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An Act Of War!

outhouse

Atheistically
Ok, Outhouse, why do you believe that

Because unlike you, I actually study and know what I am debating. I go to school for these topics and learn.


What makes you so certain that the torture stake is only a means of execution?

Non sequitur

I never stated it was the only means

why do you not believe in My Messiah

Because you have no credibility what so ever.

Your no teacher
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Outhouse,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"I go to school for these topics and learn."

I actually agree with you right here. As it is written concerning all those who are schooled apart from the Word of ELOHIM as are you yourself:

2 Timothy 3:7

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

While I may not be a teacher in your eyes (an extraordinary admission of your part considering that you have on another thread already accused me of preaching and proselytizing), even so I prove to be teacher enough to force you to now reluctantly admit on this thread that the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua is more than just a means of execution. Thank you for this admission!

Consider what you yourself have already admitted to everyone on this thread. You have inadvertently admitted to all that My Messiah Yahushua actually existed and that HE was executed on the Cross. I applaud you admission especially considering that you as an atheist do now consider the above allegations as credible and able to convince skeptics. Stick around, it may be possible that you may yet be blessed to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

outhouse

Atheistically
While I may not be a teacher in your eyes (an extraordinary admission of your part considering that you have on another thread already accused me of preaching and proselytizing),

Proselytizing does not make you a teacher.
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Nowhere Man,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You commented to this thread:

"Wasn't it mentioned and written that vengeance is the Lord's?"

I do not know about mentioned, but it is definitely written that vengeance belongs to YAHWEH. I have placed absolute faith in that vengeance, and I have learned that it is very foolish to take one's own vengeance. YAHWEH is totally just in HIS vengeance. Why should anyone take his or her own vengeance and short change the vengeance of YAHWEH ELOHIM?

It is written that YAHWEH through the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua has HIMSELF been reconciled with respect to sinful mankind:

Romans 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to ELOHIM by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

It is through the Cross of Messiah that this reconciliation takes place. Obviously, here also it is proven that the Cross is much more than merely a means of execution. How is it that YAHWEH ELOHIM could indeed be reconciled with mankind, HIMSELF being a just ELOHIM, with the execution of a totally innocent SON? Would you care to give answer?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Does Christianity have any real idea of how the ELOHIM go about fighting a War should THEY decide to do so? Most Christians have no understanding that the Cross was an act of war. Consider this scripture:

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Obviously, this scripture indicates that when the ELOHIM fight, THEIR fight is to the death. THEY hold nothing back. When THEY fight, it is total warfare. The ELOHIM seek rightly for the total destruction of THEIR enemies.

If we fully understood how the ELOHIM go about fighting in a spiritual sense, would this not help us to understand how we should fight our enemies in a physical sense? What do you think? Should Christianity love Islam to death, or should Christianity fight Islam in a physical sense to a no holds bar fight to the death according to the Scriptures?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

An act of inner war to destroy ones abstract enemies that cause suffering. Death to harmful ideologies, thoughts, and emotions.
Death to a harmful mental worldview and the establishment of a peaceful mental worldview.

Slay and destroy every last abstract enemy within.

If I were proactive for outward/physical death/killing, I would go to war within myself to die to that abstract thinking and emotion.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Latuwr,
Respectfully, nobody finds the tone of Outhouse's posts more annoying than I do, but you are not really being honest here.
He doesn't need a scripture, it is the definition of the word.

Merriam-Webster: Cross
1a : a structure consisting of an upright with a transverse beam used especially by the ancient Romans for execution.


You are redefining a word in the English Language with no reference or support.

So, let's all play that game:
I choose to define 'cross' as a soft fuzzy kitten.
"So Jesus defeated death by snuggling up with it and that is exactly how Christianity should deal with Islam."

Now I get to challenge YOU to find a scripture that says that a cross is not a soft fuzzy kitten.

[Communication requires both honesty and good faith.]

Scripture on the crucifixion:
Matthew 27:32-50
Mark 15:21-37
Luke 23:26-46
John 19:1-37

It sounds like an execution to me.

The word for cross means stake or pole.

To crucify means to increase in power, which would be to increase in awareness.

Pole as in polarity.

It's an inner/spiritual transformation within a human at the place of their skull (brain/mind).

