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"A man's foes shall be they of his own household" ~ Matthew 10:36 ~

FFH

Veteran Member
evearael said:
I certainly support someone escaping such a dangerous position. It is awful to think someone would bring firearms into a religious debate but, yes, now that you mention it, it is certainly feasible. However, I would not use theological differences alone as a reason to break off contact, trust your experiences and your instinct... if it feels threatening, get out of there.
This isn't a personal therapy session, but I might as well explain my personal situation again.

My seperation between me and my family was over mild physical and mental abuse, compared to some that may be experiencing much worse.

I had to seperate myself from my family because the physical and mental abuse was at the breaking point where it was ruining my life, which was about 18 years ago. Nothing serious, but I felt it best for me to seperate from family members. I was getting married anyway.

I moved out, of course when I married, and later the obuse began to affecting my wife as well. She was the one that suggested seperation from family members. She saw the mental abuse I was under and said it was affecting my personality in a bad way. I took her advise over 16 years ago, and limit my contact with my family.

Sad situation, but it seems to work for us.
 

may

Well-Known Member
Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. ....................Jesus knew that if a person was a true follower of him , it would coarse problems , because the world in general , does not live to the same standards or ways as Jesus taught , and family members would more than likely be oppossed and make it difficult for a follower of Jesus , that is where the division comes along , family members become like enemies , because of the way they treat christians . Jesus knew this would happen. so it is not Jesus making war , but Jesus telling it how it will be for his followers
 

FFH

Veteran Member
may said:
Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. ....................Jesus knew that if a person was a true follower of him , it would coarse problems , because the world in general , does not live to the same standards or ways as Jesus taught , and family members would more than likely be oppossed and make it difficult for a follower of Jesus , that is where the division comes along , family members become like enemies , because of the way they treat christians . Jesus knew this would happen. so it is not Jesus making war , but Jesus telling it how it will be for his followers
These are my thoughts, exactly, on this matter.

May, you are a kindred spirit. My brother/sister in Christ.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
FFH, that would make Christ a hypocrite. For he, himself drank, partied, howled at the moon with sinners. Well maybe not howled at the moon, but I've learned from another thread, just because it's not written, doesn't mean he didn't do it. ;)
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
I don't think "family" meant Family as we read it;

This seems worth reading:http://www.the-churchofchrist.com/p...of_matthew_103436_as_quoted_from_micah_76.htm


Now, how does this apply to Matthew 10:34-36? If you go back all the way to the beginning of the chapter you will notice that this chapter concerns the sending of the disciples on the limited commission. The entire chapter is devoted to instruction on what the disciples should expect when they go out into the world and preach the gospel to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" (verse 6). There are two types of instruction given to the disciples in this chapter. First there is positive instruction as to what they are to do on the limited commission. This comprises verses 5-15. Then there are various and sundry warnings given to the disciples about what they could expect from the unbelievers. This comprises verses 16-42. Chapter 11 verse 1 clearly indicates that this entire section of scripture was given as instruction for this limited commission because it gives this conclusion to the commission in these words: "When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples."
The section of scripture with which we are concerned falls within the sundry warnings that Jesus is giving to his disciples regarding the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus words to them are basically this. Don't expect that you will receive a warm welcome out of the unfaithful. When you preach the gospel, people are going to become your enemies. In this sense, Jesus' came to bring a sword. The warning of Micah describing the unfaithful holds true here. Even among families, there will be division. This is the typical response of the unfaithful. So Micah's description of the unfaithful apply to the situation where disciples would be going into the very houses of the unfaithful to preach the gospel, and they were to be aware as to how the unfaithful would respond to this preaching. So in essence, that is the reason Jesus quotes from Micah.
One further question presents itself. What applicability does this passage have, if any, today? While the passage specifically addressed what the twelve disciples were to do on the limited commission, we can learn from both Micah and from this passage what the attitude of the unfaithful will be. When it comes to preaching the gospel, the unfaithful will not want anything to do with it. They will oppose it. They will reject it. They will even sever family ties over it if they disapprove of it. It is our responsibility, however, to preach the gospel regardless of what kind of problems that may cause. So this passage serves as a warning to us as well regarding what kind of attitudes we should expect from some people in regard to the preaching and teaching of the truth. We should also note that Jesus mentions that some will respond in a positive way to the gospel. Notice verses 40-42, "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward."
 

FFH

Veteran Member
jeffrey said:
FFH, that would make Christ a hypocrite. For he, himself drank, partied, howled at the moon with sinners. Well maybe not howled at the moon, but I've learned from another thread, just because it's not written, doesn't mean he didn't do it. ;)
I understand completely. I think what Christ was getting at, is that we should stay clear of our relatives, when it comes to matters of religion.

Family members can get pretty nasty, if you try to start a religious debate.

It's better to start a religious debate with a friend, rather than a family member.

Edit: Here on the forum we don't seem to take things quite as seriously, unlike a family member, who may internalize things a bit more.
 

Mykola

Member
FFH said:
If you are at "variance" with a family member, seperate yourselves from them.

I like this style of exegesis: make just some wild unsupported assertion, and then...

Then the whole bunch of posts will arise: "Well, I think it's stupid", "Who would believe that?" etc.
And whole outrage stems just from one cornerstone unsupported assertion...
 

Mykola

Member
Christiangirl0909 said:
I think what this means is that relative will turn against relative over the matter of Christ. So if you are a Christian, and your sister is an atheist, don't talk to your sister...???

Of course no... How's that, Girl? :)
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
FFH said:
I understand completely. I think what Christ was getting at, is that we should stay clear of our relatives, when it comes to matters of religion.

Family members can get pretty nasty, if you try to start a religious debate.

