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Do Religions Suppress the Mystical in Favor of the Merely Religious?

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think this question merits a simple "yes" or "no" answer.

Certain forms of religion, say fundamentalist Sunni Islam or Evangelical Christianity, seem to be particularly antithetical to the claims and experiences of mystics. Other variants, such as Sufi Islam and Quaker Christianity, are entirely mystical by their very nature. In between these two extremes, I find a wide "grey" area in terms of the compatibility between orthodox doctrine and contemplative experience.

With reference to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, mysticism has always had a "safe" haven through the institution of monasticism. The life of a cloistered monk or nun is geared towards mystical union with God and perfection of the soul, hence why they remove themselves from all the fetters and temptations of life in the world, to focus solely upon a life in the Holy Spirit, a life of contemplative prayer and interior recollection.

In making the monastic life open to everyone who desired it, Catholicism always left room for the mystic to pursue his or her own path. This became even more the case from the 13th century onwards, when St. Francis and St. Dominic founded Mendicant Orders that were active in the world, rather than cloistered, and explicitly oriented towards a pragmatic but intensely mystical approach to Christian living.

While there have been historical cases - such as the tragic execution of Marguerite Porete - in which mystics have come into conflict with the Church hierarchy, the Church has actually been pretty flexible when it comes to recognizing the claims of mystics to divine illumination.

A paradigmatic example that I always enjoy citing is that of St. Catherine of Genoa, a 15th century married laywoman who had a profoundly life-altering mystical experience that directly contributed too and developed the Church's doctrine of purgatory:


"Dear friends, in their experience of union with God, Saints attain such a profound knowledge of the divine mysteries in which love and knowledge interpenetrate, that they are of help to theologians themselves in their commitment to study, to intelligentia fidei, to an intelligentia of the mysteries of faith, to attain a really deeper knowledge of the mysteries of faith, for example, of what purgatory is. With her life St Catherine teaches us that the more we love God and enter into intimacy with him in prayer the more he makes himself known to us, setting our hearts on fire with his love. In writing about purgatory, the Saint reminds us of a fundamental truth of faith that becomes for us an invitation to pray for the deceased so that they may attain the beatific vision of God in the Communion of Saints (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 1032)."
  • Pope Benedict XVI, General Audience Address, 12 January 2011
Catherine's claims of union with God were very bold. She claimed complete identity with the deity, to such an extent that her own individual personality had been "absorbed" and "annihilated". And yet she was never treated as a heretic, quite the contrary she was canonized and her mystical experience fed into dogma:


"Some of the mo[st] daring statements [are] of another Catherine who has been canonized by the Church—Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510). Among the autotheistic sayings of this mystic are the following: "My me is God, nor do I recognize any other me except my God Himself," and "My being is God, not by some simple participation but by a true transformation of my being."...Catherine of Genoa was canonized a saint even though she uttered the bold claim "My me is God"?"
  • James A. Wisemann, O.S.B. (1990), The Autotheistic sayings of the Mystics
Here is a link to some of her "provocative" mystical statements:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Genoa

She was recognised as impeccably orthodox in character. So within Catholicism, I would say that there is a wide scope for mystical claims to be made without breaching the boundaries of doctrine.

 
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mystic64

nolonger active
Not only do religions suppress mysticism, but so does atheism, by insisting on mysticism being a "union with god" instead of the breaking through to and/or accessing other levels of consciousness--bringing unconscious processes into consciousness. Perhaps that is due to substance-based thinking rather than process-based thinking?

Your post #16 shows a very advanced understanding of the higher levels of the mystic experience. Crossfire, you are not just another pretty face :) .
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
As others have noted, suppression varies by religion. Sufis in Islamic countries could and were murdered for heresy and even today are attacked by fanatics. In Turkey, sufi orders were suppressed. Even when not formally suppressed, esoteric groups often could not speak directly about their experiences but had to use metaphors and other coded language. Partly I think that's why esotericism is often couched in exoteric religious terms.

There are a couple of human tendencies at play. One is "because I don't understand you, you're wrong (and perhaps evil).

A second comes into play if someone tries to judge if another person's statements are true, deluded or spoken from negative intent. The later comes into play when someone claims to be a teacher who has achieved a certain state. How do you know if the person is a hypocrite or deluded or not? On a societal level, this can lead to suppression.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Also agree it varies by religion. I remember being 'enlightened' to learn that many world religions have a mystical sect within them. That these aren't well known, is fascinating, and probably better that way.

Religions seem to depend a lot on hierarchy and propriety to continue on as something people can comprehend and decide to become a follower of. But when constantly preaching / teaching a message regarding something beyond physical existence, a door is being open to not follow in any human tradition, nor dare call someone on earth your 'superior' or 'father.' A religion that would dissuade its own followers from that type of realization and instead insist on calling that heresy is a) prone to blasphemy (perhaps daily) and b) the type of religion that I couldn't run fast enough to get away from.

I thoroughly enjoy violating propriety.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
As others have noted, suppression varies by religion. Sufis in Islamic countries could and were murdered for heresy and even today are attacked by fanatics. In Turkey, sufi orders were suppressed. Even when not formally suppressed, esoteric groups often could not speak directly about their experiences but had to use metaphors and other coded language. Partly I think that's why esotericism is often couched in exoteric religious terms.

There are a couple of human tendencies at play. One is "because I don't understand you, you're wrong (and perhaps evil).

A second comes into play if someone tries to judge if another person's statements are true, deluded or spoken from negative intent. The later comes into play when someone claims to be a teacher who has achieved a certain state. How do you know if the person is a hypocrite or deluded or not? On a societal level, this can lead to suppression.

Sunrise, you bring up and intersting point :) , "When someone claims to be a teacher who has achieved a certain state. How do you know if the person is a hypocrite or deluded or not?" Or self serving. Actually Sunrise, you bring up two interesting points :) but the second one is a "kicker". How do you know? If you are a normal person and they are half way good at what they are doing, you can't know :) . As far as I am concerned all those who claim to be teachers that have achieved a certain state are dangerous :) until proven otherwise over time. And, they are to be approached with caution.
 

mystic64

nolonger active
Hear! Hear!

Why do you think that I quit being a teacher/guru with an international following :) ? Utimately it becomes a war with normal folks caught in the middle and that is a game that I do not want to play. So my meassage now is, "Approach those suckers with caution! Because, I use to be one of them :) .
 
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Acim

Revelation all the time
Sunrise, you bring up and intersting point :) , "When someone claims to be a teacher who has achieved a certain state. How do you know if the person is a hypocrite or deluded or not?" Or self serving. Actually Sunrise, you bring up two interesting points :) but the second one is a "kicker". How do you know? If you are a normal person and they are half way good at what they are doing, you can't know :) . As far as I am concerned all those who claim to be teachers that have achieved a certain state are dangerous :) until proven otherwise over time. And, they are to be approached with caution.

I agree with this except for the part I highlighted. Don't feel right now like writing long winded post and sound bite version may not do it justice, but I'm always very intrigued when someone claims something about another that is not seen as true for them. Such as 'they are enlightened.' Could be as simple as 'they are intelligent.' To understand (or know) this, one would have to understand it within themselves. Seems obvious point, but IMO, it makes more sense when you witness to it occurring with anyone. Or put another way, seems obvious the guru is within.
 
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