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What Are the Most Pressing Problems Facing Mystics?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Okay, serious question: What makes one a mystic?
I would say off the top of my head it has to do with one who immerses themselves in the ineffable; body, mind, soul, and spirit, with their entire being. It is the pursuit of Ultimate Knowledge through first the inward journey. They are explorers of the interior. They are explorers of themselves within and the world without through the ever-present and ineffable transcendent reality. Beliefs are mere ornaments they hang on experience to talk about it. It is those who touch the face of the Infinite in themselves and all things.

How's that for an answer? :)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
One of the greatest problems is seeing how you think things just might be but being incapable of describing what you perceive in terms a fence post would understand. Being aware of the difficulties in offering explanations or the inherent quagmire of offering explanations does give one a leg up though. As @Windwalker is quick to suggest the cunning use of common symbolism can be helpful but given the map is never the territory even relying on said symbols is not without its pitfalls.

Another problem is separating ones enthusiasm from reality. We can gush on and on, all the day long, but one does have to keep ones audience in mind. In the end, it doesn't matter how taken with an idea we find ourselves fixating on if that idea lands with an audible thud for those who might be listening.

Okay, serious question: What makes one a mystic?
Being, in touch, with ones larger identity?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Another problem is separating ones enthusiasm from reality. We can gush on and on, all the day long, but one does have to keep ones audience in mind. In the end, it doesn't matter how taken with an idea we find ourselves fixating on if that idea lands with an audible thud for those who might be listening.
All very true. You know one of the funny things is, at least for me at times, is that once you've had some insight, some "revelation", some opening of experience and understanding, you assume everyone is going to get it just like you because you found words that work for explaining it to yourself! We just assume that if we can tell someone something with just the right angle through the mastery of words, then they'll "get it". That's actually a fairly human thing people do. "I see the light, so now will you if I explain it to you!". :)
 

mystic64

nolonger active
I would consider that if you see that, it's really more just simple immaturity in general in the area of growth and development, and not a characteristic of mystics in general. The mystical experience itself can be quite humbling, to say the least. As they say, the more you know, the more you know you don't know.

But to your point if someone is insecure in themselves on a personal level they may seek for validation from others, and if it's lacking they may overcompensate and think of themselves as more enlightened than other mystics, claiming they have the truth!, or that they are the grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic and all others are but junior mystics compared to them, and so forth. All that of course has to do with the ego and not how deep or how far someone goes in mystical states.

How far someone can go in mystical states is not the measure of their maturity as far as ego development, let alone "overcoming" the gravitational force of ego goes. It's kind of like saying that so and so is the greatest athlete in the world, therefore he's the most humble and wise person alive. ;) Does it really mean that? This is actually one of the sneaker and trickier parts of mystical experience you don't mention. The ability to deceive ourselves we have truly grown just because we can enter into the deepest states of meditation for prolonged and sustained periods.

It becomes actually far more insidious, sneakier ego hiding out as we think our "achievements" in mystical experience translates into we have now truly arrived, that we've reached the final layer of that ego-onion we've finally 'overcome'. We confuse development in one area with development in another. In reality, each stage of our growth has its shadow. Each stage has it's potential pathology. To me, it's better to be aware that we never arrive, than to start imagining we are at some imagined level and assume everything else is somehow fixed, that we're now "beyond all that". That's where the beginning of Wisdom finally has a chance with us. :)

"The grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic." Humm :) ? Hi Mr. Windwalker sir, here we go again :) . The question becomes, "How can we turn a discussion between you and I and others (if they wish) into a "classic" example of, "What Are the Most Pressing Problems Facing Mystics?" Sir, I "am" a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic :) . Are you?
 

allfoak

Alchemist
The problem i see as the most prevalent is the loneliness.
I can find communion within but i am also a creature of the earth.

Talking to the average person about these things doesn't usually go very well.
I don't frequent bars or churches because i don't belong in either place.

It is unfortunate but many consider it all foolishness.
And from the perspective of someone who is struggling to feed their children, i would say they are probably right.
It seems the desire is to just be able to share the experiences with others who have had similar experiences.

To learn from one's mistakes is wise.
To learn from others mistakes is wisdom.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sir, I "am" a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic :) . Are you?
:) No. I don't think of the mystical in terms of feats of accomplishments or mastery of levels myself. I look at it in terms of making ourselves whole and just becoming normal. Becoming a grandmaster champion mystic is a somewhat antithetical claim. When we stop trying to climb the ladder is when we find the earth beneath our feet, and the ladder was only in our minds the whole time. Seeing it at other to us is what keeps us from it. There is nothing to achieve. Don't you agree?
 

mystic64

nolonger active
The problem i see as the most prevalent is the loneliness.
I can find communion within but i am also a creature of the earth.

Talking to the average person about these things doesn't usually go very well.
I don't frequent bars or churches because i don't belong in either place.