It's better to start a religious debate with a friend, rather than a family member.

Edit: Here on the forum we don't seem to take things quite as seriously, unlike a family member, who may internalize things a bit more.
Read Michel's post. It puts it all into perspective.
 

Mykola

Member
FFH said:
Can this scripture be reconciled with Matthew 10: 34 ???
Isaiah 9: 6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselors, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Yes.

You say you don't see how does those two fragments of Scripture reconcile...
Let's look:
1) Peace was expected from the Messiah, the Christ. Not in the meaning 'not war', but in the meaning 'reconciliation with God' - Christ reconciled mankind with God.
2) Not everyone would accept God's Word, so people would be separated - objectively - ones who accept and ones who accept not - Not everyone had actually accepted Him and His word, the same as it is nowadays.

*) If I say to my friend that he's breaking the law, I disturb him, of course, and I bring him rather commotion - because his peace is unlawful. See my point?
**) If, again - pizzaboy brings you pizza, and you don't take it, he doesn't stop being pizzaboy, does he?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
jeffrey said:
Read Michel's post. It puts it all into perspective.
Okay, just read it, but it doen't change my understanding, or the meaning of this scripture, which is there will be strong divisions within families, and extended families, concerning matters of religion.

Better to live a life seperate from a family member whom you are at "variance" with, than put up with a person that constantly tears you down for your beliefs, but more particularly, the way you live your life. At least distance yourself from that person, until they can treat you with respect. Nothing like a sour apple in the family to bring the whole family unit down. It can be an extended family member, or an immediate memeber you no longer live with, it really doesn't matter. Negative comments between family members, cut to the core of your being, and destroy self image. Better to distance or seperate yourselves from such destructive individuals, than to put up with them, and ruin your own life, just so you won't offend them. This is nonsense, and is the cause of many destructive behaviors.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
FFH, Christ taught just the opposite. So did Paul. How could you ever think to change one's mind about Christ if you refuse to be around them? That makes you look arrogant. Remember, Christ taught us to be humble. If you are having problems with your own family, try working it out, not try to twist scripture to give you reason not to be around them.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
jeffrey said:
FFH, Christ taught just the opposite. So did Paul. How could you ever think to change one's mind about Christ if you refuse to be around them? That makes you look arrogant. Remember, Christ taught us to be humble. If you are having problems with your own family, try working it out, not try to twist scripture to give you reason not to be around them.
Believe me, I don't want to try and change anyone. All of my immediate family members are LDS, but there are different belief systems amongst ourselves.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
There are variances in beliefs within religious denominations which can put people at variance with one another, within families. These are the types of things that I have experienced within immediate and extended family member units. For me and my wife's own sanity we stay clear of certain people who have "burned" us in the past.
 

Adstar

Active Member
The peace of Jesus comes to those who embrace Him as Messiah. This does not mean that others will be at peace with your decision to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savoir. On the country, it more often than not causes division and strife. Millions have experienced the separation from their familles when they come to accept Jesus. separated like a sword is cutting them apart.

In the early days after the day of Pentecost many Jewish families where divided over the issue of Jesus and when persecution came family members did betray each other. This has happened a lot down through history and i suspect it will happen again.

But even in turmoil we can have peace of heart. Knowing that we have eternity with God gives us great calmness even when facing death for our beliefs. So Jesus does bring division between us and the world, which can lead to much strife But to us that have been separated from the world this strife, does not affect our inner peace that is caused by the assurance of our eternal destination.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

may

Well-Known Member
michel said:
I don't think "family" meant Family as we read it;

This seems worth reading:http://www.the-churchofchrist.com/passage_study/would_you_explain_the_meaning_of_matthew_103436_as_quoted_from_micah_76.htm


Now, how does this apply to Matthew 10:34-36? If you go back all the way to the beginning of the chapter you will notice that this chapter concerns the sending of the disciples on the limited commission. The entire chapter is devoted to instruction on what the disciples should expect when they go out into the world and preach the gospel to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" (verse 6). There are two types of instruction given to the disciples in this chapter. First there is positive instruction as to what they are to do on the limited commission. This comprises verses 5-15. Then there are various and sundry warnings given to the disciples about what they could expect from the unbelievers. This comprises verses 16-42. Chapter 11 verse 1 clearly indicates that this entire section of scripture was given as instruction for this limited commission because it gives this conclusion to the commission in these words: "When Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples."
The section of scripture with which we are concerned falls within the sundry warnings that Jesus is giving to his disciples regarding the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus words to them are basically this. Don't expect that you will receive a warm welcome out of the unfaithful. When you preach the gospel, people are going to become your enemies. In this sense, Jesus' came to bring a sword. The warning of Micah describing the unfaithful holds true here. Even among families, there will be division. This is the typical response of the unfaithful. So Micah's description of the unfaithful apply to the situation where disciples would be going into the very houses of the unfaithful to preach the gospel, and they were to be aware as to how the unfaithful would respond to this preaching. So in essence, that is the reason Jesus quotes from Micah.
One further question presents itself. What applicability does this passage have, if any, today? While the passage specifically addressed what the twelve disciples were to do on the limited commission, we can learn from both Micah and from this passage what the attitude of the unfaithful will be. When it comes to preaching the gospel, the unfaithful will not want anything to do with it. They will oppose it. They will reject it. They will even sever family ties over it if they disapprove of it. It is our responsibility, however, to preach the gospel regardless of what kind of problems that may cause. So this passage serves as a warning to us as well regarding what kind of attitudes we should expect from some people in regard to the preaching and teaching of the truth. We should also note that Jesus mentions that some will respond in a positive way to the gospel. Notice verses 40-42, "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward."
yes i agree preaching the goodnews is also included , people dont like it , even family members .
 
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