A Moral Attitude Towards Wealth?

A self-made millionaire once told me that making money was only a game to him. "I live on $35,000 a year", he explained, "That's all I really need to keep me fed, clothed, sheltered and happy. The only money that really matters to me is that first $35,000 I make in a year. Beyond that, making money is just a game to me, like basketball. Dollars won or lost are points on the scoreboard. I love the game as much as any pro-basketball player loves basketball; but at the end of the day, I come home and know that it's all just a game; that it really doesn't even matter, except for that first $35,000. Some years are better than others, some years I even loose; but it doesn't inflate me, nor discourage me, because it's a game."

I've known that millionaire for most of his life, and when he explained his attitude towards wealth to me, I knew at once how it made sense of his actions (For instance, he spends more on Christmas gifts for others than he does on luxuries for himself). He's not stingy, but he's frugal. "Waste not, want not", could be his maxim. Yet, in almost everything he does with money on a professional level, you can see a certain playfulness, a cheerfulness or optimism and creativity that is one of the marks of a pro. I once read in a Harvard Business School case study of how he bought out and took over a large company many years ago, when he was about 30. The financing of the take over was very creative for the times. He would have called that one of his "better years", I suppose.

Does this person have a moral attitude towards money? If so, why? If not, why not?

Would you consider him greedy? Again, why or why not?

Do you believe others can learn something of value from his approach to wealth? If so, what?

Lastly, would you be willing to send $29.95 US to Trusty Uncle Sunstone in order to be placed on this millionaire's Christmas list? If so, for immediate preferential treatment, call 1-800-ANOTHER-TRUSTY-UNCLE-SUNSTONE-SCAM today! Please have your credit card, or first born child, ready.

I think his attitude to money is great. There are a lot of people out there who want more than they need, and don't mind stepping on other people to get it.

Things we can learn from him? We don't need as much as we think we do.

Do you know what your friend does or plans to do with the extra dough? He sounds like a great guy.

This sounds like a person with a good outlook on life, and not just (or 'just', hehee) because they're a millionaire.

Sunstone said:

Does this person have a moral attitude towards money? If so, why? If not, why not?

Click to expand...

Do you mean moral as in 'healthy' or that they have an perspective about money based on morality? (Sorry, I'm kind of clueless today!) If it's the former, I certainly think so. They don't seem to think that having wealth makes them a better person. From what you said, they seem more concerned about making their friends and relatives happy than themselves, and I think that's a moral attitude in anyone, whether it's related to wealth or not.

Would you consider him greedy? Again, why or why not?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't. Then again, I'm not sure what I consider greedy. *mulls this over*

Do you believe others can learn something of value from his approach to wealth? If so, what?

Click to expand...

Maybe the idea that money is a tool that can reflect the user? (As you said, this person apparently uses theirs in an optimistic and playful way.) This would help me to remember that what I spend money on reflects myself.

Lastly, would you be willing to send $29.95 US to Trusty Uncle Sunstone in order to be placed on this millionaire's Christmas list? If so, for immediate preferential treatment, call 1-800-ANOTHER-TRUSTY-UNCLE-SUNSTONE-SCAM today! Please have your credit card, or first born child, ready.

Click to expand...

Question! *raises hand* If we want to get on this list, but don't have a child of our own handy, can we use someone else's?

ChrisP said:

Do you know what your friend does or plans to do with the extra dough? He sounds like a great guy.

Click to expand...

When he first told me about his attitude towards wealth, he was about 27 or 28 and single. Time's gone bye and he's married now with two kids: He spends a lot more on his family these days than he ever spent on himself. I've never asked if he gives anything to charity, but I would consider it entirely possible. What he's been doing with the "extra dough" is setting up businesses, running them, then selling them off for a profit.

I like talking with him in part because, even though he's never really had an interest in religion, I'd call him one of the most naturally spiritual people I know. Ironically, he reminds me in his attitude toward life in general (not specifically money) of another friend of mine who raised two happy kids on about $14,000/year. Once, I got them speaking on the phone to each other, and from what I could tell, they immediately hit it off as if they were born brother and sister.

Sunstone said:

Does this person have a moral attitude towards money? If so, why? If not, why not?

Click to expand...

I would say he has a very healthy and admirable attitude toward money...and if there is a moral barometer for money, I would say he ranks highly on the moral meter...in the positive direction.

Would you consider him greedy? Again, why or why not?

Click to expand...

Doesn't seem the least bit greedy. He shares money with his family and most likely charities. Doesn't equal a definition of greedy to me, in fact he sounds like a lovely man. And just because he enjoys starting businesses combined with the game of making money...well, that doesn't qualify as greedy either. Making money is simply a passion of his. If the end result is that he is happy with his line of work....and he shares his wealth in the process? Sounds brilliant if you ask me.

Do you believe others can learn something of value from his approach to wealth? If so, what?

Click to expand...

When I lived in Palm Springs I knew several people who were mega wealthy. One man in particular I enjoyed so much. You would never know from being around him or from the way he dressed that he was a multi millionaire many times over. He was as sweet and generous as could be and not one word of bragging ever left his mouth. And to this day I still regard him as one of the most likeable people/Christians I have ever known.

Your friend seems much the same. And the lesson to be learned is that if you are rich...it's better to be humble about it and share your good fortune. Just makes for good karma.

Lastly, would you be willing to send $29.95 US to Trusty Uncle Sunstone in order to be placed on this millionaire's Christmas list? If so, for immediate preferential treatment, call 1-800-ANOTHER-TRUSTY-UNCLE-SUNSTONE-SCAM today! Please have your credit card, or first born child, ready.

Click to expand...

