I have trouble understanding the Trinity

The trinity idea was carried over from the pagan Babylonian mystery religion. Have you noticed that the Catholic churchtalks about a lot of mysteries? That is because much of their religion is based on those pagen ideas. The Babylonian religion had a trinty and it had nothing to do with God or Jesus but the idea was carried over to the modern religion.

lostwanderingsoul said:

The trinity idea was carried over from the pagan Babylonian mystery religion. Have you noticed that the Catholic churchtalks about a lot of mysteries? That is because much of their religion is based on those pagen ideas. The Babylonian religion had a trinty and it had nothing to do with God or Jesus but the idea was carried over to the modern religion.

Click to expand...

Actually, the concept of "mystery" is used frequently throughout the Bible. Just check out all the times it shows up in the NIV: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=mystery&qs_version=NIV
In Greek, mysterion refers to something which we cannot fully comprehend--God's love for us, His salvation, His nature, the mercy and grace that He bestows on us, are all mysteries. You can also see Strong's Concordance to see where this Greek word shows up. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=KJV&strongs=G3466

Don't you think if God created a church He would help people understand these things? God would not leave people following His true religion to lack understanding.

kaoticprofit said:

The Trinity doctrine is one the Catholics came up with and one the Protestants have accepted. How can anyone say the trinity is presented throughout scripture when even the trinitarians will tell you that it's NOT plainly stated in any ONE scripture verse!
People believe in a fictional Trinity because that's what they've been taught, and haven't done their own unbiased homework on the subject.
The words of Jesus alone DEBUNK the trinity! It really is that simple!

I would like to ask InChrist,

Why does the 'holy ghost' have no name? Why isn't the 'holy Ghost' NOT FOUND in or around the Throne of God? Why would Jesus say God is greater? why would Jesus say he doesn't know the day or hour of his return...BUT ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS?

Why would Jesus say the servant (Jesus) is not greater than the One who sent him?

Click to expand...

I don't believe the doctrine of the Trinity was something the Catholic Church came up with, nor is it a fictional teaching, but rather is derived from the revelation God gives of Himself in the pages of the scriptures.


There are names given in the scriptures ...Spirit (Romans 8:26-27: 1 Corinthians 12:7-11), Comforter or Helper(,John 14:16, 26;15:26) ,Spirit of truth (John 14:17;16:13), Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13; John 1:33;Acts 2:4; 1 Corinthians 2:13; 12:3; Eph. 4:30), God (Acts 5:3-4) Are these not names which are acceptable to you?
The Holy Spirit is certainly around the Throne of God. Do you really not see that when you read the scriptures in Revelation?
Have you actually read the scriptures and understood the purpose and mission of the Son of God's life on earth? How can you ask questions such as , why He would call His Father greater or say only His Father knows the day or the hour? Did you not notice that the Son became flesh and subjected Himself to the human state and condition?

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/january-2014-in-defense

URAVIP2ME said:

How is the word ' us ' at Genesis 1:26 meaning three ?]

Click to expand...

The "us" in Genesis may not specifically indicate three, but it certainly indicates plurality and elsewhere in the scriptures the three Persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are revealed.

"The very first verse in the Bible presents God as a plural being: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” If God were a single personage, then the singular word for God, Eloah, would be used. Instead of the singular form, however, the plural, Elohim, which literally means Gods, is used. Yet a singular verb, bara, is used with Elohim. This plural noun (Elohim) is used for God more than 2500 times in the Old Testament and almost always with a singular verb, thus indicating both unity and diversity and both singularity and plurality in the God of the Bible. It was Elohim (Gods) who later in this first chapter of Genesis said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (verse 26)." https://www.thebereancall.org/content/january-2014-in-defense

URAVIP2ME said:

What does Philippians 2:9 mean ?

What does John 6:38 mean ?

What does John 10:29 A mean ?

What does John 14:28 mean ?

What does John mean at Revelation 3:12 ?

Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

All of the above verses mean that the Son of God emptied Himself and became flesh (Son of man), lowered Himself to the position of a human, humbled Himself completely submitting to His Father as God from the place of humanity for our sake as the scriptures affirm.

lostwanderingsoul said:

Don't you think if God created a church He would help people understand these things? God would not leave people following His true religion to lack understanding.

