concept of God in Cristianity

Hi Every one

Before we discuss the Concept of God in Cristianity let us Examine the

Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:

(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).

(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).

(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.

(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.

(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.

CONCEPT OF GOD IN CHRISTIANITY

1. Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

One may ask, if both Muslims and Christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major difference between Islam and Christianity is the Christians’ insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ (pbuh). A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):

(i) "My Father is greater than I." [The Bible, John 14:28]

(ii) "My Father is greater than all." [The Bible, John 10:29]

(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…." [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [The Bible, John 5:30]

2. The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law

Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]

4. Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]

Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

God is One

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad". It is a Hebrew quotation which means: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]

"I am Lord, and there is none else, there is no God besides me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 45:5]

"I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me."
[The Bible, Isaiah 46:9]

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord." [The Bible, Mark 12:29]

Hello there.

You seem to be ignoring John 14:5-11, where he clearly says that he is one with God.

"5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves."

So no, he didn't always refute his divinity. That said I agree with you about the differences between much Christian dogma and the teachings of Jesus.

Ali Ansari said:

Position of Jesus (pbuh) in Islam:

(i) Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).

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fwiw, this is incorrect. Baha'is also have this belief in Jesus, and the same one of Muhammad (pbuh). No Baha'i is a Baha'i unless they also believe in Jesus and Muhammad as Messengers of God.

(ii) We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).

(iii) We believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.

(iv) We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

(v) We believe that he gave life to the dead with God’s permission.

(iv) We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God’s permission.

Click to expand...

Baha'is believe in all this also.

I will leave it to Christians to respond to the verses you presented. As my reading of those verses is the same as yours, I would not be in any position to take up their case effectively.

Raguel said:

Hello there.

You seem to be ignoring John 14:5-11, where he clearly says that he is one with God.

"5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves."

So no, he didn't always refute his divinity. That said I agree with you about the differences between much Christian dogma and the teachings of Jesus.

Click to expand...

I could give some alternate understandings of these verses, but I will leave it to the originator of the thread to do so.

For now I'll just say that the relationship between Jesus and God can be somewhat paradoxical, and that's where we finite humans can get confused sometimes.

Whyizzit most of the muslims on this site feel that it is their bounden duty to constantly debunk Christianity and the divinity of Christ??? It's bad form, boys and girls! What if people started drawing cartoons of a certain someone?

remember that time on CC when they wouldnt show mohammed but then had shown Christ.

listen, i respect your oppinion but the bible does state thet Christ was God. as in john that user above stated.

i like the fact that you respect Christ, in similar ways i respect mohammed.

Ali, From what I have understood, since being here, is that the Jesus of Islam is totally different from the Jesus of Christianity.

I won't try to tell you that your understanding of Jesus is wrong, as long as you don't tell me that the way I perceive Jesus is wrong............

Thought I'd add this:

Matthew 16:13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.

Jesus agrees with Peter that he is "The Christ, the son of the living God." Also, more subtly, notice that Jesus says "and on this rock I will build my chuch". It's very subtle, but he says "MY church" which would imply divinity.

Anyway, wecome to the forum. There are a lot of differing opinions here. I hope you enjoy the debates and discussions.

Hello,
I'm constantly praying that someday everyone in the world comes to understand that God, or Allah, or Buddah, or whatever people call our creator,is EVERYONE's God. He belongs to no single person, no single religion.
People, humans, wrote all the scriptures in the entire world and everyone thinks theirs is the only correct one...


The are all correct.:yes:

If anyone would dare to care enough to investigate all the different religions then you would see there are many similarities. And the differences are not that great. The differences dont even matter.

Do you honestly believe that the infinate Creator of this entire Universe cares if we swear, or cares if we miss church? Or cares if we build huge buildings or meet in humble shacks?

What or loving God cares about is how we humans treat each other. What? God the creator saw you in blue jeans??? He only cares about the love we have in our hearts.

Humankind will only advance spiritually when us humans (and others) recognize that Earth is a school, to learn how to grow in love, compassion and tolerance and understanding.


Please every child of our Infinate Creator... don't accept just your beliefs without question, as God is like a magnificent prism, with many brilliant sides to Him. Learn tolerance and acceptance, study other faiths while remaining openminded to the realization that we are truly ALL His children.

In Love and Light...
Reticuli :yoda:

Hello,
I'm constantly praying that someday everyone in the world comes to understand that God, or Allah, or Buddah, or whatever people call our creator,is EVERYONE's God. He belongs to no single person, no single religion.
People, humans, wrote all the scriptures in the entire world and everyone thinks theirs is the only correct one...


The are all correct.:yes:

If anyone would dare to care enough to investigate all the different religions then you would see there are many similarities. And the differences are not that great. The differences dont even matter.

Do you honestly believe that the infinate Creator of this entire Universe cares if we swear, or cares if we miss church? Or cares if we build huge buildings or meet in humble shacks?

What or loving God cares about is how we humans treat each other. What? God the creator saw you in blue jeans??? He only cares about the love we have in our hearts.

Humankind will only advance spiritually when us humans (and others) recognize that Earth is a school, to learn how to grow in love, compassion and tolerance and understanding.


