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Can I contradict God?

FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Milton Platt said:
Here ya go......
“Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please” (Isaiah 46:9-10).
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Yes God knows how he started the universe from the beginning and how it'll end, that doesn't mean he knows what i'm going to do by tomorrow.

Milton Platt said:
“Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD” (Psalm 139:4).
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Yes true, he knows the word before reaching our tongues, but it doesn't mean he knows what i'm going to talk by tomorrow.

Milton Platt said:
“My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. How precious to me are your thoughts, God! How vast is the sum of them! Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand—when I awake, I am still with you” (Psalm 139:15-16).

“Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?” (Job 37:16).

“Whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20).

How's that?
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None indicates knowing our next plans
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
Yes God knows how he started the universe from the beginning and how it'll end, that doesn't mean he knows what i'm going to do by tomorrow.



Yes true, he knows the word before reaching our tongues, but it doesn't mean he knows what i'm going to talk by tomorrow.

Yes, it does. When exactly does he then suddenly realize what you are going to say? One hour before? 10 minutes?


None indicates knowing our next plans
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You are reading selectively. 1John says he knows everything.
 
D

dogfishparisi

Member
Milton Platt said:
But if it is supposed to be divinely inspired word of god, then why would it be impossible to understand for all but a few select people who have spent their lives studying ancient texts and languages? Is god implying that only advanced scholarship in ancient languages and civilizations will allow you to know what the heck he was saying? Why would he not want to be universally understood?
As to the scholars, you are lumping two different things together as to what they believe. Do they all believe the authors WERE divinely inspired.....or do they mostly believe the authors THOUGHT the were divinely inspired??? There is a vast difference between the two claims and you are throwing them together. Add to that there is a vast number of scholars who would tell you that they are just stories and the god they speak of is just mythology. I can THINK that I am devastatingly handsome and have a net worth of billions, but unfortunately, the facts say otherwise. The fact that an anonymous person ages ago thought god told them something holds no water at all.
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I do not believe that the texts are infallible. Nothing of human hands is perfect. Men err, this is reality. Whether or not the texts where, or where thought to be, or thought not to be divinely inspired makes no difference since the final act of transcription was done by human hands.
Your point is more about the God concept, whereas an omnipotent and omniscient God who was in touch with prophets would no doubt leave clear and concise texts. We could talk for ages on that one... but everything is not so cut and dry.
Each individuals God concept skews the discussion, because we all have different ideas as to what is- or is thought to be- God.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
dogfishparisi said:
I do not believe that the texts are infallible. Nothing of human hands is perfect. Men err, this is reality. Whether or not the texts where, or where thought to be, or thought not to be divinely inspired makes no difference since the final act of transcription was done by human hands.
Your point is more about the God concept, whereas an omnipotent and omniscient God who was in touch with prophets would no doubt leave clear and concise texts. We could talk for ages on that one... but everything is not so cut and dry.
Each individuals God concept skews the discussion, because we all have different ideas as to what is- or is thought to be- God.
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But then my point stands. There is no way to be absolutely sure of either the accuracy of what is written, or of one's interpretation of things that are not clear. There is no way to know absolutely when something should be accepted literally or should be considered allegorical.
 
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dogfishparisi

Member
Milton Platt said:
But then my point stands. There is no way to be absolutely sure of either the accuracy of what is written, or of one's interpretation of things that are not clear. There is no way to know absolutely when something should be accepted literally or should be considered allegorical.
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In my opinion it is easy to see that scripture was intended in ways both literal and allegorical. Individually, each book, or text, is pretty clear in its delivery. The problem then arises when right wing nuts start saying it's all literal, with no room for interpretation. All narrative works are deepened by an understanding of the authors the social/ cultural context or atmosphere, and so much more. I'm not saying you need to know every little thing, as a matter of fact one can just read scripture and learn plenty- as long as they are not stifled by preconceived notions about the literal and infallible word of God being perfect and incorruptible.
The book of wisdom imparts bits of truth through allegorical snippets. The song of songs is a poetic piece. The book of Job tells a story- much like a fable in the oral traditions of all settled cultures.
Knowing scripture is diverse and NOT literal is easy.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
dogfishparisi said:
In my opinion it is easy to see that scripture was intended in ways both literal and allegorical. Individually, each book, or text, is pretty clear in its delivery. The problem then arises when right wing nuts start saying it's all literal, with no room for interpretation. All narrative works are deepened by an understanding of the authors the social/ cultural context or atmosphere, and so much more. I'm not saying you need to know every little thing, as a matter of fact one can just read scripture and learn plenty- as long as they are not stifled by preconceived notions about the literal and infallible word of God being perfect and incorruptible.
The book of wisdom imparts bits of truth through allegorical snippets. The song of songs is a poetic piece. The book of Job tells a story- much like a fable in the oral traditions of all settled cultures.
Knowing scripture is diverse and NOT literal is easy.
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You may have missunderstood the nature of my argument. My point is who is the universal arbiter for deciding what is literal and what is not?

And yeah, the right-wingers are scary.
 
D

dogfishparisi

Member
Milton Platt said:
You may have missunderstood the nature of my argument. My point is who is the universal arbiter for deciding what is literal and what is not?

And yeah, the right-wingers are scary.
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I think moderate thinkers do not need a universal arbiter to demystify that particular question. What is literally, and what is not, must come from observation and testing. Certain things are testable in a faith journey, some are not. For most people of faith they do not take the Bible literally - but because we have a huge number of neo- con so called Christians in positions of political power who do, and who try to impose their beliefs on others, Christians overall get a bad rap.
Most Christians are learning what they can believe in, bit by bit, by being active in their faith. Fundamentalists believe they have complete authority without learning, or testing, or a rational thought process. They are opposites.
Knowing concretely whether scripture is literal or not can never be known in some instances. But in many it is clear through common sense.
 
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