Click to expand...

God does help anyone who seeks understanding to understand these things through the reading of His word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

lostwanderingsoul said:

The trinity idea was carried over from the pagan Babylonian mystery religion. Have you noticed that the Catholic churchtalks about a lot of mysteries? That is because much of their religion is based on those pagen ideas. The Babylonian religion had a trinty and it had nothing to do with God or Jesus but the idea was carried over to the modern religion.

Click to expand...

The Babylonian mystery religion may have had an imitation of the Trinity simply because Satan likes to corrupt and distract people with imitations of God's truth. Haven't you noticed that?

lostwanderingsoul said:

The Bible says those who are "born again" will be composed of spirit instead of flesh and blood and will be invivible like the wind. So I would like to ask InChrist when and how he was born again and if he is now a spirit like the wind. Or maybe he needs to study some more and find out what the Bible really says about being born again.

Click to expand...

I see no indication in Bible that one who is born again becomes composed of spirit and not flesh and blood or invisible like the wind. The scriptures indicate that when one places their faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness and salvation then an invisible work of the Holy Spirit occurs transforming one's life and giving them a new spiritual nature.

"As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “‘I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again”’” (John 3:3-7).

The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above." Nicodemus had a real need. He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation. New birth, being born again, is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the person who believes (2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-4, 18). John 1:12, 13 indicates that being "born again" also carries the idea of "becoming children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ."
http://www.gotquestions.org/born-again.html

If God is Love, as the scriptures say, then logically God must be a plurality and I think the pages of the Bible reveal His triunity...

'That God must have both unity and diversity is clear. The Allah of Islam, or the Jehovah of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jews, or the God of unitarian “Christian” groups would be incomplete in Himself. He would be unable to love, commune, or fellowship before creating other beings capable of interacting with Him in these ways. The quality of love and the capacities for fellowship and communion, by their very nature, require another personal being with which to share them. And God could not fully share Himself except with another Being equal to Him. Yet the Bible says that “God is love” in Himself alone. This could only be true if God himself consisted of a plurality of Beings who were separate and distinct, yet one.

Although the actual word “Trinity” does not occur in the Bible, the concept is clearly expressed there. The Bible presents a God who did not need to create any beings to experience love, communion, and fellowship. This God is complete in Himself, existing eternally in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, individually distinct from each other yet at the same time eternally one. These three loved, communed, fellowshiped, and took counsel together before the universe, angels, or man were brought into existence."

https://www.thebereancall.org/content/january-2014-in-defense

You say the Babylonian religion had an imitation of the trinity but maybe the Christian belief was the imitation because the Babylonian religion came first and Satan used those pagan ideas to deceive the so called Christians into following pagan beliefs. Also you quote John 3 (3-7) about being born again but you must continue into verse 8. Jesus explains that you cannot see the wind when it blows and that people who are born again will be like that (invisible) So if I can see you maybe you are not really born again but have again been deceived by Satan.

lostwanderingsoul said:

You say the Babylonian religion had an imitation of the trinity but maybe the Christian belief was the imitation because the Babylonian religion came first and Satan used those pagan ideas to deceive the so called Christians into following pagan beliefs. Also you quote John 3 (3-7) about being born again but you must continue into verse 8. Jesus explains that you cannot see the wind when it blows and that people who are born again will be like that (invisible) So if I can see you maybe you are not really born again but have again been deceived by Satan.

Click to expand...

Satan is all about imitation and deception concerning the truths of God. He was certainly around with his schemes and tactics before the Babylonian religion came into being. So my view is that this religion, its practices and ideas, including a twisted slant on the nature of God with a false, imitation trinity were inspired by Satan first well before Babylon existed. Have you not read and seen the false trinity Satan sets up at the end of the age in an attempt to replace the true Triune God; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit with himself (the dragon) as God , a human world ruler (the beast) instead of Jesus the Son, and a world spiritual leader (false prophet) in place of the Holy Spirit?

... And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. Revelation 16:32

As far as my born again status is concerned, I trust that to my God and Savior Jesus Christ and rest in His judgment of my life for today and eternity.