Please every child of our Infinate Creator... don't accept just your beliefs without question, as God is like a magnificent prism, with many brilliant sides to Him. Learn tolerance and acceptance, study other faiths while remaining openminded to the realization that we are truly ALL His children.

In Love and Light...
Reticuli :yoda:

Hello,
I'm constantly praying that someday everyone in the world comes to understand that God, or Allah, or Buddah, or whatever people call our creator,is EVERYONE's God. He belongs to no single person, no single religion.
People, humans, wrote all the scriptures in the entire world and everyone thinks theirs is the only correct one...


The are all correct.:yes:

If anyone would dare to care enough to investigate all the different religions then you would see there are many similarities. And the differences are not that great. The differences dont even matter.

Do you honestly believe that the infinate Creator of this entire Universe cares if we swear, or cares if we miss church? Or cares if we build huge buildings or meet in humble shacks?

What or loving God cares about is how we humans treat each other. What? God the creator saw you in blue jeans??? He only cares about the love we have in our hearts.

Humankind will only advance spiritually when us humans (and others) recognize that Earth is a school, to learn how to grow in love, compassion and tolerance and understanding.


Please every child of our Infinate Creator... don't accept just your beliefs without question, as God is like a magnificent prism, with many brilliant sides to Him. Learn tolerance and acceptance, study other faiths while remaining openminded to the realization that we are truly ALL His children.

In Love and Light...
Reticuli :yoda:

Raguel said:

Hello there.

You seem to be ignoring John 14:5-11, where he clearly says that he is one with God.

"5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves."

So no, he didn't always refute his divinity. That said I agree with you about the differences between much Christian dogma and the teachings of Jesus.

Click to expand...

14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Click to expand...

Jesus said I am the way and the truth to God.

he was right every messenger of God in his time was the way to God

14:10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

Click to expand...

These phrases would imply Jesus’ divinity, if the remainder of the same Gospel is ignored. However, nine verses later, in John 14:20, Jesus is also recorded as saying to his disciples, “In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.” Thus, if Jesus’ statement “I am in the Father and the Father is in me” means that he is God, then so were his disciples. This symbolic statement means oneness of purpose and not oneness of essence. The symbolic interpretation is further emphasized in John 17:20-21, wherein Jesus said, “20 I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou has sent me.”

michel said:

Ali, From what I have understood, since being here, is that the Jesus of Islam is totally different from the Jesus of Christianity.

I won't try to tell you that your understanding of Jesus is wrong, as long as you don't tell me that the way I perceive Jesus is wrong............

Click to expand...

what is the difference?
The difference is you say that Jesus claimed divinity.
and we say he did not claimed divinity.
even Bible says the same.

Todd said:

Thought I'd add this:

Matthew 16:13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God." 17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.

Jesus agrees with Peter that he is "The Christ, the son of the living God." Also, more subtly, notice that Jesus says "and on this rock I will build my chuch". It's very subtle, but he says "MY church" which would imply divinity.

Anyway, wecome to the forum. There are a lot of differing opinions here. I hope you enjoy the debates and discussions.

Click to expand...

Son of God
there are numerous places in the Old Testament where this title has been given to others.

God called Israel (Prophet Jacob) His “son” when He instructed Prophet Moses to go to Pharaoh in Exodus 4:22-23, “22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is my first-born son, 23and I say to you, ‘Let my son go that he may serve me.’ ”

In 2nd Samuel 8:13-14, God calls Prophet Solomon His son, “13 He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son.”

God promised to make Prophet David His son in Psalms 89:26-27: “26 He shall cry unto me, ‘Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation,’ 27Also I will make him my first-born, higher than the kings of the earth.”

In the New Testament, there are many references to “sons of God” other than Jesus. For example, when the author of the Gospel according to Luke listed Jesus’ ancestors back to Adam, he wrote: “The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.”

Some claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, “I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’

It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself “Son of God”. Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself “Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called “Son of God”: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’ But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”

The use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God"

Reticuli said:

Hello,
I'm constantly praying that someday everyone in the world comes to understand that God, or Allah, or Buddah, or whatever people call our creator,is EVERYONE's God. He belongs to no single person, no single religion.
People, humans, wrote all the scriptures in the entire world and everyone thinks theirs is the only correct one...


The are all correct.:yes:

If anyone would dare to care enough to investigate all the different religions then you would see there are many similarities. And the differences are not that great. The differences dont even matter.

Do you honestly believe that the infinate Creator of this entire Universe cares if we swear, or cares if we miss church? Or cares if we build huge buildings or meet in humble shacks?

What or loving God cares about is how we humans treat each other. What? God the creator saw you in blue jeans??? He only cares about the love we have in our hearts.

Humankind will only advance spiritually when us humans (and others) recognize that Earth is a school, to learn how to grow in love, compassion and tolerance and understanding.


Please every child of our Infinate Creator... don't accept just your beliefs without question, as God is like a magnificent prism, with many brilliant sides to Him. Learn tolerance and acceptance, study other faiths while remaining openminded to the realization that we are truly ALL His children.

In Love and Light...
Reticuli :yoda:

Click to expand...

MASHALLAH
I apriciate your thoughts

that is what Quran says

3:64
"say: o people of the scripture come to the common terms as between us and you..."
which is the first term
"... that we worship none but Allah(God) and we shall ascribe no partners with him..."

that is what I am doing in this thread