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An Act Of War!

Latuwr

Member
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Does Christianity have any real idea of how the ELOHIM go about fighting a War should THEY decide to do so? Most Christians have no understanding that the Cross was an act of war. Consider this scripture:

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Obviously, this scripture indicates that when the ELOHIM fight, THEIR fight is to the death. THEY hold nothing back. When THEY fight, it is total warfare. The ELOHIM seek rightly for the total destruction of THEIR enemies.

If we fully understood how the ELOHIM go about fighting in a spiritual sense, would this not help us to understand how we should fight our enemies in a physical sense? What do you think? Should Christianity love Islam to death, or should Christianity fight Islam in a physical sense to a no holds bar fight to the death according to the Scriptures?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Does Christianity have any real idea of how the ELOHIM go about fighting a War should THEY decide to do so? Most Christians have no understanding that the Cross was an act of war. Consider this scripture:

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Obviously, this scripture indicates that when the ELOHIM fight, THEIR fight is to the death. THEY hold nothing back. When THEY fight, it is total warfare. The ELOHIM seek rightly for the total destruction of THEIR enemies.

If we fully understood how the ELOHIM go about fighting in a spiritual sense, would this not help us to understand how we should fight our enemies in a physical sense? What do you think? Should Christianity love Islam to death, or should Christianity fight Islam in a physical sense to a no holds bar fight to the death according to the Scriptures?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise hpartook of the same things, that ithrough death he might jdestroy kthe one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 lthrough fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16 mhelps the offspring of Abraham. 17 nto be made like his brothers in every respect, oso that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest pin the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 qwhen tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

It looks like they are talking about Christ (a preview of his coming and purpose)

Id say preview because in the begining of Hebrews, it says God became a visible image of an invisible god. So, its talking about Elohim dying (fighting death/devil) for others by partaking and being like his brother in sin/flesh.

The only war I see is the visible god fighting against death by his sacrifice to save his children from it. Its kind of circular. But there ya go
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Carlita,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Thank you for your reply!

You wrote:

So, its talking about Elohim dying (fighting death/devil) for others

Obviously, you personally have no concept that the ELOHIM fought and died in An Act of War not solely for THEMSELVES but fundamentally for THEMSELVES. Regardless of you and me, were the ELOHIM engaged in a war with the Devil when My Messiah died on the Cross? If so, how does HIS death destroy HaSatan?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

Does Christianity have any real idea of how the ELOHIM go about fighting a War should THEY decide to do so? Most Christians have no understanding that the Cross was an act of war. Consider this scripture:

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Obviously, this scripture indicates that when the ELOHIM fight, THEIR fight is to the death. THEY hold nothing back. When THEY fight, it is total warfare. The ELOHIM seek rightly for the total destruction of THEIR enemies.

If we fully understood how the ELOHIM go about fighting in a spiritual sense, would this not help us to understand how we should fight our enemies in a physical sense? What do you think? Should Christianity love Islam to death, or should Christianity fight Islam in a physical sense to a no holds bar fight to the death according to the Scriptures?

Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr

I don't know how you are getting to war, especially with Islam, out of this verse.

It is merely saying his death (and rising) took away the power of death.

*
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Outhouse,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

You wrote:

The cross is the sign of death, not war. It was a torture rack.

Are you sure, Outhouse? Is your statement here involved in proselytizing others to accept your position? As far as I know, this is not allowed at this forum! So, you need to remain silent unless you are willing to share scriptures which state that the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua is not an act of war.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Psychoslice,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

Shabbat Shalom!

It is indeed amazing to me that some like yourself imagine that My Messiah Yahushua suffered and died as a metaphor for you to realize your true self. It is true that you yourself barring death by violence that you will continue to grow older until you eventually get sick and physically die. That is your true self.

My Messiah did not die from getting sick. My Messiah died through martyrdom. So, why do you imagine that HIS death is a metaphor for all those who grow old and eventually get sick and die?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Are you sure, Outhouse?

Yes quite sure to he point of certainty.

Unlike your position in which you have no credible sources to substantiate, I do.

A man was crucified on this torture rack. Because later people interpret the history for their own needs, does not change the original intent.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Are you sure, Outhouse? Is your statement here involved in proselytizing others to accept your position? As far as I know, this is not allowed at this forum! So, you need to remain silent unless you are willing to share scriptures which state that the Cross of My Messiah Yahushua is not an act of war.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
Yes, Outhouse is sure. It is not a weapon, but a torture/execution instrument. It is not about war at all. At the times the gospels, etc were written, Christianity was breaking away from Judaism and the Romans were still a bit irritated with their attitudes as well. The war talk is to promote religious terrorism. Thanks to this imagery, libraries were burned to the ground, families and entire civilizations were destroyed, knowledge suppressed ... all because of a war that was only happening in their heads.
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Ingledsva,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asserted to me:

"I don't know how you are getting to war, especially with Islam, out of this verse.
It is merely saying his death (and rising) took away the power of death."


