Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Where did the original idea of circumcision in Judaism and Islam come from? Did it come from the Egyptians, who anciently practiced circumcision?
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Circumcision in Judaism and Islam, where did it come from?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
There are various ideas but none conclusive. Circumcision was practiced by the ancient Egyptians and by various North Western Semitic cultures/Canaanites, as far as I know without a definite origin. In short it was an ancient Near Eastern regional practice, and both Judaism and later Islam emerged in the region and carried the cultural practice.
Pink Top Hat
Active Member
I would guess it was about cleanliness in a region that lacked water most of the time.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Maybe it's a bit obvious, but I'm going to go for the reason I believe.
God commanded Abraham to do it, and have every male in his household have a circumcision. Abraham was commanded to circumcise Isaac (and every male in his tradition thereafter) on the eighth day. And so, Jewish males get circumcised at the age of 8 days old, unless other circumstances intervene, and if that happens... As soon as it can be healthfully done that doesn't compete with a Jewish holiday.
Ishmael was 13 years old at the time Abraham was given the decree to circumcise all males in his household. Since Muslims have the tradition that they are descended from him, that is the source of Muslim circumcision.
It wasn't so much for cleanliness as much as it was to make an obvious and intimate difference and distinction between the males of Abraham's household and other males.
God commanded Abraham to do it, and have every male in his household have a circumcision. Abraham was commanded to circumcise Isaac (and every male in his tradition thereafter) on the eighth day. And so, Jewish males get circumcised at the age of 8 days old, unless other circumstances intervene, and if that happens... As soon as it can be healthfully done that doesn't compete with a Jewish holiday.
Ishmael was 13 years old at the time Abraham was given the decree to circumcise all males in his household. Since Muslims have the tradition that they are descended from him, that is the source of Muslim circumcision.
It wasn't so much for cleanliness as much as it was to make an obvious and intimate difference and distinction between the males of Abraham's household and other males.
outhouse
Atheistically
So god says to abraham, sharpen your knife! ive got a job for you! your going to be a little upset when you hear this so hold on to your chair! ???????
Did he chase his neighbors down with a knife?
we know paul had issues with this, dont you see this as a gradual process, as Caladan pointed out, Instead of a instant shock to a culture?
Dingbat
Avatar of Brittania
That really got a laugh out of me. For some reason thinking of an ancient Jew chasing his neighbors with a knife while screaming, "It is only a snip." just tickled my perverse funny bone.
Heh. We were talking about a "snip and a dip" just this weekend. A guy who's been attending service is wanting to convert, and that requires a circumcision and a trip to the mikvah.
Dingbat
Avatar of Brittania
I will have to admit that is the biggest thing off putting to Judaism the snipping. Though like your oddball Christian my parents had me circumcised but I can honestly say even the idea of just drawing a little blood makes me woozy. Hell anyone that can go all the way with it at an older age deserves the highest rewards of the Lord as that is beyond dedication.
I will have to admit that is the biggest thing off putting to Judaism the snipping. Though like your oddball Christian my parents had me circumcised but I can honestly say even the idea of just drawing a little blood makes me woozy. Hell anyone that can go all the way with it at an older age deserves the highest rewards of the Lord as that is beyond dedication.
For those of us who have already been circumcised, the procedure of giving a drop of blood is far less painful than the anticipation of having it done.
Trust me.:yes:
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Other religious groups practice it now, and even many non-religious people practice it, in the usa. So, I don't think that that ''purpose'', means that much anymore.
Personally, I don't think that Deity would command an act like circumcision, for simply differentiating a tribe. I mean, I can't imagine a rational deity requesting people to do that, for that reason.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
You really don't know much about the concept of how much God commands Jews to do things to differentiate us from other people.
Circumcision is only one of many such commandments. It also is one of the most personal.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
No, but all the men in his household? Quite probably.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Many non-Jewish people practice circumcision. If the goal is/was to differentiate between people, that goal has failed. That being said, I do understand your reasoning in the context of your religious beliefs.
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Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Not precisely. You can tell that someone was under Jewish influence, even if indirectly, if they circumcised their boys. Christians and Muslims, and other non-Jews who do are more or less indirectly influenced by Jews.
Most non-Jews (from what I've heard about non-Jews in Europe) look at this concept and call it ridiculous and barbaric. Obviously, they aren't too into the idea of what motivates Jews (and others) who DO practice circumcision.
Cool. It's good to reach an understanding.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
That's usually just the case in the US and Islamic countries.
Circumcision in other parts of the world is mostly done when there is a medical reason to do so.
Due to the omnipresence of the US in the english speaking part of the Internet it might seem that circumcision is a thing many people do, but it isn't.
Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
If you ask a practicing, believing member of either religion, the answer is obviously God.
But, honestly it's very good for a man's health. Far more hygienic for them and their sexual partners, so I'd encourage it for all men.