Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe you are basing your belief on a misunderstanding of the Qu'ran because Jesus has indicated His divinity in many verses.
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Did Jesus Claim to be God?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
I believe you are basing your belief on a misunderstanding of the Qu'ran because Jesus has indicated His divinity in many verses.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Jesus never claimed to be God at anytime. Scripture tells us that God is the God and father of Jesus. So what is Jesus saying when he said, I and my father are one?
Jesus would NEVER say he was his father. But he would say he is "like" his father. He is the same in purpose and mind and will. Scripture also tells us that God was working "through" His son. So many verses on that. Jesus had to be like us. The messiah had to have our nature to conquer it.
Look at Paul's letters on what he tells us about God and Jesus. Just in Romans alone.... Romans 1v3 tells us that Jesus was from the seed of David and with our nature. So many other books tell us that. 2 Sam 7 tells us the same thing when David was told about him.
Jesus is not God and he was and still is subject to "his" father.
outhouse
Atheistically
Probably true.
He is to many.
its fine you don't believe, I don't. But he lives in many minds.
Jesus lives alive through the pages of Scripture.
Today is just as Jesus said - Luke 21:11 - and deliverance is getting near - Luke 21:28 - near for the humble ' sheep'-like people alive on earth - Matthew 25:31-33
Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill by delivering them through the coming great tribulation - Revelation 7:14 - to live on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Today is just as Jesus said - Luke 21:11 - and deliverance is getting near - Luke 21:28 - near for the humble ' sheep'-like people alive on earth - Matthew 25:31-33
Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill by delivering them through the coming great tribulation - Revelation 7:14 - to live on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
My belief is based on a careful study of God's Word, and my belief is shared by millions of people who have studied what the Bible actually says about Jesus, rather than accept what others tell them.
Muffled
Jesus in me
How is it that you made a careful study and I made a careful study and we came out with opposite understandings of the Bible?. I believe it is due to the fact that I have the Holy Spirit to guide meinto understanding . Do you claim the same thing?
I believe the number of people who believe something does not help to prove it is true.
I believe I am glad that you are keeping an open mind. I keep an open mind and have debated this extensively but have never found anyone who has what I would call a cogent argument.
Muffled
Jesus in me
You are responding to my verse that says that He did. Stating your conclusion is an a priori argument.
I believe He is identifying the oneness of God as the Father and Son.
Your conclusion does not follow from the premises.
Only God can raise the dead. Jesus raised the dead.
Only God can forgive men their sins. Jesus forgave men there sins.
Let us take a look at Philippians 2:5- 7 "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD,DID NOT CONSIDER IT ROBBERY TO TO BE EQUAL TO GOD, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant , and coming in the likeness of men."
Let us also keep in mind Isaiah 43:10-15. After careful examination of these scriptures, there can be no doubt that Jesus is fully God!
Only God can forgive men their sins. Jesus forgave men there sins.
Let us take a look at Philippians 2:5- 7 "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD,DID NOT CONSIDER IT ROBBERY TO TO BE EQUAL TO GOD, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant , and coming in the likeness of men."
Let us also keep in mind Isaiah 43:10-15. After careful examination of these scriptures, there can be no doubt that Jesus is fully God!
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Not true. Alot of people raised the dead. God worked through many people. God manifestation. The apostles raised the dead, along with some prophets of the OT. Even with Jesus, scripture tells us that God worked through his son.
Again not true. Jesus DID forgive sins, yes. Also some angels did too. Esp. in the time of Moses.
Very bad translation. But anyhow, look at the next line. But made himself of no reputation....
You serious? chapter 43 is about God. Jesus is never fully God. That totally degrades our Creator! Bible says he had a son. It is the son of God. Not God the son.
Jesus said He had power to raise Himself from the grave. John 2:19 & John 10:18.
You need to read Luke 5:21 "Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
You should also read Mark 2:7 " Why does this man speak blasphemies like this? who can forgive sins but God alone?"
Jesus is the Creator and Isaiah 43 tells us that Jesus is the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel.
NathanShepard8888
Member
Jesus is not God.
'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20.17
'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" John 20.17
If Jesus is not God,, then you must think He is a mere sinner like you and me?
And if you think Jesus is a sinner, you better find yourself another Savior.
Romans 3:23 says, " For all have sinned and fall short the glory of God."
Do you think Jesus is a sinner,, like you and me?
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Scripture tells us that Jesus was like us in nature. Yes, God was his father, but he was made like us. Same nature, prone to sin. Jesus could have sinned if he wanted to, but chose not to. He wanted to his father's will and not his. The Messiah had to be like us in every way. It had to be someone to could conquer sin or sin in the flesh. He was also from the seed of David. Hebrews 2 tells us that Jesus was just like us. If Jesus was God, what would be the point of conquering sin....
How does your statement stack up against Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short the Glory of God."????
If Jesus was created as you claim,, that would make Romans 3:23 UNTRUE!. So,, you are in error. Jesus has always been. He has no beginning and no end!
moorea944
Well-Known Member
The scribes and Pharisees said that. All authority was given to Jesus. The angel of God's presence could forgive sins too. We read that with Moses
The Jews were saying that. But remember that Jesus was "given" ALL authority in everything.
No it doesnt. It is talking about God, NOT Jesus! Read it again! Jesus wasnt born yet.
Wow, I dont know how you get that out of those verses.
The true meaning, then, of John 2v19 is that Jesus makes a parable-like statement about His nature then and in the future. But once the Father resurrected Him and He became Mediator and High Priest, He indeed raised up a body of believers, the Temple of God, of which we are part. It' NOT talking about Jesus raising himself up. What's the point of that, esp. when the bible says that God raised Jesus up.
NathanShepard8888
Member
No. Jesus was without sin. The only man to accomplish that.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Paul's not talking about Jesus. Jesus didnt sin. He's talking to the Brothers and sisters of Rome.
"As I claim"? Scripture is clear on who he was. Plus, Romans 3 is true if you understand it and stop my Jesus God. And Jesus had a beginning. God didnt.
NathanShepard8888
Member
In many verses? You cannot list one where Jesus said he was God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I already did but you wish to be literal about it. If I call you a mensch instead of calling you a human being will you refuse to believe I called you a human being?
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
There is not a single, unequivocal, statement in the bible, even when it has been highly changed and corrupted, where Jesus proclaims himself to be God. It's as simple as that. And I think many people on this thread have pointed that out. Having said this, what about the concept of the trinity?
We are led to believe by Christian preachers that Jesus the person, the Holy spirit and the Father, are all one. A three part representation of one God, not three separate Gods. Yet, when Jesus is asked about the last hour, he says: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
If Jesus IS the Father, should he not know the answer to this question?
We are led to believe by Christian preachers that Jesus the person, the Holy spirit and the Father, are all one. A three part representation of one God, not three separate Gods. Yet, when Jesus is asked about the last hour, he says: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
If Jesus IS the Father, should he not know the answer to this question?