Nietzsche

Nehustan · May 11, 2006

Sunstone said:
I think one of the most beautiful metaphors in Nietzsche's writings is his evocation of "the cosmic dancer": the person who does not tread heavily on any one opinion, but lightly dances between a 100 opinions, and who, in Nietzsche's opinion, represents the philosopher of the future. In an age of globalization, the metaphor still seems both relevant and apt. To understand only one view these days is almost, as Nietzsche might say, "a will to error".

I think what I call 'singlethink' has been intellectually backward for many centuries dare I say even Millenia. 'Doublethink', i.e. Dilaectic reasoning (which isn't really doublethink, more like the first few numbers of the Fibonacci progression, hey I just improved on Orwell...Fibonaccithink

) whether it be from Socrates, Hegel, or even Marx...Fibonaccithink is the way forward....

d. · May 11, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
So what do you think?

nietzsche's cool.

angellous_evangellous · May 11, 2006

Nehustan said:
I think what I call 'singlethink' has been intellectually backward for many centuries dare I say even Millenia. 'Doublethink', i.e. Dilaectic reasoning (which isn't really doublethink, more like the first few numbers of the Fibonacci progression, hey I just improved on Orwell...Fibonaccithink ) whether it be from Socrates, Hegel, or even Marx...Fibonaccithink is the way forward....

:sleep:

Nehustan · May 11, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
:sleep:

exactly...

Sunstone · May 11, 2006

Nehustan said:
I think what I call 'singlethink' has been intellectually backward for many centuries dare I say even Millenia. 'Doublethink', i.e. Dilaectic reasoning (which isn't really doublethink, more like the first few numbers of the Fibonacci progression, hey I just improved on Orwell...Fibonaccithink ) whether it be from Socrates, Hegel, or even Marx...Fibonaccithink is the way forward....

Well, "doublethink" would still seem to be binary and linear. I think what Nietzsche was getting at with his line about having 100 opinions on a topic was something more than opinions on a scale from black to white with shades of gray between. Try thinking of colors. A box of 100 different colored crayons, for instance. How are red and chartreuse thesis, antithesis or synthesis?

It's my impression there is relatively little linearity in Nietzsche, compared to most Western philosophers.

standing_alone · May 11, 2006

I've only read some of "The Birth of Tragedy" - translated by Walter Kaufmann. I want to read more of his work though.

Sunstone · May 11, 2006

standing_alone said:
I've only read some of "The Birth of Tragedy" - translated by Walter Kaufmann. I want to read more of his work though.

Kaufmann's a good translator. Are you thinking about trying Beyond Good And Evil, and The Gay Science? Just for the record, that's gay in the sense of lighthearted, joyous, happy. Not gay in the sense of your favorite international conspiracy and charity, Standing Alone. Figured you might already know that, but just wanted to make sure you were not disappointed. Both books have been translated by Kaufmann.

When reading Nietzsche, it's best to keep in mind that he sometimes became an idiot when talking about women and Germans. I heard one scholar (a woman) point out that, so far as his opinions of women go, one should keep in mind his experience was of Victorian women. If you do that, then some of his unexpected stupidity can be taken, perhaps, as something like an insight into how twisted social oppression can make people. As, for instance, when he describes women as "cunning".

standing_alone · May 11, 2006

Sunstone said:
Kaufmann's a good translator. Are you thinking about trying Beyond Good And Evil, and The Gay Science? Just for the record, that's gay in the sense of lighthearted, joyous, happy. Not gay in the sense of your favorite international conspiracy and charity, Standing Alone. Figured you might already know that, but just wanted to make sure you were not disappointed. Both books have been translated by Kaufmann.

When reading Nietzsche, it's best to keep in mind that he sometimes became an idiot when talking about women and Germans. I heard one scholar (a woman) point out that, so far as his opinions of women go, one should keep in mind his experience was of Victorian women. If you do that, then some of his unexpected stupidity can be taken, perhaps, as something like an insight into how twisted social oppression can make people. As, for instance, when he describes women as "cunning".

I plan on reading as much as his work as I can. And yes, I knew what he meant by "gay."

And I understand that about Nietzsche (regarding women and Germans) - such were the times. :shrug:

Glad to know Kaufmann's a good translator - I was at the mercy of Criticism: Major Statemensts (my text for my literary analysis class) as to the translation I read. Glad to know my text was a decent one.

Sunstone said:
Not gay in the sense of your favorite international conspiracy and charity, Standing Alone.

'Tis a shame!

