A Question About the Holy Spirit

Baladas · Jan 28, 2015

I have always wondered this, but for some reason I never asked my pastors and fellow seminary students:

I was always taught that according to John 14:26, and Acts 2:1 that the Holy Spirit was sent to the Church after Jesus had come, died, risen and ascended.

What doesn't make sense to me is that there are multiple references to the Holy Spirit being in the world prior to these events in the Old Testament (Pslams 51:11, Isaiah 63:10-11), as well as in Luke 1:15 and 1:35.

Can anyone explain this? I've been wondering this for a while and I am curious.

Thank you.

lovemuffin · Jan 28, 2015

I think typically the distinction would be between the the presence of the Holy Spirit in the world in some general way (Isiah 63:10) or even acting through certain individuals in a limited way, such as the description of the word of the Lord coming upon the prophets, and the gift of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a new and fuller way after Pentecost. The promise of the sending of the Spirit in John doesn't imply that the Spirit was not present in the world prior to Christ

Baladas · Jan 28, 2015

I see. That makes sense. Thank you.

Brickjectivity · Jan 28, 2015

seekingtruth said:
I was always taught that according to John 14:26, and Acts 2:1 that the Holy Spirit was sent to the Church after Jesus had come, died, risen and ascended.

Hi, seekingtruth. There is a song in the Bible with the following line: "Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me." (NIV Psalm 51:11). Its is a psalm by King David after he has Bathsheba's husband killed, and he is found guilty and his own child dies to punish him. He mourns the death of his child, he mourns that his hands have become a killer's hands, he mourns that he no longer is a symbol of righteousness, and he mourns that he is unworthy to speak. Basically his word is dirt. Part of his prayer is "Open my lips." This is like or this is the prayer of adoption referred to in Romans 8:15, where deep down inside the person calls to be adopted. It is a desire for renewal. Its a deep longing that cannot be verbally expressed, because it is so painful and exceptionally urgent. It is like the Jesus parable of the evil tax collector who wishes he wasn't so evil and beats his own breast. (Luke 18:13)

There is a theme that spans various parts of the Bible where people have to be renewed, so they don't just get the Holy Spirit and then they 'Have' it. They have to keep getting it. In the book Judges, every time Sampson exerts himself the Holy Spirit comes on him first, right then just in time for him to lift heavy objects or to fight. So he isn't constantly strong but is given a burst of strength just in the moment that he needs it. Jesus does lots of miracles, but remember that Jesus also makes daily prayers and occasionally goes away by himself. The theme of renewal begins in the story of the Israelite's trek through the desert where they have to collect manna day by day and are not allowed to collect more than they need for just that day or for the weekend. Its a theme that extends all the way through to every book in the canon.

Baladas · Jan 28, 2015

Brickjectivity said:
Hi, seekingtruth. There is a song in the Bible with the following line: "Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me." (NIV Psalm 51:11). Its is a psalm by King David after he has Bathsheba's husband killed, and he is found guilty and his own child dies to punish him. He mourns the death of his child, he mourns that his hands have become a killer's hands, he mourns that he no longer is a symbol of righteousness, and he mourns that he is unworthy to speak. Basically his word is dirt. Part of his prayer is "Open my lips." This is like or this is the prayer of adoption referred to in Romans 8:15, where deep down inside the person calls to be adopted. It is a desire for renewal. Its a deep longing that cannot be verbally expressed, because it is so painful and exceptionally urgent. It is like the Jesus parable of the evil tax collector who wishes he wasn't so evil and beats his own breast. (Luke 18:13)

There is a theme that spans various parts of the Bible where people have to be renewed, so they don't just get the Holy Spirit and then they 'Have' it. They have to keep getting it. In the book Judges, every time Sampson exerts himself the Holy Spirit comes on him first, right then just in time for him to lift heavy objects or to fight. So he isn't constantly strong but is given a burst of strength just in the moment that he needs it. Jesus does lots of miracles, but remember that Jesus also makes daily prayers and occasionally goes away by himself. The theme of renewal begins in the story of the Israelite's trek through the desert where they have to collect manna day by day and are not allowed to collect more than they need for just that day or for the weekend. Its a theme that extends all the way through to every book in the canon.

Thank you for the length and detail of your post. It was a great refresher, and it reminded me of a sermon my pastor gave a long time ago. He had said that he believed that there was a difference between "having" to Holy Spirit and "being filled" with the Holy Spirit. That "being filled" was something that only occurs in certain situations. I'm not sure what I think of that, but your post definitely makes sense to me and clears things up for me as far as this is concerned.

