Religion has taught me

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

I have learned that believing is more important that knowing is.

I think God is for believing the truth, but religion is for learning to believe anything.

I see all religion is for making belief better than truth.

To believe you know the truth is far, far superior to knowing the truth according to the people here who teach their own version of some truth.

I think I can accuse them of breaking the rule that says to make yourself meek.

Seek righteousness, seek meekness says Jehovah. Zephaniah 2:3

ImmortalFlame · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
I have learned that believing is more important that knowing is.

Well, it's certainly more common, but can you honestly say that if you knew your beliefs were false, you'd continue believing them?

savagewind said:
I think God is for believing the truth, but religion is for learning to believe anything.

You don't need religion to believe anything.

savagewind said:
I see all religion is for making belief better than truth.

If belief is better than truth, then what's the point of God if God is "for believing the truth"?

savagewind said:
To believe you know the truth is far, far superior to knowing the truth according to the people here who teach their own version of some truth.

Okay, now you've gone from "barely coherent" to "total and utter jibberish"...

savagewind said:
I think I can accuse them of breaking the rule that says to make yourself meek.

Seek righteousness, seek meekness says Jehovah. Zephaniah 2:3

And above all, seek truth in belief, not knowledge in truth, because belief is better than truth (which is God) but believe in God because you know it's true, but the truth is far superior to the knowledge of what you believe because what you believe is better than truth except when the truth is superior to knowing the truth or someone's version of the truth in which you know you believe, and that's the way God is believing in truth makes your knowledge the truth of your belief. Got it?

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

I am saying what I observe not what I believe. Dah. LOL

I believe truth is for searching out. Religion which is BELIEF is for resting on what a person believes.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

An example. Ancient words are for deciphering. Correct? Someone did decipher them. Right now 1 Corinthians 13:5 says "love is not provoked" but I KNOW that love gets provoked. They say it means God wants us to believe that love does not get provoked because they say that scripture is God's word and that is what it says so that is what it should say.

I say it makes more sense to me that it should say "love does not provoke". I know love gets provoked but does not seek to provoke. But they won't talk about it because of BELIEF.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

ImmortalFlame said:
And above all, seek truth in belief, not knowledge in truth, because belief is better than truth (which is God) but believe in God because you know it's true, but the truth is far superior to the knowledge of what you believe because what you believe is better than truth except when the truth is superior to knowing the truth or someone's version of the truth in which you know you believe, and that's the way God is believing in truth makes your knowledge the truth of your belief. Got it?

I got something good. Haha Thank you. I love it!

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

If they think the truth is more important than their belief then they would explain to me why someone wrote that love is not provoked, but they don't.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

THEY say the proof of 1 Corinthians 13:5 is that Jesus said "if someone slaps you on the right cheek turn your left cheek to him", but that is because love DOES get provoked and Jesus knew it so he said do not cause a fight by retaliating.

Quintessence · Aug 13, 2015

I can't say that's one of the things religion has taught me.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

Quintessence said:
I can't say that's one of the things religion has taught me.

I think that is good as it is a bad lesson imo.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

I say belief is not enough. They say belief is what will save you.
It is written that to believe in the Lord Jesus is to be saved. Acts of the Apostles 16:31 But what does that mean? I think it means believe in knowing. Many people seem to stop at believe. That is what the thread is about. Religion is teaching a bad lesson imo which lesson is believing is good enough. I don't believe that.

Awoon · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
I say belief is not enough. They say belief is what will save you.
It is written that to believe in the Lord Jesus is to be saved. Acts of the Apostles 16:31 But what does that mean? I think it means believe in knowing. Many people seem to stop at believe. That is what the thread is about. Religion is teaching a bad lesson imo which lesson is believing is good enough. I don't believe that.

When I was young I believed what adults told me to believe. At middle age I got in trouble and was convinced joining church again would help me. I learned real fast that they were teaching and preaching (beliefs) the same thing I had left. I then met some people who weren't afraid of challenging the church leaders with the words of Jesus to do what he did, John 14. Which I have challenged Christians in here the same way. Well guess what? I found that the "beliefs" being taught by churches have nothing to do with Jesus religion, but ABOUT Jesus is what one must believe according to the churches.

Now at 64 years, I just breathe and do what makes me happy whether it is against church, bible, or Jesus. Beliefs cant add one inch to my height, or add one hair to my head...LOL LOL I guess Jesus "believed" the same... Go with the flow, standing still in stone written beliefs will only make one stagnant, old and shriveled up.