:biglaugh:

Sunstone said:

Do you believe others can learn something of value from his approach to wealth? If so, what?

Click to expand...

People could learn a lot from his attitude. I think his attitude is extremely healthy.

I live on approximately $10,000 / year. I can afford all my needs and my favorite luxuries. I earn a lot less than the millionaire, but on a good year I'll easily earn double what I spend. I've only had two bad years where I earned less than what I spent.

I must admit that I'm impressed by the person raising 2 kids on $14,000 per year.

A lot of people get into financial trouble because they think they need things that they really don't need. They buy a nice car so they can impress people. Why do you need to impress people with your wealth? The same principle carries over to clothes, homes, etc.

You need a place to live. You need clothes. You need transportation, so you might need a car. But there's always an economical approach.

A Civic will get you every place that a Mercedes will. If you live alone, you don't need a 2 or 3 bedroom place. You probably need a change of clothes for every day of the week, but not for every day of the month. You can wear clothes until they start to fall apart, and if you pick the right fashions, your clothes will still be in style when they finally wear out. Your computer costs a lot less if you bypass the model that was just released and go for the one that's been out for a year.

By living economically, saving is easy (which makes my life much less stressful in bad years), tithing is easy, and meeting emergency expenses (like my upcoming $3000+ dental expense) is easy.

Changing your spending habits isn't something you can accomplish overnight, but it's something you can accomplish.

I can understand why your friends hit it off so well, Sunstone. Most people consider that attitude to be weird, and it's refreshing to talk to the few people who don't.

Karl said:

I can understand why your friends hit it off so well, Sunstone. Most people consider that attitude to be weird, and it's refreshing to talk to the few people who don't.

Click to expand...

You yourself sound very much like how I think of them both: Kind, smart, frugal and spiritual.

A millionaire that I have met said that, in general, you are happier living modestly. He tried living extravegantly, and it almost ruined his marriage. He now drives a used car, and is planning on running it into the ground, and lives in an average house. One of the greatest men I've ever met.

All else being equal, is great wealth corrupting? Is great wealth in itself immoral, or does it matter more how it is being used? Is wealth more corrupting than poverty?

Sunstone said:

All else being equal, is great wealth corrupting? Is great wealth in itself immoral, or does it matter more how it is being used? Is wealth more corrupting than poverty?

Click to expand...

I don't think great wealth is corrupting any more than great poverty is. I think the only thing immoral about wealth, as with any resource, is when it makes a person think that they are better than people that don't have it. So I suppose, in my opinion, that wealth is not inherently good or bad. I think it's a lot like power- what you do with it when you tends to illustrate what kind of a person you are.

For me, it's hard to say that wealth is not more corrupting than poverty, but I think that might be simply because of the types of wealthy people I've known. One of the best and the worst things about poverty is that it can strip away one's sense of pride. When one has had to depend on the kindness of others for food, shelter, warmth and/ or healthcare, one (usually) becomes very aware of the need to return that to the community when they're able to. I don't think that people who've lived through poverty are more generous than people that have been born and raised wealthy- just that they tend to be more aware of some issues on a 'personal' level.

Sunstone said:

All else being equal, is great wealth corrupting? Is great wealth in itself immoral, or does it matter more how it is being used? Is wealth more corrupting than poverty?

Click to expand...

Great subject !!!

Sunstone said:

All else being equal, is great wealth corrupting? Is great wealth in itself immoral, or does it matter more how it is being used? Is wealth more corrupting than poverty?

Click to expand...

I think coveting is the main issue, regardless of the wealth of the individual.

A kid growing up in the ghetto wants shoes and a bicycle that he can't afford, so he becomes a lookout for a drug dealer to get the money. A recent graduate with an MBA has student loans to pay off, but he wants a nice appartment and BMW that he can't afford, so he starts embezzling to get the money.

The corruption comes from wanting more than we can afford. And no matter how much (or little) you own, there's always more to want.

I agree that coveting is morally and spiritually corrupting. So, too, are those related things: greed and envy.

Sunstone said:

Does this person have a moral attitude towards money? If so, why? If not, why not?

Would you consider him greedy? Again, why or why not?

Do you believe others can learn something of value from his approach to wealth? If so, what?

Click to expand...

Yes, perhaps he does have a healthy attitude towards money. Certainly he isn't attached to it, and that's a major thing right there.

That oft misquoted Bible verse actually reads:

For the love of money is the root of all evil.

Lastly, would you be willing to send $29.95 US to Trusty Uncle Sunstone in order to be placed on this millionaire's Christmas list? If so, for immediate preferential treatment, call 1-800-ANOTHER-TRUSTY-UNCLE-SUNSTONE-SCAM today! Please have your credit card, or first born child, ready.

Click to expand...

If Uncle Sunstone can arrange for my first born child to be able to make money like this guy, you can have him right now. It's not like I expect a lot out of Social Security. My kids have to be successful if I expect to have that lavish retirement lifestyle I was planning on.

Specialty baby chicks and ducks are very expensive, you know. They run from $1.69 - $5.00 each. And their food isn't exactly chicken feed either.

Can Riches Make You Happy?
What is the relationship between money and happiness? Do you think that riches would make you happy?

may said:

What is the relationship between money and happiness? Do you think that riches would make you happy?

Click to expand...

Although this thread is not about whether riches make us happy, the pursuit of wealth certainly helps makes the millionaire in the OP happy. On the other hand, the woman mentioned in the thread who raised two kids on about $14,000/year is among the happiest people I know.

There are two ways to keep riches in check.

1)Give it all away (above and beyond what you need)
2)Give a certain percentage away (above and beyond what you need)

Luke 6: 38

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Matthew 19: 29

And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.