Renewal is definitely a central theme in the Bible, you are very right about that. Rivers in the wasteland.

Blessings to you.

Ingledsva · Jan 28, 2015

seekingtruth said:
I have always wondered this, but for some reason I never asked my pastors and fellow seminary students:

I was always taught that according to John 14:26, and Acts 2:1 that the Holy Spirit was sent to the Church after Jesus had come, died, risen and ascended.

What doesn't make sense to me is that there are multiple references to the Holy Spirit being in the world prior to these events in the Old Testament (Pslams 51:11, Isaiah 63:10-11), as well as in Luke 1:15 and 1:35.

Can anyone explain this? I've been wondering this for a while and I am curious.

Thank you.

Because there is no trinity in the Bible.

The problem is that people have been led to believe Holy Spirit means a being.

Holy Spirit is just God's Divine active power.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Sacred Power (Spirit,) and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

John doesn't actually seem to say Holy Spirit. It is written differently.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Spirit of the Consecrated/Holy/Religious which is sent from the Father, in my name, that same thou to teach always, and bring to your remembrance, that which I revealed to you.

*

Brandon Brossett · Jan 28, 2015

Let me put it simple john 14:17 He said he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. The Spirit of God has always been with but not in until the day of pentacost was fully come

Brickjectivity · Jan 28, 2015

seekingtruth said:
Blessings to you.

Thanks! Best wishes.

b.finton · Jan 28, 2015

Brandon Brossett said:
Let me put it simple john 14:17 He said he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. The Spirit of God has always been with but not in until the day of pentacost was fully come

I agree, but with my typical twist upon things.

The term "pentecost" is Greek for "passover." The fullness of the Breath of the Holy is not understood until the firstborn of all "Egyptians" within are consumed by fulfillment of the promise of Spirit baptism. "Egyptians" are the thoughts, urges, and addictions that enslave the destined Children of Light.

The prevailing understanding of "Pentecost" invokes the Hebrew word aliyah (meaning "ascent, progress"), which connotes the experience of being "caught up in the Spirit." The Hebrew word can also be read as both "near Yah" and as "together with Yah." Baptism in the Spirit saves and brings one near Yah. The Spirit's victory in driving out the inward roots of error from before us brings Unity, as we overcome by virtue of the Presence within.

There is a dramatic aliyah when one receives baptism of the Spirit; but the fulfillment of that seal of promise will not come except there is a falling away, first: the joy of knowing the reality of the Spirit fades in the work of overcoming. Those who overcome go no more in and out: their joy is made full; for they attain the full stature of the anointed Y'Shua, who demonstrated the fullness of Yahushua, the Salvation of Yah.

b.

Ingledsva · Jan 28, 2015

Brandon Brossett said:
Let me put it simple john 14:17 He said he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. The Spirit of God has always been with but not in until the day of pentacost was fully come

Technically yes, as such come from God, however this is not Jesus. It says it is the Spirit of Divine TRUTH.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, the Spirit of the Consecrated/Holy/Religious/Divine which is sent from the Father, in my name, that same thou to teach always, and bring to your remembrance, of that which I revealed to you.

It seems to be saying that the REVEALED KNOWLEDGE of Jesus, with them at the moment, will be the Comforter after his death, in the sent Spirit of Truth, and Divine Knowledge, through remembrance of Jesus and his teaching and truth.

*

Brickjectivity · Jan 28, 2015

b.finton said:
The term "pentecost" is Greek for "passover."

I have just been looking around the internet and most people correlate Pentecost in the book Acts with the 'Feast of weeks' that comes after passover. Why does the Greek render the passover into 'Pentecost'? That confuses me.

lovemuffin · Jan 28, 2015

Brickjectivity said:
I have just been looking around the internet and most people correlate Pentecost in the book Acts with the 'Feast of weeks' that comes after passover. Why does the Greek render the passover into 'Pentecost'? That confuses me.

I think he's wrong. The greek word for passover is Pascha (πασχα), which is what it is called still in the eastern orthodox church. Pentecost means literally "fiftieth", referring to the 50th day after the Passover.

Brandon Brossett · Jan 28, 2015

Pentacost was a Passover feast that lasted 50 days that is why Peter said when the day of pentacost was fully come

Brickjectivity · Jan 28, 2015

Ok, got it.

