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An Act Of War!

Latuwr

Member
Hi tigillies,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

You wrote:

"The carnal self is "satan" and the true self is Godly."

This may well be as you say what the "Baha'i" teach, but the OT and NT Scriptures teach no such thing. YAHWEH plainly states that man is a combination of spirit and flesh (see Genesis 6:3). Of course, this spirit in man was given by YAHWEH ELOHIM at the very creation of man as a living soul. This spirit according to the teaching of My Messiah Yahushua gives life to our flesh (see John 6:63). It cannot be therefore denied that good spirit gives and promotes life in the flesh, and the Scriptures teach that the source of this good spirit is YAHWEH ELOHIM (see Jeremiah 2:13). Accordingly, life in the flesh, that is, our carnal self is not HaSatan. The resurrected Messiah Yahushua is life in the flesh, and Yahushua is not HaSatan. Indeed, Yahushua prior to HIS death, burial and 3rd day resurrection possessed life in the flesh as promised for those who obey the Law (see Leviticus 18:5), and Yahushua in no uncertain terms claimed this life for HIMSELF (see John 5:26).

On the other hand, HaSatan is not good spirit. HaSatan is evil spirit, and evil spirit has no capacity to maintain life in the flesh because evil spirit, while being desirous of life in the flesh, will not submit to the practices required to maintain that very life. Evil spirit will not obey the Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM; therefore, evil spirit cannot maintain carnal or fleshly life. Thus, evil spirit must abandon the flesh, and mankind, as a result, justly, and universally, and routinely suffers this most scary of phenomenon, that is, physical death.

Can physical death be overcome?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to engage on this issue, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
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Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I know I run the risk that poor old Outhouse will again start complaining, but I feel compelled to restart this thread according to the original issue. I believe that the resurrected Messiah Yahushua is the restored YAHWEH ELOHIM of Old Testament fame. Accordingly, when YAHWEH ELOHIM commanded the Children of Israel, that is, HIS covenanted People, to completely destroy the inhabitants of the Land which was promised to the Fathers, this shows that YAHWEH ELOHIM does not play games in waging war. YAHWEH commanded that the inhabitants of the Land, that is, the men, women, and children of the Land were to be killed without mercy. The person who commanded this genocide was My Messiah Yahushua if I am correct in my belief; therefore, YAHWEH ELOHIM is proven to accept genocide under certain circumstances.

Now, folks, please show me where YAHWEH ELOHIM has changed in HIS practice. I am more than willing to argue this issue because my knowledge of YAHWEH ELOHIM leads me to believe that Mr. Trump is correct that the families of Islamic terrorists should be aggressively targeted whenever their relatives have killed others out of Islamic beliefs. Would YAHWEH ELOHIM agree with Mr. Trump that such folks should at the very least be targeted?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

prometheus11

Well-Known Member
Am I correct in my analysis of your post...that you primarily wish to discuss support of violence (or , at the very least, targeting) nations and peoples that are unfriendly to the Jewish people? God and Trump agree with you and therefore...genocide. Or at least knowing where everyone is on which you'd like to see genocide visited upon?
 

Latuwr

Member
Prometheus11,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

My post is directed against all folks who believe that it is ok to wage war against and kill civilians through suicide missions. I understand that war must be fought by nations, and when nations fight, innocent men, women, and children are often killed. I do understand that religious wars will also occur, but how do nations fight against assassins disguised as civilians in order to kill noncombatants through suicide missions?

How do nations wage war against the dead? They can only wage war on them through attacking the friends and relatives of the assassins. In this respect, Mr. Trump is spot on in how he would have the United States deal with Islamic Jihadists that have waged war against our citizens.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Prometheus11,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Please allow me to begin to relate to you and others why I take the position above. The Law of YAHWEH ELOHIM is both physical and spiritual, that is, there exists a physical fulfillment, and there exists a corresponding spiritual fulfillment. With both fulfillments, the operative factor is love (agape), and love according to the Scriptures is the fulfillment of the Law.

Under the Law, that is, under the physical fulfillment, the Torah strictly prohibits that parents and their children should be punished with death for each others' sin:

Deuteronomy 24:16

16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

This one Scripture alone proves that YAHWEH would not accept the punishment of My Messiah Yahushua, the Son of the Man, in the stead or in the place of mankind. All of mankind under the Law must be punished for our own sin. This one commandment also prohibits both the State and individuals of the State from visiting capital punishment upon either the parents or the offspring of the parents for the sins of either.