It is unfortunate but many consider it all foolishness.
And from the perspective of someone who is struggling to feed their children, i would say they are probably right.
It seems the desire is to just be able to share the experiences with others who have had similar experiences.

To learn from one's mistakes is wise.
To learn from others mistakes is wisdom.

Allfoak :) , I really liked what you said!
 

mystic64

nolonger active
:) No. I don't think of the mystical in terms of feats of accomplishments or mastery of levels myself. I look at it in terms of making ourselves whole and just becoming normal. Becoming a grandmaster champion mystic is a somewhat antithetical claim. When we stop trying to climb the ladder is when we find the earth beneath our feet, and the ladder was only in our minds the whole time. Seeing it at other to us is what keeps us from it. There is nothing to achieve. Don't you agree?

Maybe :) ? Maybe not :) ? There is no earth beneath our feet and there is no ladder. Becoming whole and just becoming normal is an illusion. And understanding why there is nothing to achieve Is what makes you a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic.What Are the Most Pressing Problems Facing Mystics? Well, one thing is, other mystics :) ? Who is really a mystic and who is not? Sir, you have in past posts seemed to have made the claim that because you and I disagree on some things that I am not a mystic :) . If I do not have the same experiences as a mystic that you do and come to the same conclusions as you do, I am therefore not a mystic, let alone a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic. My definition of who is a mystic is a very broad definition. There are a lot of folks that are mystics that do not know/realize that they are mystics because they do not fit into the limited definitions that some folks are placing on the validity of who is a mystic and who is not a mystic. Since Sunstone has been attempting to create activity in the mysticism DIR (at least lately) 99% of those that are now participating are mystics whether they seem to be or not. I personally find this exciting and personally think that they should be encouraged to explore this curiosity called the mystic experience. And to me it is about finding common ground to explore things with and not about, "You have to be this or you have to be that or you are not a mystic."

"Don't you agree?" Not really Windwalker sir :) .
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe :) ? Maybe not :) ? There is no earth beneath our feet and there is no ladder. Becoming whole and just becoming normal is an illusion.
I disagree with that. From a nondual perspective there certainly is. This world is real. That we believe that what our limited experience of it is from a dualistic perspective is what real reality is, is the illusion. "If you prick us, do we not bleed?" :)

And understanding why there is nothing to achieve Is what makes you a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic.
I would never accept that, nor ever call myself that. I think "advanced" only applies to the mastery of techniques, not to the mastery of illusions of the ego we create from trying to judge ourselves by these standards. Someone can be a master of sustained states of nondual consciousness, but still stunted at an egotistical stage of growth. There are plenty of examples of this in great "masters" the world over. These are different lines of development. To be a deep mystic doesn't make someone a great person. In many cases, it only reinforces their own self-delusions.

Well, one thing is, other mystics :) ? Who is really a mystic and who is not? Sir, you have in past posts seemed to have made the claim that because you and I disagree on some things that I am not a mystic :) .
Never, ever once have I either thought or suggested that. Is this a piece of projection sandwich going on here? If you thought I was saying that, you were quite wrong. I would only suggest that labeling oneself as a "master" might cause some interference with the goal of overcoming the gravitational pull of the ego-self. It makes me think of what Jesus said to his own ego rising up in the form of temptation to having the whole world as his own, he rebuked that voice saying "get thee behind me Satan". I think it's best not to let the ego pull its habits by making something like mysticism like a ranking degree one hangs on their wall. :)

If I do not have the same experiences as a mystic that you do and come to the same conclusions as you do, I am therefore not a mystic, let alone a grandmaster-level-10 black-belt mystic.
I don't question you have mystical experiences at all. I just think it's a good thing to not look at those as being more "advanced" than others. Someone who has never had even one mystical experience may be considerably more advanced in ego-development than a mystic. When the two develop together, then that's a powerful combination, IMHO.

My definition of who is a mystic is a very broad definition. There are a lot of folks that are mystics that do not know/realize that they are mystics because they do not fit into the limited definitions that some folks are placing on the validity of who is a mystic and who is not a mystic.
I completely agree. In fact, the term "mystic" applied to me was something a good friend said I was when I was once upon a time searching for a 'label' to call myself, where I fit into things. I had never thought to call myself that, but it works because it transcends beliefs into direct experience. A mystic is one who finds "God" beyond religions, even though they may self-identify as a "Christian", a "Muslim", a "Theist", or an "Atheist". The mystic is one who sees those as simply a set of eyes to look at what lays beyond them, rather than the set of eyes they see themselves, others, and God through. I see it as Meister Eckhart does, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love". That's why I'm called a mystic, and why I accept the term.

Since Sunstone has been attempting to create activity in the mysticism DIR (at least lately) 99% of those that are now participating are mystics whether they seem to be or not. I personally find this exciting and personally think that they should be encouraged to explore this curiosity called the mystic experience. And to me it is about finding common ground to explore things with and not about, "You have to be this or you have to be that or you are not a mystic."
I completely agree. I think exposing people to the fact that the mystical transcends all human beliefs and standards is helpful.