The Apostle Paul clearly teaches that death is an enemy, and that death itself as an enemy remains to be destroyed (see 1 Corinthians 15:24-26). So, Hebrews 2:14 does not speak concerning the destruction of death as you imagine and assert. Hebrews 2:14 does speak concerning the destruction of the being who possessed the power (kratos) of death prior to the Cross of My Messiah. This destruction did occur through the Cross and through the Cross alone. It would behoove seekers to discover exactly how and why this destruction occurred.

I do agree that the death and resurrection of My Messiah Yahushua caused all power (exousia) to be given to the resurrected Yahushua (see Matthew 28:18). My Messiah is presently in the process of exercising that power (see 1 Corinthians 15:24).

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Outhouse,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You assert without citing any scriptural evidence (is this not the scriptural debate forum?) that My Messiah died on a torture rack. Without scriptures, your dogma is no different than all the other systems of believe which actually have no basis in reality.

Even so, I am glad to see that you understand and accept to the point of certainty that My Messiah was crucified and killed according to what to you are credible sources. Of course, I view credible sources on this issue to be 1st Century writings and accounts and also Old Testament Scriptures. So, please feel free to share your credible sources. If not, then I will leave it to others to see the insincerity of your pronouncements on this thread.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Kelly of the Phoenix,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You asserted also without any scriptural evidence this:

"Yes, Outhouse is sure. It is not a weapon, but a torture/execution instrument."

The Apostle Paul clearly teaches that the Cross of Messiah is (dunamis) power of ELOHIM:

1 Corinthians 1:17-19


17 For Messiah sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Messiah should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is power of ELOHIM.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

You yourself are one of those who view as foolishness the idea that the Cross is an instrument of war; yet, Paul, contrary to you and others here, teaches that the Cross as exercised by Messiah is much more that just an instrument of torture. Don't you think that is would be wise for you to come to understand exactly how the Cross should be preached as (the) power of ELOHIM?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 

atpollard

Active Member
Latuwr,
Respectfully, nobody finds the tone of Outhouse's posts more annoying than I do, but you are not really being honest here.
He doesn't need a scripture, it is the definition of the word.

Merriam-Webster: Cross
1a : a structure consisting of an upright with a transverse beam used especially by the ancient Romans for execution.


You are redefining a word in the English Language with no reference or support.

So, let's all play that game:
I choose to define 'cross' as a soft fuzzy kitten.
"So Jesus defeated death by snuggling up with it and that is exactly how Christianity should deal with Islam."

Now I get to challenge YOU to find a scripture that says that a cross is not a soft fuzzy kitten.

[Communication requires both honesty and good faith.]

Scripture on the crucifixion:
Matthew 27:32-50
Mark 15:21-37
Luke 23:26-46
John 19:1-37

It sounds like an execution to me.
 
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atpollard

Active Member
Consider this scripture:

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Obviously, this scripture indicates that when the ELOHIM fight, THEIR fight is to the death. THEY hold nothing back. When THEY fight, it is total warfare. The ELOHIM seek rightly for the total destruction of THEIR enemies.
I respectfully see something different in that.

Just as we (people, human beings) are made of flesh and blood ...
He (Jesus Christ) also chose to become flesh and blood [setting aside his infinite divine glory for a brief period to experience life as a man, among men]
for the purpose that His death (the death of sinless deity incarnate) would destroy the POWER of death ... the power that 'the accuser' holds over human beings (like in Job).

Under our sin, we were living under a death sentence with a destiny to one day stand before a Holy God and give account ... the wages of sin is death.
Under the Law, the sacrifice on the altar purchased us a 1 year stay of execution (you are quoting Hebrews).
Under the grace of the perfect Lamb of God offered by our perfect high priest (in the order of Melchizedek, not Arron ... again, you chose Hebrews) ...
... the penalty is paid forever. The accuser can accuse, and the High Priest can say "So, what's your point? That sin has been forgiven. Washed white as snow by my blood."

We must still face physical death, but Jesus resurrection promises that physical death will leave no permanent harm to us.
The devil has lost his ultimate power.
Jesus did not win a battle ... he won the war ... for us ... forever.

Hebrews 2:14 is a big deal, but it is NOT about killing Muslims (or anybody else).
It is about the victory of God's love over death and how that releases us from fear and frees us to live, love and serve without any performance based concerns.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
, I view credible sources on this issue to be 1st Century writings and accounts and also Old Testament Scriptures.

Not even those say in context what you are trying to posit

You are going rogue, and your views to any apologist are heretical to orthodoxy.

Your views are not credible to academia either.
 

Latuwr

Member
Hi Outhouse,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You wrote:

"The text is not always credible history, nor is it ever a credible source on its own merit."

Ok, Outhouse, why do you believe that My Messiah was killed on a torture stake? What makes you so certain that the torture stake is only a means of execution? If you believe as you have stated, then you yourself give credence that My Messiah Yahushua died on the torture stake. If you believe that, which is a dogmatic position, why do you not believe in My Messiah Yahushua?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

Sincerely, Latuwr
 
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