"JEHOVAH'S" witnesses and Revelation 12:17

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
But it isn't about faith where opponents of the JWs are concerned. I do not talk about faith. We can prove they lie and when people lie they abuse something. Abuse is wrong. Isn't it?

I never had that experience. I have very nice JW friends and the ones I met are nice as well. I actually have no personal reason to harbor negative feelings against them. I try not to, even if they did do something to me.

As for other people, I don't keep up with the news or anything like that. Online, maybe that is where people show their true self; I don't know.

Have they lied in general or is it something you personally experience?

djhwoodwerks · Dec 10, 2015

Carlita said:
What causes you to have this passion to discredit the teachings of other people when those teachings are not like correcting an algebraic problem. These teachings ARE.JW life.

If they are wrong, let your god decide or approach it in a constructive manner. Throwing verses does not change the intent behind posting them. If anything, they turn people away.

I believe it is every Christians responsibility to bring to light lies taught in the name of God.

Jude 1:20-23 (ESVST) 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

Carlita said:
I never had that experience.

You never had what experience?

I have very nice JW friends and the ones I met are nice as well.

I am sure God isn't looking for nice. Is God not looking for true?

I actually have no personal reason to harbor negative feelings against them.

I don't have negative feelings about them. In fact, if not for them I would not be having the time of my life! I love the JWs. And if the governing body members prove human, I love them too.

I try not to, even if they did do something to me.

Ys, I've heard it before. I don't think it is true but thank you for talking to me.

As for other people, I don't keep up with the news or anything like that. Online, maybe that is where people show their true self; I don't know.

I don't either.

Have they lied in general or is it something you personally experience?

They say they alone know what is written in the Bible but they don't even know Greek or Hebrew. Not that that would help. Also that millions now living will never die. That is not true and they have not apologized yet for that whopper of a lie.

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
What if a person is certain that a particular teaching can and does stubble a little one who puts faith in Christ? Should we be quiet? If yes, then why do you think so?

It's not what is said, it is how. If I felt I had the correct teaching of paganism and everyone else that disagrees with my interpretation is false, I wouldn't start posting articles and historical evidence of what "real paganism" is. I also wouldn't go out and tell pagans or Pagans that they are wrong because how I see paganism is completely different than how modern pagans see their faith. I don't have that "mine is right and yours is wrong" passion.

Coming from another view, my faith, say paganism, does say that "paganism are folk customs that predate abrahamic religions and in some people are polytheistic while other families and cultures it is not." So, when I see someone doing new age paganism, I get a little annoyed, yes...but to prove them wrong by quoting things that are my interpretation and not theirs! That's totally disrespectful.

Is that a Abrahamic thing? I see some Muslims do that too, have this passion to "correct" their brother or sister of the Creator. Is it a Christian thing? The Catholic Church does it just as much as many "fundamental" Christians.

I notice the only ones that seem not to do this don't, not just because of their religion, but because how they are raised and see the world. Which, usually, are people from other countries I noticed. Americans seem to take hold of this "freedom of speech" and march with their opinions and in some cases place it on others.

If JW wants to believe what they believe, let them be. I have ill issues with them opposing their belief on others as visa versa. I'm just not talking with them right now to really confront them about it. What is it about this passion of correction that seems so negative?

Will it save them from their eternal destiny if either sides take each other's "advice" into consideration?

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

I forgot. Have THEY forgotten to apologize?

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1925.php

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

Carlita said:
It's not what is said, it is how. If I felt I had the correct teaching of paganism and everyone else that disagrees with my interpretation is false, I wouldn't start posting articles and historical evidence of what "real paganism" is. I also wouldn't go out and tell pagans or Pagans that they are wrong because how I see paganism is completely different than how modern pagans see their faith. I don't have that "mine is right and yours is wrong" passion.

Coming from another view, my faith, say paganism, does say that "paganism are folk customs that predate abrahamic religions and in some people are polytheistic while other families and cultures it is not." So, when I see someone doing new age paganism, I get a little annoyed, yes...but to prove them wrong by quoting things that are my interpretation and not theirs! That's totally disrespectful.

Is that a Abrahamic thing? I see some Muslims do that too, have this passion to "correct" their brother or sister of the Creator. Is it a Christian thing? The Catholic Church does it just as much as many "fundamental" Christians.

I notice the only ones that seem not to do this don't, not just because of their religion, but because how they are raised and see the world. Which, usually, are people from other countries I noticed. Americans seem to take hold of this "freedom of speech" and march with their opinions and in some cases place it on others.

If JW wants to believe what they believe, let them be. I have ill issues with them opposing their belief on others as visa versa. I'm just not talking with them right now to really confront them about it. What is it about this passion of correction that seems so negative?

Will it save them from their eternal destiny if either sides take each other's "advice" into consideration?

Who is not letting the Jehovah's Witnesses "be"?