Man and religion and entertainment has grossly made it into savage imagery and as literal history. The execution that should occur at the place of your skull is this gross perception of imagery. I do understand it would be excruciating for one to die to their longly held abstract beliefs. One would have to sacrifice all of the idolatrous imagery they have created, as well as their entire emotional investment into that.
Death in a "spiritual" sense has nothing to do with literal physical death in the texts.

Why haven't you picked up your literal cross and followed "Jesus" to an excruciating literal execution?

The entire crucifixion story is the story of "enlightenment."
 
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Latuwr

Member
Hi atpollard,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"Under the grace of the perfect Lamb of God offered by our perfect high priest (in the order of Melchizedek, not Arron ... again, you chose Hebrews) ...
... the penalty is paid forever."


And you just before did write:

"Under our sin, we were living under a death sentence with a destiny to one day stand before a Holy God and give account ... the wages of sin is death.
Under the Law, the sacrifice on the altar purchased us a 1 year stay of execution (you are quoting Hebrews)."


If you yourself are no longer under the Law through the grace that is found in the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua, and if you yourself through that same grace are no longer under sin, why is it that you still consider that you yourself must still physically die? Being under grace, how is it that you can write and then make this your next statement?:

"We must still face physical death"

Apparently, with respect to Christians like yourself, HaSatan still retains the power of death over your life!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Unification,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"The word for cross means stake or pole."

That is what my Jehovah Witness Friends have sought to teach me, but I reject their teaching because of the enlightenment which I have received from My Messiah Yahushua concerning HIS Cross. My Messiah stated that HIS purpose was to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. This fulfilled Law also includes elements of the Oral Law established by the Elders of Israel which must be observed by all Israel. This is especially true of the Laws concerning Erubin. An Erub is a deposit of foodstuffs located in a courtyard or alley surrounded by numerous private residences. Entrance from a private residence to this common courtyard is gained by establishing an artificial doorway from the private residence to the public courtyard. The minimum requirements for this artificial doorway was one upright sidepost and one cross beam member. This is a perfect description of the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua.

What this artificial doorway or Cross accomplishes is the unification of all the various private residences into one huge residence so that all the various members of the ghetto could freely move about and carry objects on the Sabbath Day from their private residences into the public courtyard and also share in the deposited food. Of course, My Messiah Yahushua is the deposited food or Erub as My Messiah did declare concerning HIMSELF:

John 6:56-58

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Of course, this wonderful Erub is established through the Death, Burial, and 3rd Day Resurrection of My Messiah Yahushua. Is this the type of enlightenment to which you subscribe?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
You don't even know the mans real first name do you?
Shabbat Shalom outhouse, it's been a little while, how are you doing? I see you are still trying to teach people how wrong they are, and how much you yourself cannot be in error, with all you studious education. With all your learning, why don't you please expound to us the man's REAL first name. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Outhouse is correct in that the cross, or crucifix, was an instrument of torture and execution. It has nothing to do with war. It has been used by numerous cultures across the world.

Also, anything you quote from any holy book will be man made. God never sat down behind a desk with ink, quill and parchment, and wrote anything. Neither did Jesus. Nor can you prove divine inspiration. So the only thing you are left with is a CHOICE as to whether you follow the writings/ramblings of some archaic, non-scientific, largely uneducated person.
 

atpollard

Active Member
Hi atpollard,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"Under the grace of the perfect Lamb of God offered by our perfect high priest (in the order of Melchizedek, not Arron ... again, you chose Hebrews) ...
... the penalty is paid forever."


And you just before did write:

"Under our sin, we were living under a death sentence with a destiny to one day stand before a Holy God and give account ... the wages of sin is death.
Under the Law, the sacrifice on the altar purchased us a 1 year stay of execution (you are quoting Hebrews)."


If you yourself are no longer under the Law through the grace that is found in the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua, and if you yourself through that same grace are no longer under sin, why is it that you still consider that you yourself must still physically die? Being under grace, how is it that you can write and then make this your next statement?:

"We must still face physical death"

Apparently, with respect to Christians like yourself, HaSatan still retains the power of death over your life!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
The power of death does not belong to Satan, but to God.

Was the Apostle Stephen under Grace, and did he die?
Was Paul under Grace and did he die?
John? Peter?

Why should I expect to escape death?
However, because of grace, death has lost its sting. It is a mere inconvenience. A speed bump on the road to eternity.
If you plan on never tasting death, then good luck with that plan.
My personal observation is God prefers to take us THROUGH rather than AROUND things.
YMMV.
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi atpollard,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You replied to me:

"The power of death does not belong to Satan, but to God."