Sunstone · May 11, 2006

standing_alone said:
I plan on reading as much as his work as I can. And yes, I knew what he meant by "gay." And I understand that about Nietzsche (regarding women and Germans) - such were the times. Glad to know Kaufmann's a good translator - I was at the mercy of Criticism: Major Statemensts (my text for my literary analysis class) as to the translation I read. Glad to know my text was a decent one.

As usual, I am rendered superfluous! :sad4: O well, as one of three sons, I always thought mom and dad had simply built in redundancy in case one of us went haywire.

'Tis a shame!

I wonder what Nietzsche would say about anti-homosexuality? Perhaps he would notice so much of it is motivated by religion and see it as evidence of a retreat from spirituality? As more evidence "God is dead"? I don't know, but what an interesting question!

standing_alone · May 11, 2006

Sunstone said:
As usual, I am rendered superfluous! :sad4: O well, as one of three sons, I always thought mom and dad had simply built in redundancy in case one of us went haywire.

Nah, you're not superfluous. Once I get around to reading some of his work (right now I'm reading Maxims of George Washington) I could discuss it with you.

Sunstone said:
I wonder what Nietzsche would say about anti-homosexuality? Perhaps he would notice so much of it is motivated by religion and see it as evidence of a retreat from spirituality? As more evidence "God is dead"? I don't know, but what an interesting question!

It is most certainly an interesting question - and one that will never have a certain answer since Nietzsche is no longer alive!

Sunstone · May 11, 2006

standing_alone said:
Once I get around to reading some of his work (right now I'm reading Maxims of George Washington) I could discuss it with you.

You've got a deal! Also, feel invited to PM me with anything that strikes you about the maxims of dear old George.

Nehustan · May 11, 2006

Sunstone said:
Well, "doublethink" would still seem to be binary and linear. I think what Nietzsche was getting at with his line about having 100 opinions on a topic was something more than opinions on a scale from black to white with shades of gray between. Try thinking of colors. A box of 100 different colored crayons, for instance. How are red and chartreuse thesis, antithesis or synthesis?

It's my impression there is relatively little linearity in Nietzsche, compared to most Western philosophers.

I think that's why I said Fibonacci, it is anything but linear (although it can appear as a linear number progression, but if we consider it in a geometrical sense rather than merely in a linear sense it can act as a definite key when considering dialectics). I wrote a poem some years ago which I liked to think of as a dialectic poem called 'The Three Brothers' which did indeed use Red and Green as thesis/antithesis vs thesis/antithesis with the two colours being employed as opposites, it then employed the third brother using the concepts of void/black and light white as the synthesis of what could be called the 'red and chartreuse' dichotomy, and that darkness was light veiled. I wish I had a copy of it to post here in the poetry section. I may try to rewrite it.

Lady Crimson · May 12, 2006

I've only read 'Also Sprach Zarathustra' which I loved very much

I'm currently reading 'The Dawn of the Idols' (I think it's called in english) which seems, at first sight, just as promising as his last piece.

Sunstone · May 12, 2006

Lady Crimson said:
I've only read 'Also Sprach Zarathustra' which I loved very much

I'm currently reading 'The Dawn of the Idols' (I think it's called in english) which seems, at first sight, just as promising as his last piece.

It's usually translated here as, Twilight of the Idols.

Lady Crimson · May 13, 2006

Sunstone said:
It's usually translated here as, Twilight of the Idols.

oh, thanks for clearing that up :bow:

Sunstone · May 13, 2006

So what did you think of Also Sprach Zarathustra, Lady Crimson? Did good old Friedrich make a strong enough case for rethinking the basis of all morality?

angellous_evangellous · May 19, 2006

Sunstone said:
I wonder what Nietzsche would say about anti-homosexuality?

Probably that it's stupid. Just like everything else.

stemann · May 21, 2006

I've read Twilight of the Idols (in English) and am part way through the Anti-Christ, and have also just started Zarathustra. I think a lot of the sentiments, although not corroberated with any actual evidence as philosophy or psychology should be, are true. But he does go about it with some kind of vicious emotion, which i suppose won't endear him to a neutral audience looking for a balanced view.

Sunstone · May 21, 2006

stemann said:
I've read Twilight of the Idols (in English) and am part way through the Anti-Christ, and have also just started Zarathustra. I think a lot of the sentiments, although not corroberated with any actual evidence as philosophy or psychology should be, are true. But he does go about it with some kind of vicious emotion, which i suppose won't endear him to a neutral audience looking for a balanced view.

Vicious? Which translations are you using?

angellous_evangellous · May 22, 2006

stemann said:
i suppose won't endear him to a neutral audience looking for a balanced view.

Nietzsche was writing only for his readers.

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