"Some Feminists are Man-Haters"

MysticSang'ha said:

I prefer being a feminist. No contest.

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Same. In my case, I very rarely see anyone actually tackle women's rights issues where I live except feminists. The multicultural inspiration is just amazing to me, too. It's so comforting and refreshing to see people take inspiration from each other across cultures to support women's rights.

I'm a feminist. Not an "egalitarian," "men's rights advocate," or anything else. Just a feminist.

(This might look like an excessively sentimental post to some, but I don't really care. )

Apex said:

Damn right I am adorable!

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I wish I were.
It's tough when offering evidence, & it's always the wrong source for this reason or that.
But what is offered to counter it?

Apex said:

Do you have any comments about that actual content of the videoS I posted? You did notice there were two of them, right?

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I'm not interested in derailing this thread by making it about wage disparity.

Apex said:

Damn right I am adorable!

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And I'm not letting you off so easily this time.

Do you support the LDS Church or not? You know, the patriarchal establishment that has sexist beliefs and policies.

Just so we are clear about your stances.

Debater Slayer said:

I'm not interested in derailing this thread by making it about wage disparity.

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You say this.

Debater Slayer said:

And I'm not letting you off so easily this time.

Do you support the LDS Church or not? You know, the patriarchal establishment that has sexist beliefs and policies.

Just so we are clear about your stances.

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But then you ask this?

LittlePinky82 said:

Maybe if you were carrying the pregnancy in the first place you'd have an argument. And it's still not a privilege. You have to use your money for gas along with the money to pay for the bill of having the abortion, you have to not work for a day or if you have children already you might have to have a sitter if you're a single mother. It's really not a privilege if you have to travel. And if you're in the south good luck with that. Imagine one clinic in the whole state. And then you have to think about where is the next clinic to you? A day or two drive? Yeah, some privilege. And by the time you can get there it might be too late with restriction laws.

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Yeah, some privilege. You know what my options are for my part in an accidental pregnancy? Pay child support or go to jail.

LittlePinky82 said:

No, it's not a myth lol.

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You see, this is one of the problems I have with it. People just laugh off criticism of it (granted I didn't provide much criticism in my post, but I'm sure you've probably heard it before: that it doesn't account for different types of jobs, that men take dangerous high paying jobs more than women, that women work fewer hours on average than men, etc...).
I remember I saw an interview with Rachel Maddow, who I think is completely awesome by the way, and someone brought up the wage gap criticisms, and I'm like "finally going to see the 'anti-wage gap' argument taken to task by someone that dismantles BS for a living." Nope, she gave a nervous laugh and an eye roll and changed the subject.
I mean, this isn't like the flat-earthers of gender wage gap, they make some good points. To just gloss over it or laugh it off is kind of point against you. I mean, if every time it's brought up, and people can't or won't argue against it, then maybe there's something to it.

LittlePinky82 said:

I'm not talking about victimization in terms of violent crime but the response to it from police and the court system. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't think I was.

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Statistically the justice system favors women. It's actually one of the big complaints from men's rights groups. I mean, you're complaining about their response to violent crimes against women, until recently there was even a law against raping a man. How's that for a poor response. And it's almost cliche that police officers arrest the male in any complaint of domestic assault, even if he's the victim, but to their credit this is changing. Now they arrest everyone.

Apex said:

You say this.

But then you ask this?

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I think knowing where you are coming from is relevant.

Are you going to answer the question or not? This is a "yes or no" question, so it shouldn't lead to a side discussion.

Debater Slayer said:

I think knowing where you are coming from is relevant.

Are you going to answer the question or not? This is a "yes or no" question, so it shouldn't lead to a side discussion.

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The wage gap has some relevance to this thread. My religious views have absolutely nothing to do with this thread. So no, I will not answer that question.

Apex said:

The wage gap has some relevance to this thread. My religious views have absolutely nothing to do with this thread. So no, I will not answer that question.

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It has less to do with your religious views and more to do with your views on gender-related issues, which you keep making quite clear in these discussions.

Thanks for playing.

Apex said:

The wage gap has some relevance to this thread. My religious views have absolutely nothing to do with this thread. So no, I will not answer that question.

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This is interesting.
The OP is about bringing up something tangential or even irrelevant as a technique of criticizing others.
To urge disclosure of your support for a particular church might be a cromulent illustration thereof.

Why doesn't anyone ask me if I support the atheist agenda?
Does no one care?

Revoltingest said:

Why doesn't anyone ask me if I support the atheist agenda?
Does no one care?

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You sound like a fundamentalist!

Thanda said:

You sound like a fundamentalist!