The Bible does not teach that God is made up of three persons. The "Holy Spirit" is the spirit of the Father and not a separate "person".There Is the Heavenly Father and Jesus. God is a spirit and He is holy so He is the Holy Spirit. Also the idea that God is three "persons" forever limits Him to those three. But God is adopting sons who will be co-heirs with Jesus. God will then consist of far more than three persons. God will be the Father and Jesus and all the many adopted sons. Satan invented the idea of a trinity to forever limit God to three persons and prevent people from seeing His true nature.
As far as born again goes, I can only go by what I see and that is that those who are born again will be spirits - not flesh and blood. People are born physically and die physically. Then Jesus will return and people will be born spiritually and will be spirits. Again Satan has hidden this from most people.

lostwanderingsoul said:

The Bible does not teach that God is made up of three persons. The "Holy Spirit" is the spirit of the Father and not a separate "person".There Is the Heavenly Father and Jesus. God is a spirit and He is holy so He is the Holy Spirit. Also the idea that God is three "persons" forever limits Him to those three. But God is adopting sons who will be co-heirs with Jesus. God will then consist of far more than three persons. God will be the Father and Jesus and all the many adopted sons. Satan invented the idea of a trinity to forever limit God to three persons and prevent people from seeing His true nature.
As far as born again goes, I can only go by what I see and that is that those who are born again will be spirits - not flesh and blood. People are born physically and die physically. Then Jesus will return and people will be born spiritually and will be spirits. Again Satan has hidden this from most people.

Click to expand...

I believe the Bible does reveal that the One Eternal God is comprised of three Persons and the scriptures definitely show the Holy Spirit as having Personhood as opposed to being merely a force, energy, or spirit of the Father. If the scriptures reveal the three Persons of the Godhead then this by no means limits God. If you look at this universe He has created His trunity fingerprints are all over it.
I think though that if you believe humans will become like God or God will consist of humans in the future you are believing the lie of the devil which has continued from the beginning when he said, 'You will be like God" The scripture do say believers will be co-heirs with Jesus, will receive new exalted, eternal bodies, and will inherit eternal lifebut no where ever in the scriptures are humans said to become God or ever have the God essence and nature that He alone possesses.

What kind of spiritual books or information besides the Bible do you read? Are you a part of any church or religious group? Just interested, it is up to you if you feel like answering.

I would be interested in any scriptures you can give that tell how and when people are born again. Also any scriptures that say anyone has gone or will go to Heaven. I claim no particular religion because when I read the Bible I see things that are not taught by the world's religions.Most of the modern religions have beliefs that come from pagan religions from before the time of Christ. If you can show me different I will gladly consider it.

lostwanderingsoul said:

I would be interested in any scriptures you can give that tell how and when people are born again. Also any scriptures that say anyone has gone or will go to Heaven. I claim no particular religion because when I read the Bible I see things that are not taught by the world's religions.Most of the modern religions have beliefs that come from pagan religions from before the time of Christ. If you can show me different I will gladly consider it.

Click to expand...

Who goes to heaven -> Revelation 20:6
Those called to heaven are the ones who have a first or earlier resurrection before anyone else. - See also John 3:13
The heavens were opened up to Jesus at his baptism - Matthew 3:16; Mark 1:10-11; Luke 3:21-22
So, those called to reign in heaven with Christ know that heavenly calling at their baptism - Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
The majority of mankind are promised a happy-and-healthy physical eternal life right here on earth starting with Jesus' coming 1,000-year rulership over earth.
- Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22; Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah chapter 35; 1 Corinthians 15:26

Yes, the world's religions can trace their religious family tree roots back to pagan ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated out of ancient Babylon they took with them their religious-myth ideas and practices and spread them into a greater religious Babylon, or Babylon the Great.
That is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious-myth practices and ideas spread throughout the world's religious groups.