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

djhwoodwerks said:
I believe it is every Christians responsibility to bring to light lies taught in the name of God.

Jude 1:20-23 (ESVST) 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. What is that passion or, how do I see it, lie a strong urge to point out what you interpret as incorrect? Posting scripture does not help. JW does the same thing with their scripture. It's a draw if you use scripture to prove your point.

Let me hear your opinion instead. Is it a Christian thing that some of you have this urge to correct people?

I mean, when I was a practicing Catholic I went to a Bible study meeting predominately protestant. The young guy that was teaching said, at the end of the study, "look here." He shoved an open Bible in front of me and pointed to "don't pray to idols" scripture. (Can't remember the verse). I was shocked. I don't pray to idols. I never did. He doesn't know me. I don't know him.

What was it about this passion to show me his truth without even talking to me first. He just knew "I am Catholic" and that was it.

It's context, guys. Not content.

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
Who is not letting the Jehovah's Witnesses "be"?

When talking against JW teachings, you're talking against them. (I don't believe people are isolated from their faith). Instead of letting them believe as they believe, I see people talk against their faith and not just letting them be. (Likewise the other way around) Just a pet peeve.

Nietzsche · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
Please remember the rule that is true that "no comment" means you are hiding something. Everyone knows that. Hiding is sneaky like a fox or like a devil.

..

That's one of the most stupid things I've ever seen you say, which honestly impresses the **** out of me. "No comment" does not mean someone is hiding something. I'm hardly a friend of JWs or their view on history, but I don't try to put words in their mouth.

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

Carlita said:
When talking against JW teachings, you're talking against them. (I don't believe people are isolated from their faith). Instead of letting them believe as they believe, I see people talk against their faith and not just letting them be. (Likewise the other way around) Just a pet peeve.

If everyone was like that then the whole world would be Nazi. Yes?

Hockeycowboy · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
We can prove they lie

You can, huh? (How convenient to say this, once they've gone!) Prove it.

JWs have proven to me, in one instance, that many other Christians do, at least the knowledgeable ones....most may act out of ignorance, but it's still a perpetrated lie.
I'm talking about the Nativity scene, at Christmas. It's an outright lie, showing the Magi visiting Jesus in a manger. How many Churches depict it this way? But the Bible explicitly states Jesus was in a "house" when they found him! (Matthew 2:11) And calls Jesus a "young child."

You can debate and justify the paganism tied in with Christmas all you want, but the false Nativity scene, in Churches even, cannot be justified, Because you're right: lying is abuse, when it's obvious. Luke 16:10 applies.

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

Nietzsche said:
..

That's one of the most stupid things I've ever seen you say, which honestly impresses the **** out of me. "No comment" does not mean someone is hiding something. I'm hardly a friend of JWs or their view on history, but I don't try to put words in their mouth.

Haha. Not always but when a public figure says it it means they are hiding something. Am I wrong?

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

Hockeycowboy said:
You can, huh? (How convenient to say this, once they've gone!) Prove it.

JWs have proven to me, in one instance, that many other Christians do, at least the knowledgeable ones....most may act out of ignorance, but it's still a perpetrated lie.
I'm talking about the Nativity scene, at Christmas. It's an outright lie, showing the Magi visiting Jesus in a manger. How many Churches depict it this way? But the Bible explicitly states Jesus was in a "house" when they found him! (Matthew 2:11) And calls Jesus a "young child."

You can debate and justify the paganism tied in with Christmas all you want, but the false Nativity scene, in Churches even, cannot be justified, Because you're right: lying is abuse, when it's obvious. Luke 16:10 applies.

WOW. OK. Lol I wish I could stay for more bull but I have to go

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
You never had what experience?

I haven't had that experience of JW lying to me or to anyone else. Who did they lie to? How? Was this your experience? On the news?

savagewind said:
I am sure God isn't looking for nice. Is God not looking for true?

True people don't have to be nice in God's eyes? They go together.

savagewind said:
I don't have negative feelings about them. In fact, if not for them I would not be having the time of my life! I love the JWs. And if the governing body members prove human, I love them too

I believe the teachings of a person's faith makes up who that person is. So if I talk ill about Christ, I am talking ill of all Christians. That's me.

savagewind said:
Ys, I've heard it before. I don't think it is true but thank you for talking to me.

I'd ask where; but, then that may be taken as an offense too. Of course, it's not meant to be. No one believes me. I am very opinionated. If I am rude, I'd rather people to ask me about it. I hate assumptions.

savagewind said:
They say they alone know what is written in the Bible but they don't even know Greek or Hebrew. Not that that would help. Also that millions now living will never die. That is not true and they have not apologized yet for that whopper of a l

I don't know what to say. For me personally, and personally only, I never had that annoyance of pagans believing the wrong thing. Everyone has their own beliefs. It's alright to be annoyed or irritated. I personally feel it's not alright for any person (when I talk in general, I am not talking to you; I hate when people assume that) to talk ill of another person's faith (as explained above). That is me.