Ingledsva · Jan 28, 2015

Brickjectivity said:
I have just been looking around the internet and most people correlate Pentecost in the book Acts with the 'Feast of weeks' that comes after passover. Why does the Greek render the passover into 'Pentecost'? That confuses me.

I looked around.

Pentecost is the Greek name for Shavuot, the Israelites' spring harvest festival, which was going on when the Holy Spirit (Divine Power) descended on the disciples.

Also called Feast of Weeks, FirstFruits, Shavuot. the harvest festival celebrated fifty days after the second day of Passover on the sixth and seventh days of Sivan, and commemorating the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai

"fiftieth", found only in the New Testament (Acts 2:1; 20:16; 1 Cor. 16:8). The festival so named is first spoken of in Ex. 23:16 as "the feast of harvest," and again in Ex. 34:22 as "the day of the firstfruits" (Num. 28:26). From the sixteenth of the month of Nisan (the second day of the Passover), seven complete weeks, i.e., forty-nine days, were to be reckoned, and this feast was held on the fiftieth day."
Pentecost | Define Pentecost at Dictionary.com

Pentecosten "Christian festival on seventh Sunday after Easter,"

So it follows Pascha/Passover.

*

b.finton · Jan 29, 2015

Ingledsva said:
Pentecost is the Greek name for Shavuot, the Israelites' spring harvest festival, which was going on when the Holy Spirit (Divine Power) descended on the disciples.

Correct: wheels, within wheels.

b.finton · Jan 29, 2015

b.finton said:
Correct: wheels, within wheels.

It might be mistaken that I meant to be coy: laying a trap of some kind. Let me explain.

The holy days of Torah celebrate different aspects/faces of the perfecting process: they are one. The Universe coordinates the workings of many clocks to bring us each natural day. The spiritual days of Torah? Another paradigm, yet based on the common paradigm we share as mortals. In their fullness, these spiritual times align.

"As the mother, the daughter." If the letter (pshat/literal sense) of Torah is nailed to the post, so is the letter of the New Testament.

b.finton · Jan 30, 2015

Passover: death of the firstborn of Mitzraim at baptism by the Breath of the Holy. Thus, both circumcision of the planted seed yet to emerge from the ground and Spiritual identification of the first-fruit that shall mature among the tares as it grows and ripens, and also the beginning of growth.

First-Fruits: first acknowledged growth directly attributable the Spirit's residence within, as the remaining sons of Mitraim are isolated to observation and winnowed from our beings by acts of YH. Understanding of the Presence within grows as works follow faith: he who does not work does not eat. Necessary ministrations to activate works and stimulate growth continues.

Day of Atonement: alignment of human faculties with divine will: the day that is as a thousand years. The spirit generated by the faculties of the flesh is in full agreement with the Spirit of Truth.

Tabernacles: the active phase of the spiritual walk: the perfecting spirit is guided though those life situations that serve the process of overcoming.

Johnlove · May 8, 2015

People it does not matter at all about why Jesus told the apostles it was important for him to go to the Father, so he could send the Holy Spirit to teach them.

Jesus did not and for me, does not explain why he does what he does.

We are servants of God, and as servants we do as we are told, and don’t question why.

Remember Jesus told us to pray for his will to be done here on earth as it is done in heaven. It is God’s will not our will that the Holy Spirit teaches us to live.

(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”

(John 16:13) “But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come.”

(John 14:26) “but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you.”

URAVIP2ME · Feb 15, 2016

Baladas said:
Thank you for the length and detail of your post. It was a great refresher, and it reminded me of a sermon my pastor gave a long time ago. He had said that he believed that there was a difference between "having" to Holy Spirit and "being filled" with the Holy Spirit. That "being filled" was something that only occurs in certain situations. I'm not sure what I think of that, but your post definitely makes sense to me and clears things up for me as far as this is concerned.
Blessings to you.

Interesting ^ above ^ ' having ' and or ' being filled '

I notice at Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 people had God's holy spirit ' put upon ' them.
At Proverbs 1:23 God would ' pour out ' His holy spirit.
That is in harmony with Acts of the Apostles 2:17-18 that God would ' pour out ' His spirit
At Romans 8:16 God's spirit would ' bear witness ' with our spirit...
At Romans 8:26 God's spirit would ' make intercession ' ( or plead ) for us.......

A Question About the Holy Spirit

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