"Don't you agree?" Not really Windwalker sir :) .
Apparently you do.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I would say off the top of my head it has to do with one who immerses themselves in the ineffable; body, mind, soul, and spirit, with their entire being. It is the pursuit of Ultimate Knowledge through first the inward journey. They are explorers of the interior. They are explorers of themselves within and the world without through the ever-present and ineffable transcendent reality. Beliefs are mere ornaments they hang on experience to talk about it. It is those who touch the face of the Infinite in themselves and all things.

How's that for an answer? :)
One of the greatest problems is seeing how you think things just might be but being incapable of describing what you perceive in terms a fence post would understand. Being aware of the difficulties in offering explanations or the inherent quagmire of offering explanations does give one a leg up though. As @Windwalker is quick to suggest the cunning use of common symbolism can be helpful but given the map is never the territory even relying on said symbols is not without its pitfalls.

Another problem is separating ones enthusiasm from reality. We can gush on and on, all the day long, but one does have to keep ones audience in mind. In the end, it doesn't matter how taken with an idea we find ourselves fixating on if that idea lands with an audible thud for those who might be listening.

Being, in touch, with ones larger identity?
I'd say this is a pretty darned good description! Know thyself. Or at least know that you don't know all there is to know about yourself.


Well according to this information I would qualify as a mystic. And all this time I thought I was just weird...and proud of it. Thanks for the comeback.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Well according to this information I would qualify as a mystic. And all this time I thought I was just weird...and proud of it. Thanks for the comeback.

When I said that 99% of the folks that are participating in this DIR (at least lately) are mystics even if they aren't aware of it, I was thinking of you :) !
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
When I said that 99% of the folks that are participating in this DIR (at least lately) are mystics even if they aren't aware of it, I was thinking of you :) !
There's the rub though, mystic64. All human animals have a mystical element to their persona. Recognizing that helps tremendously. Heck, even my little fawns who drop by for apple bits have a mystical element to them. In my opinion, the problems arise when we deny this odd aspect of our being and all sorts of confusion ensues.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There's the rub though, mystic64. All human animals have a mystical element to their persona. Recognizing that helps tremendously. Heck, even my little fawns who drop by for apple bits have a mystical element to them. In my opinion, the problems arise when we deny this odd aspect of our being and all sorts of confusion ensues.
Put another way, we're all already fully enlightened. However, most of just aren't enlightened to the truth of that.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Windwalker said:
I completely agree. In fact, the term "mystic" applied to me was something a good friend said I was when I was once upon a time searching for a 'label' to call myself, where I fit into things. I had never thought to call myself that, but it works because it transcends beliefs into direct experience. A mystic is one who finds "God" beyond religions, even though they may self-identify as a "Christian", a "Muslim", a "Theist", or an "Atheist". The mystic is one who sees those as simply a set of eyes to look at what lays beyond them, rather than the set of eyes they see themselves, others, and God through. I see it as Meister Eckhart does, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love". That's why I'm called a mystic, and why I accept the term.

The above I completely agree with. And yes the physical is real, but the psychological is illusion. As a mystic you are still functioning at the level where the psychological is real. "And a mystic is anyone who has a functional connection to the "Intuitive Mind" :) ." quote, "mystic 64", 2016. From there the answers/information received depends on how you form your questions. Different questions result in different answers. And one's personality programming that lies in the subconscious mind/the automated part of the mind can have a strong effect on how one forms those questions because the answer has to fit into the framework of one's personality programming (Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the prettest of them all?). Information that comes from somewhere or something that is beyond us is what makes us a mystic. If we are religious that information that comes from beyond us is called God. Or some other Divine name or in some cases some not so Divine name :) . There are Dark Mystics :) .


That brings us back to the question:
What Are the Most Pressing Problems Facing Mystics?
Discussion in 'Mysticism DIR' started by Sunstone, Tuesday at 9:52 AM.

And one of those most pressing problems is, "Understanding what one is playing with as a mystic and how to manipulate and control it." The Intuitive Mind is like a genie that can be let out of a bottle and mystics are folks that have let this genie out of the bottle (sometimes without realizing or understanding what happened :) ) and from there they are playing with it. At least until it scares them half to death and they quit doing it :) . Because the Intuitive Mind can bite, after all it is like a genie. And dark mystics use it to bite others.

The mysticism DIR, only mystics are welcome. It is a safe place for mystics to hang out and discuss things. But dark mystics are mystics also :) . I love that part! And they can walk the walk and talk the talk because they are mystics and if they are gifted, a safe place becomes something else. A gifted dark mystic creates a psychological environment where nobdody really knows what is happening, all they know is that they no longer want to be here. Gifted Dark Mystics are also one of the most pressing problems facing the average mystic :) .
 
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