is the millennial time when on earth ' enemy death ' will be No more -> 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 35:5-7; Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 22:2

URAVIP2ME said:

First of all, according to Scripture, Jesus did Not go to heaven the day he died, so the graves that were opened by the quake exposed the dead bodies which came out of the graves.
So, those exposes corpses ( Not zombies ) were exposed due to that earthquake - Matthew 27:52-54
Verse 53 is talking about living people who were among the tombs ' after ' Jesus was resurrected and they entered the city. Those living people were visible to many people.

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Baloney!

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose (egiro,)

egeirō


eg-i'-ro


Probably akin to the base of G58 (through the idea of collecting one’s faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), that is, rouse (literally from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence): - awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-) rise (again, up), stand, take up.


Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It very specifically says they rose up from their graves and walked around the city


Mat 27:52 και τα μνημεια ανεωχθησαν και πολλα σωματα των κεκοιμημενων αγιων ηγερθη

Mat 27:53 και εξελθοντες εκ των μνημειων μετα την εγερσιν αυτου εισηλθον εις την αγιαν πολιν και ενεφανισθησαν πολλοις

Mat 27:53 and came forth out of their graves after the resurrection they entered into the holy city and EXHIBITED/showed themselves to many.

I think if dead people were walking around the city, we would have documentation of such an event, - other then Bible stories.

*

At Matthew 27:52-54 it was Not resurrected people who came out of the graves, but exposed dead bodies arose.
When was Jesus resurrected ? _______ Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died. No one was resurrected before Jesus - John 3:13
Jesus was first born from the dead - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23; Colossians 1:18

Who is the ' and ' who came forth but the living people who were at the graves """"AFTER"""" Jesus' resurrection which was Not the day Jesus' died - Matthew 27:53

URAVIP2ME said:

In Scripture, Jesus' dead friend of 4 days did Not crawl out of his tomb but walked out - John 11:42-44
Yes, Jesus only resurrected some people, and that is because his 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth was Not set to happen in the first century - Luke 19:11-15
Revelation was written for our day or time frame - Revelation 1:10
During Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth is the time for the majority of mankind to have a happy-and-healthy sound physical resurrection on earth.
That is the millennial time when on earth ' enemy death ' will be No more -> 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 35:5-7; Revelation 21:4-5; Revelation 22:2

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1. AGAIN - USE THE REPLY BUTTON - it NOTIFIES the person that YOU have REPLIED to them.

2. What is your point? Rich people had tombs, and poor people went into the ground.

This is one of those made-up garbled stories.

It is only two miles between Jerusalem and Bethany.

He might have been between The Jordan and Bethany - about fourteen miles.

It says he lingered only two days while Lazarus was SICK.

Yet the story says Lazarus was dead four days when Jesus arrived.

It took him four days to walk less then fourteen miles?

Someone fouled up the story.

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URAVIP2ME said:

At Matthew 27:52-54 it was Not resurrected people who came out of the graves, but exposed dead bodies arose.
When was Jesus resurrected ? _______ Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died. No one was resurrected before Jesus - John 3:13
Jesus was first born from the dead - 1 Corinthians 15:20; 1 Corinthians 15:23; Colossians 1:18

Who is the ' and ' who came forth but the living people who were at the graves """"AFTER"""" Jesus' resurrection which was Not the day Jesus' died - Matthew 27:53

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Pure bull!

You can see from the Greek that it is the dead that arose - and went into the city and - exhibited - themselves.

The word being translated "resurrection" is actually "egersis" meaning a resurgence. Already set in motion.

And by the way - the word is probably referring to the resurgence/resurrection of those bodies, - not Jesus.

That "his" is also "their."

So, it can be referring to the "resurrection" of Jesus event - as already started.

Or, their resurgence/resurrection.

And of course they could also have meant they came out of their graves, but didn't enter the city until his resurrection.

But whichever you choose, - the Greek tells us it is the dead that arose and went into the city.


*

URAVIP2ME said:

In my part of the world ' hackers ' are stealing people's ID's and it has created for them an on-going problem.
Technology gave us atomic energy but also the atomic bomb.
Peace talks have Not stopped more weapons from being produced every day, and which include terrorists-type weapons being used.
Where I have worked, and I now hear about on-going stealing at work places. At one drug store it took two years to finally have enough evidence to press charges.

Isn't it mankind who has the dreaded doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock with its hands set close to striking the dark midnight hour ?________
Whereas Jesus coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth promises to bring Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.
What is doomsaying about Isaiah 2:4 or Micah 4:3-4 ?

Click to expand...

Roughly 75 years ago, humanity embarked on the most violent war the world has ever seen. An estimated 50-70 million people lost their lives, the battle of Stalingrad claimed over 1 million lives on the Soviet side alone. Millions of Jews an other "undesirables" were systematically murdered on a national level.
Immediately after the war's end, the Cold War began, which at its peak held the world hostage to a potential nuclear war that would surely destroy civilization as it is currently known. That chapter of history is over now, too.

The world is slowly but surely getting better.

Aquitaine said:

The world is slowly but surely getting better.

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This is one of the most

Aquitaine said:

Roughly 75 years ago, humanity embarked on the most violent war the world has ever seen. An estimated 50-70 million people lost their lives, the battle of Stalingrad claimed over 1 million lives on the Soviet side alone. Millions of Jews an other "undesirables" were systematically murdered on a national level.
Immediately after the war's end, the Cold War began, which at its peak held the world hostage to a potential nuclear war that would surely destroy civilization as it is currently known. That chapter of history is over now, too.

The world is slowly but surely getting better.

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This is one of the most deluded things I have ever read and it certainly seems to show a sad lack of awareness concerning the current state of the world. I would comment further, but it would continue to lead off topic. I may start another thread on this subject, just don't have time right now.

URAVIP2ME said:

Yes, there are quite a few different versions....
There are the religious-myth versions which are often taught as being Scripture when Not taught in Scripture.
Then, there is the temporary biblical hell where the dead sleep in death until resurrected out of the Bible's hell or grave - Revelation 1:18
Jesus taught sleep in death - John 11:11-14
The day Jesus died Jesus went to biblical hell (the grave) - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
So, since Jesus taught sleep in death, then Jesus believed that while in the ' temporary Bible's hell ' or grave he would be in an unconscious sleep-like state of knowing nothing.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep in death:
Reference verses such as:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

The Bible does mention some who will be resurrected to heaven as Jesus was - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
However, while Jesus was on earth, he only resurrected people back to healthy physical life on earth.
Those physical resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will do for the majority of mankind during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth.
Most or the majority of mankind will be restored to a happy-and-healthy sound physical resurrection during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth in righteousness.
Then even ' enemy death ' will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Click to expand...

That is all depends on personal interpretations or experience.
Which part of Bible should be read as literal? Which part as metaphor/allegory? Who decide that for all human?
Many religion say that only theirs is the correct one.

Yes, the concept is that if you accept jesus's salvation you can go to heaven. Accept salvation also means you're willing to abide by God's moral/law.
Different religion could have different moral/law which they interpret and they believe they're correct.

Oh, other believer don't follow my religion?
They accept jesus's salvation but their interpretation of God's clear and perfect moral/law is different than my interpretation/version?
They'll go to hell. They deserve it.
Only true believer who follow my true religion/God and the true moral/law deserve of heaven.

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