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I look like one too.
(But not so well groomed.)

Debater Slayer said:

And I'm not letting you off so easily this time.

Do you support the LDS Church or not? You know, the patriarchal establishment that has sexist beliefs and policies.

Just so we are clear about your stances.

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I apologize for this unnecessary comment. In reality, I think that the arguments don't make sense regardless of who they're coming from, and I should have focused on them. I shouldn't have attempted a tu quoque fallacy.

My bad.

MysticSang'ha said:

Give me five examples if they are that ubiquitous, and I shall counter with twice as many highly organized and established groups with momentum and mission who "get **** done" so that you might actually see what "modern" feminism looks like.

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That would negate nothing at all. It would just show that people are different.

And I know that these discussions NEVER turn out good. So why should I invest my time that much?

MysticSang'ha said:

My personal experience with self-proclaimed egalitarians are such that id rather stick my hand in a blender. After 40 years of activism and being raised in a civil-rights supportive household, I have rarely encountered a community that is more inclusive and accepting than feminists.

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Long story short: You are biased and thus can't judge properly how inclusive your movement actually is.

But again have fun, ignore why more and more people hate feminism and generally have a nice day.

Flankerl said:

That would negate nothing at all. It would just show that people are different.

And I know that these discussions NEVER turn out good. So why should I invest my time that much?

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Your claim. Your burden of proof.

Long story short: You are biased and thus can't judge properly how inclusive your movement actually is.

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Hence it's not just up to me, but the many different types of feminists who exist.

But again have fun, ignore why more and more people hate feminism and generally have a nice day.

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Lol that was a cute attempt at being passive aggressive since you are fully aware you have nothing to substantiate your claim. But sure I'll have a nice day. Life is pretty good for me right now, thanks. Have a nice day, too.

Debater Slayer said:

Same. In my case, I very rarely see anyone actually tackle women's rights issues where I live except feminists. The multicultural inspiration is just amazing to me, too. It's so comforting and refreshing to see people take inspiration from each other across cultures to support women's rights.

I'm a feminist. Not an "egalitarian," "men's rights advocate," or anything else. Just a feminist.

(This might look like an excessively sentimental post to some, but I don't really care. )

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Btw, DS, notice the usual suspects coming in to a specific issue in feminism thread JUST for the sole purpose to bash the entirety of feminism?

I think we should start a drinking game in these threads.

MysticSang'ha said:

Btw, DS, notice the usual suspects coming in to a specific issue in feminism thread JUST for the sole purpose to bash the entirety of feminism?

I think we should start a drinking game in these threads.

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Well, in fairness, maybe some people think of us as the "usual suspects" too when we defend feminism. Not like I mind that, you see, but it is a debate forum with known frequent members. It wouldn't be fun if we all agreed.

You know what the funniest thing about the anti-feminist rhetoric is? It has made me even more staunchly feminist. Thank you, anti-feminists.

Debater Slayer said:

Well, in fairness, maybe some people think of us as the "usual suspects" too when we defend feminism. Not like I mind that, you see, but it is a debate forum with known frequent members. It wouldn't be fun if we all agreed.

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Well it would be silly if the anti-feminists - maybe "feminist-phobic" would be a tongue in cheek jab? - invaded every single gosh darn thread about feminism JUST to bash the entirety of feminism. And feminists said nothing in defense.

Of course I'm one of the usual suspects here. I strong-armed the staff into getting what I want in a feminist DIR, right? Well according to legend, that is.

You know what the funniest thing about the anti-feminist rhetoric is? It has made me even more staunchly feminist. Thank you, anti-feminists.

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Oh I'm sure they LOVE that.

MysticSang'ha said:

Well it would be silly if the anti-feminists - maybe "feminist-phobic" would be a tongue in cheek jab? - invaded every single gosh darn thread about feminism JUST to bash the entirety of feminism. And feminists said nothing in defense.

Of course I'm one of the usual suspects here. I strong-armed the staff into getting what I want in a feminist DIR, right? Well according to legend, that is.

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It's not a DIR; it's a man-hating echo chamber. Get your facts straight.

Oh, wait... I forgot that I must agree with you to keep the echo chamber alive. Drats!

Oh I'm sure they LOVE that.

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I hope so! Who am I to dissatisfy them?

MysticSang'ha said:

Btw, DS, notice the usual suspects coming in to a specific issue in feminism thread JUST for the sole purpose to bash the entirety of feminism?

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Isn't that what this thread is about though, why people come in to a specific issue in feminism thread JUST for the sole purpose to bash the entirety of feminism?
And it's in 'General Debates' so you have to have assume opposition was welcome, right?