Actually, right here we do somewhat agree. As it is written concerning YAHWEH:

Deuteronomy 32:39

39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no elohim with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

We know that YAHWEH has the power to preserve HIS Holy Ones. Since Satan no longer has the power of death (according to your just expressed belief), is it YAHWEH then that takes the lives of Christians when they die? How could this possibly be if Yahushua paid your death penalty in your stead in order to reconcile YAHWEH to all of you? Does this reconciliation obtained by the Cross of Messiah Yahushua only last until YAHWEH decides to kill you?

You asked:

"Was the Apostle Stephen under Grace, and did he die?
Was Paul under Grace and did he die?
John? Peter?"


The vast majority of the first century believers in Messiah were martyred. I personally believe that the Apostle John remains or yet abides preserved as one of Messiah's witnesses. I also believe that Mary, the Mother of Yahushua, is still alive with John.

You further asked:

"Why should I expect to escape death?"

The record for Christians reveals that none among them escape death. They cannot escape death because of their false belief. They all believe in a substitutional Savior. If Yahushua died in your stead, perhaps HE does also now live in the stead of all Christian believers.

You made this observation:

"If you plan on never tasting death, then good luck with that plan."

It is written in Hebrews:

Hebrews 2:9

9 But we see Yahushua, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of ELOHIM should taste death for every man.

I do not believe that Yahushua tasted death in my stead. I believe that Yahushua drew me to HIS Cross so that I could understand that I did indeed die with HIM. If HE through HIS love helped me to already taste death, what need do I have to taste death again?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
So was Jesus, but we don't know if he spoke that language at all.

We do know he was an Aramaic Galilean.

If you would like I would tell you because your friendly.

Trying to make a point here, where we have a little heretical proselytizing going on at the moment.
Shalom outhouse, thank you for the response. You gave me an answer in a message that you feel His name in Hebrew should be:

"Yeshua and Yehoshua"

How did you come to that conclusion instead of Yahushua, which you rejected as His real first name?

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 

atpollard

Active Member
Shalom outhouse, thank you for the response. You gave me an answer in a message that you feel His name in Hebrew should be:

"Yeshua and Yehoshua"

How did you come to that conclusion instead of Yahushua, which you rejected as His real first name?

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
Strong says the Greek is Iēsous which is from the Hebrew
יְהוֹשׁוּעַYᵉhôwshûwaʻ,
or
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yᵉhôwshuʻa;

That reaches the limit of my ability to contribute to this particular conversation.
Good luck.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
If the sword is against Caesar, then I think Christians should temper it's use.

But if the sword is against a demonic banjee out to grab little girls, then I think Christians should swing away. Jesus loved the children, I am not a Christian but I saw Mel Gibson's masterwork movie "The Passion of Christ" and I think Gibson's genius channeled right into those times and I think Jesus was extremely brave and manly and Father to children, I think if he does come back Jesus is personally going to take a sword on such demons who dare put their grubby fingers on little girls or who even sniff them in the wrong way. Yes, I mean the Islamic extremists. First cut off the nose of such demons who dare cut off the nose of the little darlings.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Shalom outhouse, thank you for the response. You gave me an answer in a message that you feel His name in Hebrew should be:

"Yeshua and Yehoshua"

How did you come to that conclusion instead of Yahushua, which you rejected as His real first name?

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Yeshua was a common alternative form of the name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ ("Yehoshuah" – Joshua) in later books of the Hebrew Bible and among Jews of the Second Temple period. Meaning "salvation" in Hebrew, it was also the most common form of the name Jesus when he was alive hence the name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling Jesus.
 

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
Strong says the Greek is Iēsous which is from the Hebrew
יְהוֹשׁוּעַYᵉhôwshûwaʻ,
or
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yᵉhôwshuʻa;

That reaches the limit of my ability to contribute to this particular conversation.
Good luck.
Shalom atpollard and outhouse, many have looked into the spelling and pronunciation of Yeshua's name, and I would not be critical of the various Hebrew representations. I certainly would consider Yahushua an acceptable variation. A pretty exhaustive study of how to look at the various pronunciations can be found here, even though I am not in complete agreement with everything that is believed by this individual, he has done a remarkable job of putting his understanding of this to paper. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
 
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