vnc
Member
i'm not going to risk getting married at age 47. the divorce rates are too high. i wasn't allowed to marry within the church for 20 years. its much less risky to fornicate at my age.
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on what basis should i involve myself with christianity?
- Thread starter vnc
- Start date
I would think that marriage is inherently about the specific situation as opposed to the statistical trends, but you should of course do what you feel to be best.
vnc
Member
i'm just going to risk getting married and divorced at my age. if i married the non-christian that i'm with, it would lead to divorce. and i don't know any christian women, having been expelled from the church for 20 years. and a christian woman is not going to marry a 20 year excommunicant anyway.
As I said, you know best. It is, after all, your life.
vnc
Member
the church imposed its knowledge on me and made my decision for me. i chose to engage in christian marriage at age 30, but my participation in christian marriage was blocked by the church.
I have a fair number of friends from the Chicago area. From discussing their church experiences, "leadership" means something a lot different in Chicago than it means in the other parts of America where I have lived and attended church. What they describe is something closer to a family political appointment than a position of service to the greater body of believers. If this is what you are struggling against, you have my deepest sympathy. I would, at best, caution you to guard your heart because you are charting some very dangerous waters that can do a great deal of harm to your walk with God. Bitterness roots easily, grows quickly and is not easy to extract.
First make sure that you have done what you should.
Matthew 18:15-17 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Luke 17:1-4 1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.
“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
From these, I see that there is a time and place to confront. There is a call to repent. There is a requirement to forgive.
You claim to have been confronted.
Have you repented?
Have you asked forgiveness? (Were you sincere?)
Have they forgiven you?
[I can answer none of these questions for you, I am not there. I can not look into your eye or their eye. I cannot know the details. Only God can see everyone's heart. ... and the answer is none of my business.]
However, if you have not done what God requires of you, then they are correct to question your sincerity.
If you have done what God requires and they are unforgiving, then you must question the condition of their heart and trust God to deal with them.
What you (actually all Christians) require is fellowship and community. A place to find and give support and practice all of the 'one another' things commanded in scripture.
The only advice that I would offer is that church administration may hand out titles, but no one can stop you from sharing the compassion and support of God with someone in need.
Every Christian is called to be a friend.
Find some place where you can be a friend, and friendship will be returned.
God Bless you and Keep you.
First make sure that you have done what you should.
Matthew 18:15-17 15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Luke 17:1-4 1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.
“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
From these, I see that there is a time and place to confront. There is a call to repent. There is a requirement to forgive.
You claim to have been confronted.
Have you repented?
Have you asked forgiveness? (Were you sincere?)
Have they forgiven you?
[I can answer none of these questions for you, I am not there. I can not look into your eye or their eye. I cannot know the details. Only God can see everyone's heart. ... and the answer is none of my business.]
However, if you have not done what God requires of you, then they are correct to question your sincerity.
If you have done what God requires and they are unforgiving, then you must question the condition of their heart and trust God to deal with them.
What you (actually all Christians) require is fellowship and community. A place to find and give support and practice all of the 'one another' things commanded in scripture.
The only advice that I would offer is that church administration may hand out titles, but no one can stop you from sharing the compassion and support of God with someone in need.
Every Christian is called to be a friend.
Find some place where you can be a friend, and friendship will be returned.
God Bless you and Keep you.
vnc
Member
i'm not sure what a family political appointment is. i dealt with people who had religious leadership positions.
it was concealed from me who first accused me, so i never got to see my original accuser. i was then accused by a leader one on one. after that, i was accused by three leaders at once, but the allegation had entirely changed. i was afterward brought before the Elders but not accused. i was then expelled via the church's attorney through a mailed legal letter which contained no allegations. i was not permitted to correct anyone myself.
contact was restricted, so there was no opportunity to repent, forgive, repent, forgive, etc.
contact was restricted, so i'm not sure how any of this could have been accomplished.
i'm trying to build relationships 20 years later. my closest friend is my girlfriend, although she is not christian.
With respect to this first point: In the churches that I heard about and experienced first hand, everyone in leadership was related through marriage to a few families that were all close friends. Leadership was very much 'church politics'.
As far as the rest, I can only wish you luck and pray that God leads you to the open door of His choosing.
If you ever get to Spring Hill Florida, visit NBLC and I'll introduce you to some Christians you can fellowship with.
God Bless.
vnc
Member
okay, that makes sense. i've seen some smaller churches like that. maybe some big churches too.
thank you. GOD bless.