InChrist said:

The "us" in Genesis may not specifically indicate three, but it certainly indicates plurality and elsewhere in the scriptures the three Persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are revealed.
"The very first verse in the Bible presents God as a plural being: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” If God were a single personage, then the singular word for God, Eloah, would be used. Instead of the singular form, however, the plural, Elohim, which literally means Gods, is used. Yet a singular verb, bara, is used with Elohim. This plural noun (Elohim) is used for God more than 2500 times in the Old Testament and almost always with a singular verb, thus indicating both unity and diversity and both singularity and plurality in the God of the Bible. It was Elohim (Gods) who later in this first chapter of Genesis said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” (verse 26)."

Click to expand...

All of the above verses mean that the Son of God emptied Himself and became flesh (Son of man), lowered Himself to the position of a human, humbled Himself completely submitting to His Father as God from the place of humanity for our sake as the scriptures affirm.[/QUOTE]

Agree, the "us" may not specifically indicate three.
What capitalize God's spirit when in the ancient manuscripts it isn't ?
According to Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 God's spirit is: neuter. Neuter as the word "it" is used.
In the old King James at Romans 8:16; Romans 8:26 God's spirit is in the neuter as " itself"
God and Jesus are always in the masculine.
Greek grammar rules allow for a neuter to have a gender while remaining a: neuter.
In English also we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' although remaining a neuter "it".
God sent forth His spirit - Psalms 104:30; Psalms 143:10; Psalms 51:11; Psalms 33:6

God and Lord are titles Not personal names.
In the King James there are two (2) LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalms 110:1
The LORD in all upper-case letters is where the Tetragrammaton stands. The other Lord is Lord Jesus and the Tetragrammaton is never used in connection to Jesus.
Doesn't the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still think he has a God over him ? _______- Revelation 3:12
How many thrones are mentioned at Revelation 3:21 ?_______

According to Psalms 90:2 only God was 'before' the beginning.
The pre-human Jesus was Not 'before' the beginning as God was 'before' the beginning.
Wasn't the pre-human Jesus - Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B - the beginning of the creation by God ?_______

What does Philippians 2:9 say ?
What does John 6:38 say about Jesus?

Looking at some of the verses mentioned in post 95. Revelation 2:10 and 20:6 do not mention Heaven. Verse 5:9-10 talks about people reigning with Jesus on earth. John 3:13 specifically says that no man has ascended into Heaven. So I still do not see anything that says anyone has already or will someday go to Heaven. So for the question of who goes to Heaven, none of these verses says anything about people going to Heaven . Only Jesus who came down from Heaven has been there. Please find more verses or explain why these verses do not mean what they say.

lostwanderingsoul said:

I would be interested in any scriptures you can give that tell how and when people are born again.

Click to expand...

The phrase "born again" literally means "born from above." Nicodemus (John 3) had a real need, He needed a change of his heart—a spiritual transformation, as does each person. New birth or being born again, is an act of God whereby new spiritual and eternal life is imparted to the person who believes and places their faith in Jesus Christ for forgiveness and eternal life (2 Corinthians 5:17;Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:29;3:9;4:7;5:1-4,18). And John 1:12-13 indicates that being "born again" also includes the idea of "becoming children of God" through trust in the name of Jesus Christ.
The epistles inspired by God and given to the early churches by the apostles were filled with reminders, admonitions ,and encouragements to those first Christians to turn from their old sinful ways and instead walk in godliness and live out their new born again life in Christ. These same scriptures have continued to instruct, inspire, and encourage born again believers throughout history even to the present.

lostwanderingsoul said:

Also any scriptures that say anyone has gone or will go to Heaven.

Click to expand...

For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thess. 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified, incorruptible bodies. So according to the scriptures while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ in heaven immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This is the first resurrection which includes all believers who have trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation and received eternal life over which death has no power. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will then be the possession of believers for the I000 year reign of Christ on earth (Rev. 20:5,6) and for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation Chapters .21-22).

Again none of these verses say anyone has gone or will go to Heaven. John 3:13 says no man has ascended into Heaven. @ COR 5: 6-8 says if you are physically alive in your body then you are absent from the Lord. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that the dead do not know anything.Surely if souls went to Heaven they would be aware of what was going on. So there is still no verse that says when or how a person is born again or that anyone is in Heaven. It is just the opposite, If you are alive in your body you are not born again and dead people are not aware of what is going on. Any other interpretation is just putting your own ideas into it. And Satan is very good at putting ideas in people's minds.