Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
I was reading the Beliefnet blurb on Buddhism, and I really like it, but I am not especially pro-life. The site was very clear about Buddhists being pro-life. Are there pro-choice Buddhists?
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Pro-choice Buddhists?
- Thread starter Sand Dancer
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I haven't read in the Sutras the Buddha advocated any type of killing regardless the age. What source? That's a new one on me.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm pro choice. Not that I actually support abortion, I'm actually against it, but the fact of what people do to their children after they are born is unsettling to the point that abortion would make a more compassionate alternative.
In NYC alone, there are several very recent cases of mothers throwing out their infants out the window to their deaths.
I remember reading about in India of how in past cases, fully born babies were thrown into trash bins by their mothers which caused me to change my stance from pro life to abortion.
It was a matter of compassion involving things that simply cannot be controlled in itself where an abortion would provide a less brutal and painful means to an end.
In NYC alone, there are several very recent cases of mothers throwing out their infants out the window to their deaths.
I remember reading about in India of how in past cases, fully born babies were thrown into trash bins by their mothers which caused me to change my stance from pro life to abortion.
It was a matter of compassion involving things that simply cannot be controlled in itself where an abortion would provide a less brutal and painful means to an end.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Okay, I totally get that. Especially if one believes in rebirths, the fetus' soul will go into another body. Is that correct?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No.
I have my personal take on rebirth and a type of continuation via
inter-relationships as It applies to all forms and phenomina, but it's strictly provisional and stops short of belief.
Buddhism does not, or should not entertain beliefs and other subjective nuances like souls and rebirth/reincarnation and such and henceforth consider such things as actuality.
Even that which arguably can be taken as an educated guess such as my own, it's not a part of practice, but that which comes of practice, which is why things such as the metaphysical and phenomenal tends to intertwine such as it does.
Souls and such seems far too cavalier anyways in addressing abortion through a base reasoning that it will just simply go into another body or existence, hence no harm no foul. Alone, such a view could lead to further negative repercussions overall, as it would devalue life as it presently is for a trade off what essentally lies in the realm of the subjective. Religious Fanaticism makes a good real world example.
More back on topic. ...
I just see this (abortion) as an available option without recourse that some people can use in lieu of engaging in more drastic and brutal alternatives to "solving" their problems, being that infanticide is essentally something that can't ever be stopped from itself from happining, as there are people who are going to do it anyways. One way or another.
Its a sad but realistic view as I see things.
Medical abortion (not late term) seems to be a more compassionate alternative overall (imv) for addressing some facts in life that are just not controllable nor solvable as it stands at present.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Oh, I went to a class on Buddhism, and they talked about rebirth instead of reincarnation. I guess I will do more study. I didn't mean to make it seem cavalier. My take is not that way at all.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think a lot of the rebirth and even reincarnation aspects came into play with monastics who simply happened to add things in over the course of time and expressed their interpretations as they practiced. While notions are certainly intriguing, for which I'm even privy to some extent, there still remains the focus by which one practices Buddhism as prescribed, noting the Four Noble Truths and The Eightfold Path to help deal with suffering directly and seeing things for what they actually are as human beings.
Bottom line is, It's really up to you to see things for yourself ! :0]
Incidentally, I never took you as being cavalier concerning abortion in the first place. It was very kind of you to clarify yourself all the same although It wasn't nessessary in this regard.
Kartari
Active Member
Hi there,
Thirza, you do have it right. It is true that one might or might not believe in rebirth as they see fit (though a disbelief is more typical of Western Buddhists, as opposed to more traditional Asian Buddhists). But rebirth has been an intrinsic concept within the Buddha Dharma since the religion's earliest beginnings. According to the earliest written suttas (which, granted, were written down a few centuries after the Buddha's passing), as well as knowledgeable Buddhist scholars like Thanissaro Bhikkhu, the Buddha's motivation for attaining enlightenment was based on his desire to find a way to end the endless cycle of birth and death. More convincingly, it is a fact that reincarnation was a given in the Buddha's time and culture, something as generally and solidly believed in as the fact that we eat and breathe to survive. While the Buddha criticized the idea of permanent selves, he did not do away with the idea of cyclical returning for sentient beings. So the evidence suggests that the Buddha did espouse rebirth as part of a correct worldview. And it is correct to say that rebirth, rather than reincarnation, is the norm within Buddhism (though cases of belief in reincarnation do exist alongside of rebirth within a few Buddhist schools, such as in the Tibetan schools, though the understanding is different from Hindu ideas of reincarnation).
As for Buddhism being pro-life, I saw that a while back on Bnet as well, but I am not sure where that came from to be honest. While I might not be surprised to find pro-life leanings among traditional Asian Buddhists, this is just a guess based on what I know about traditional Buddhism. But pro-life/pro-choice is not an issue typically raised by Buddhist figures like the Dalai Lama, to my knowledge. Personally, and speaking not as a traditional Buddhist, I am pro-choice up to two months of pregnancy, after which time the nervous system begins to develop in the fetus and the capacity for pain might perhaps begin. I'm not highly medically knowledgeable on the matter, but my concern is that an abortion could cause suffering beyond that point to the fetus (whereas this is impossible without a nervous system prior to that).
Thirza, you do have it right. It is true that one might or might not believe in rebirth as they see fit (though a disbelief is more typical of Western Buddhists, as opposed to more traditional Asian Buddhists). But rebirth has been an intrinsic concept within the Buddha Dharma since the religion's earliest beginnings. According to the earliest written suttas (which, granted, were written down a few centuries after the Buddha's passing), as well as knowledgeable Buddhist scholars like Thanissaro Bhikkhu, the Buddha's motivation for attaining enlightenment was based on his desire to find a way to end the endless cycle of birth and death. More convincingly, it is a fact that reincarnation was a given in the Buddha's time and culture, something as generally and solidly believed in as the fact that we eat and breathe to survive. While the Buddha criticized the idea of permanent selves, he did not do away with the idea of cyclical returning for sentient beings. So the evidence suggests that the Buddha did espouse rebirth as part of a correct worldview. And it is correct to say that rebirth, rather than reincarnation, is the norm within Buddhism (though cases of belief in reincarnation do exist alongside of rebirth within a few Buddhist schools, such as in the Tibetan schools, though the understanding is different from Hindu ideas of reincarnation).
As for Buddhism being pro-life, I saw that a while back on Bnet as well, but I am not sure where that came from to be honest. While I might not be surprised to find pro-life leanings among traditional Asian Buddhists, this is just a guess based on what I know about traditional Buddhism. But pro-life/pro-choice is not an issue typically raised by Buddhist figures like the Dalai Lama, to my knowledge. Personally, and speaking not as a traditional Buddhist, I am pro-choice up to two months of pregnancy, after which time the nervous system begins to develop in the fetus and the capacity for pain might perhaps begin. I'm not highly medically knowledgeable on the matter, but my concern is that an abortion could cause suffering beyond that point to the fetus (whereas this is impossible without a nervous system prior to that).
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Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I've not experienced a clear preference for pro-life among the Buddhists I've met in the UK. It's a tricky issue, sanctity of life v. self-determination, and so on. Personally I am undecided.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Nice posts, all! Thanks!
wintersolstice
Member
It's an intriguing question and I don't believe I have seen the issue specifically discussed in any reading I've done on Buddhism. One thing that stands out for me in HH Dalai Lama's teaching is that he does not use "always" or "never" terms so I would think that there would be many factors about an individual situation that would be taken into consideration.