Under the Law, war changes the position of YAHWEH concerning whether or not the children should suffer punishment for the sins of the parents. As we have seen above, YAHWEH commanded that the inhabitants of the Land be driven from the Land for their sin:

Deuteronomy_9:5
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations YAHWEH thy ELOHIM doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which YAHWEH sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

As we see from the Book of Joshua, this driving from the Land involved over and over again putting all the inhabitants of the cities to the sword:

Joshua 6:21

21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ***, with the edge of the sword.

So, under the Law, it does appear that genocide is acceptable to YAHWEH ELOHIM so that sinners might be put to the sword and so that YAHWEH ELOHIM might keep HIS Word.

Of course, both Christians and Jews know that YAHWEH ELOHIM and the Children of Israel entered into a very special covenanted relationship. The Children of Israel became the Wife of YAHWEH:

Isaiah 54:5

5 For thy Maker is thine husband; YAHWEH of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; ELOHIM of the whole earth shall he be called.

The Scriptures do also speak of a New Covenant. Would this New Covenant change the nature of YAHWEH ELOHIM? In other words, is the ELOHIM that promoted genocide under the Old Covenant, is this ELOHIM under the New Covenant now against genocide?

Thanking you and any others that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

atpollard

Active Member
If I bought a house and discovered that there were squatters living in my house, I would probably call the police to "drive them out" of my house. My expectation would be that the police would come and the squatters would leave and I would move into the house that was legally mine. I would not expect the first reaction of the police be to deploy a swat team with poison gas and snipers to ensure that every last squatter was killed.

If the police arrive and ask the squatters to leave, but the squatters respond with a protracted gun battle with the police that results in the squatters getting killed, I would not describe that as 'genocide' of the squatters by the police.

Your knowledge of Hebrew may be better than my knowledge of English, but when I read in Genesis 1 that God created the Earth, I take that to mean that God is the owner of the Earth. When God instructs Israel to 'take possession' of the land which God granted to Abraham, that sure sounds like an owner coming to take possession of what is his by right. The people living in the land that God gave to Abraham are squatters. When I read 'drive out' in English, I take that to mean drive out. They were ordered to leave, they refused, they were to be removed by force.

Joshua 6:21 is specific instructions for the fortress city of Jerico. An armed resistance intended to prevent Israel from taking rightful possession of God's land grant. If I remember the details correctly, EVERYONE was not killed in that story. I seem to recall a woman named Rahab and her family that were specifically spared.

MORAL: Obey God is good, and oppose God is bad.
I do not see where you get all this talk of Genocide.
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi atpollard,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Yes, this thread does become a little bit more interesting when Jericho is brought into the picture. Ah, the House of Rahab, I have been seeking to find the House of the whore, Rahab, for almost 40 years now, and I have not found her. Allow me to explain. The City of Jericho is representative of this present world, and the King of Jericho is HaSatan, who deceives the whole world. All the religious houses of this world are built into the wall of Jericho, and the primary function of these religious centers is to prevent the inhabitants of this world from leaving the Kingdom of HaSatan, that is, his totally deceived City. Rahab has a window in her house from which the spies do escape the City. In my humble opinion, that window is baptism. Enough for now.

Your analysis of the historical situation which confronted the inhabitants of the Land of Canaan is quite wrong. It is true that YAHWEH ELOHIM distributed the Earth to the Sons of Adam, and YAHWEH did establish the borders of the nations which came forth from Adam and later from Noah. Canaan was a Son of Ham, and his descendants were established by YAHWEH as the inhabitants of what later would became the Land of Israel (see Genesis 10:15-20). The Canaanites were not squatters. The Land of Canaan was their Land given to them by YAHWEH. Even so, what YAHWEH gives, YAHWEH can take away, and this is exactly what happened to the Canaanites. They came under a ban of complete destruction (cherem) ordained by YAHWEH ELOHIM through Moses right here:

Deuteronomy 20:16-18

16 But of the cities of these people, which YAHWEH thy ELOHIM doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as YAHWEH thy ELOHIM hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their elohim; so should ye sin against YAHWEH your ELOHIM.

When you look at this history objectively, the activity of the Children of Israel with respect to the inhabitants of Canaan is not dissembler to the activity of Herr Hitler and Reichsfuhrer Himmler towards the Jews of Europe during WW11. Both engaged in genocide.

I know, you don't like the idea that My Messiah would engage in genocide, do you?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 
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