When I make indirect statements or in general, it is not targeting you or the person I am talking to. I am literally saying in general some people do X or Y. If the person I am speaking with (any person) doesn't fall into that category, I hope they don't take offense. Unless I say something direct to the person I'm speaking with.

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

@savagewind and @djhwoodwerks

Post 27 wraps up pretty much my issue with the topic. It's a personal experience and pet peeve.

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
If everyone was like that then the whole world would be Nazi. Yes?

What do you mean?

EDIT

I was saying, for example, if I talked against Christ, I am talking against Christians. I ask questions that seem like it belittles Christianity; and, that is not my intention. They are honest questions that no believer really wants to answer. People get so knocked down on RF that having a provocative conversation about ones own faith is near to impossible.

DavyCrocket2003 · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
Back to the topic!

It seems to me that it is the Watchtower which wages war against all those who keep God's commands and who witness Jesus.

The Watchtower urges people to read the Bible and gain understanding of God's commandments. They teach us to seek God's will and God's kingdom. I don't think they are waging "war against all those who keep God's commands."

Nietzsche · Dec 10, 2015

Hockeycowboy said:
You can, huh? (How convenient to say this, once they've gone!) Prove it.

JWs have proven to me, in one instance, that many other Christians do, at least the knowledgeable ones....most may act out of ignorance, but it's still a perpetrated lie.
I'm talking about the Nativity scene, at Christmas. It's an outright lie, showing the Magi visiting Jesus in a manger. How many Churches depict it this way? But the Bible explicitly states Jesus was in a "house" when they found him! (Matthew 2:11) And calls Jesus a "young child."

You can debate and justify the paganism tied in with Christmas all you want, but the false Nativity scene, in Churches even, cannot be justified, Because you're right: lying is abuse, when it's obvious. Luke 16:10 applies.

...

Yes, it can. It's called "2000 years of recreations". Visual elements are added or taken away while the meat of the story is unchanged. This is like a Star Trek nerd getting pissed that the Enterprise of the wrong shade of gray.

savagewind · Dec 10, 2015

I am sorry. The errand that would take me away was very much shorter than I thought. I am back, Aren't y'll glad?

Carlita said:
I haven't had that experience of JW lying to me or to anyone else. Who did they lie to? How? Was this your experience? On the news?

I think that them saying The Holy Spirit is found only with them is a lie. I have not experienced a personal lie coming from any JW.

True people don't have to be nice in God's eyes? They go together.

I could write an essay on this one. I won't though. True and nice do not go together. I am not even sure your meaning of "nice". Jesus said, "get behind me Satan", which is not nice and he told the women with the daughter to be healed that he did not come for her. Not nice.

I believe the teachings of a person's faith makes up who that person is. So if I talk ill about Christ, I am talking ill of all Christians. That's me.

I do not know what "teachings of a perosn's faith" means so I won't comment because I don't know how.

I'd ask where; but, then that may be taken as an offense too.

Very interesting, I have no idea what it means.

Of course, it's not meant to be. No one believes me. I am very opinionated. If I am rude, I'd rather people to ask me about it. I hate assumptions.

I hate asusmptions too. So you hate the assumption that in the past people were taught to beleive that millions now living will never die. Correct?

I don't know what to say.

Haha

For me personally, and personally only, I never had that annoyance of pagans believing the wrong thing. Everyone has their own beliefs. It's alright to be annoyed or irritated. I personally feel it's not alright for any person (when I talk in general, I am not talking to you; I hate when people assume that) to talk ill of another person's faith (as explained above). That is me.

OK! I have no trouble with people believing the wrong thing. I have a huge problem with people teaching the wrong thing. Don't you?

When I make indirect statements or in general, it is not targeting you or the person I am talking to. I am literally saying in general some people do X or Y. If the person I am speaking with (any person) doesn't fall into that category, I hope they don't take offense. Unless I say something direct to the person I'm speaking with.

I do not know that the thread posts are speaking with any person. It looks general to me.

Unveiled Artist · Dec 10, 2015

savagewind said:
Ys, I've heard it before. I don't think it is true but thank you for talking to me.

I really don't like trying to justify my feelings on things. I am very opinionated. If someone takes what I say as an offense, I'd rather than ask me what I mean by whatever they are upset about. I ask questions that I really want honest answers for. Many believers are picked on (especially Christians) and it makes it hard to have conversations.

That and I'm just thinking of my brother and grandmother; so, I'm not in my right state right now. I just have nothing better to do but to be here am distract myself. I have I think two or three people ignore me so far. I guess I'm just ignorant.

I'm sorry, I just don't share your and @djhwoodwerks view on JW. They may or may not be wrong; and, it's not my place to belittle their teachings.

"JEHOVAH'S" witnesses and Revelation 12:17

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