NewGuyOnTheBlock · Aug 13, 2015

Wellll, from my take, it seems that you are thinking, but your thinking is muddled. It seems like your belief in deities is threatened and you're trying to find a way to save it.

savagewind said:
I have learned that believing is more important that knowing is.

I couldn't disagree more. The Puritans once believed that a child misbehaving was evidence of demonic possession and the best way to encourage the spirit to leave was to beat the body of the child. Today, we know much more about child psychology and development so we have much better ideas, based on knowledge, on why children misbehave and ways of dealing with it that does not include child abuse. Knowing is infinitely more important and valuable and useful than believing.

savagewind said:
I think God is for believing the truth, but religion is for learning to believe anything.

But if you ask yourself why you believed in God, the first time, the answer is simply, "Because someone told me it was true". Religion is all about convincing people to believe in that which can not be proven; including God. Religion and deities are inseparable.

savagewind said:
To believe you know the truth is far, far superior to knowing the truth according to the people here who teach their own version of some truth.

I can't make any sense whatsoever of this statement. Not at all. To "believe" that you know the truth is meaningless. To be able to demonstrate a given thing as "truth"; not that is worth something.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

NewGuyOnTheBlock said:
I can't make any sense whatsoever of this statement. Not at all. To "believe" that you know the truth is meaningless. To be able to demonstrate a given thing as "truth"; not that is worth something.

Doesn't anyone else on the forum notice all the posts about "I believe this because God said it"? They have no reason to believe some of the things they do except that they WANT to believe it. So prove it! No, they won't explain what they believe because to them believing is enough. Explain why your belief is the right one. No, they say. So to them believing is better than an explanation.

But to know something is to be able to explain it. Right? So why don't they explain why God says "Love does not become provoked". I NEED them to explain it but they won't. Because? Belief is enough. It isn't enough though.

thau · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
If they think the truth is more important than their belief then they would explain to me why someone wrote that love is not provoked, but they don't.

Perhaps our definition of "love" is not the same?

It also appears you are implying nothing can be known about God, or even if there is one. Or maybe we do not agree with what "truth" means.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

thau said:
Perhaps our definition of "love" is not the same?

It also appears you are implying nothing can be known about God, or even if there is one.

I would say that nothing for certain can be known about God. I am not implying that God isn't real.

Or maybe we do not agree with what "truth" means.

I think truth means correctness.

1. Free from error or fault ;true and accurate.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/correctness

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

Wisdom does not react to being provoked. But that is not what 1 Corinthians 13:5 says.

If I wrote what love is two thousand years ago and I meant to say "love is not provoked" I would rather write "love is wise" but that is not always true. Is it?

thau · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
I would say that nothing for certain can be known about God.

I am not understanding how one can make that assumption. Given all that has been revealed (to my way of thinking and to so many others documenting their witness) I am quite certain God has made Himself known. Miracles and reason attest to that, IMO.

savagewind said:
I think truth means correctness.

Absolute truth may have its limitations. What is truth? Maybe we are all just a big dream of something more grander than us? Truth has to be based in logic and established experience. If the skies turn vivid purple and a cross appears in the sky for everyone in the world to see at the same time, I think we can logically conclude our experiences of the historical record and what has been determined hitherto to be in the “natural” can provide clear thinking man to conclude this is not natural, this is supernatural.

thau · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
Wisdom does not react to being provoked. But that is not what 1 Corinthians 13:5 says.

If I wrote what love is two thousand years ago and I meant to say "love is not provoked" I would rather write "love is wise" but that is not always true. Is it?

Love has many different meanings. Is it always wise? No. But the intention may be pure and honest.

The highest definition of love is agape love which is attributed to God. For us, that love is defined as sacrificial. It may often be rejected and unwelcome, but at some later date the defiant one may come to understand and not feel so offended.

savagewind · Aug 13, 2015

What I see are people who seem to say, "I believe it therefore it is true". I don't see many people saying, "it is reasonable, so it must be true".
If there was only one religion it might be difficult to find fault with it if it promoted goodness and not badness, but there are many religions and there is not agreement between them. Of course not! They all promote the idea that what they believe must be true just because they believe it that way. That is what it is about. Believing something does not make it true. I believe there is a God because I think it is reasonable to believe that what we see all around us has much order to it. I don't believe orderliness pops up from nowhere. But I do not campaign for belief in my God because it is not reasonable to do so imo.

I believe because I think it is good for me to do so. But I see people believing in a myriad of opinions associated with their god or gods just because religion dictates belief. Religion has taught me that I should believe and that is most important. I think reason is more important than belief.

RedDragon94 · Aug 13, 2015

savagewind said:
I have learned that believing is more important that knowing is.

I believe we learn truth by experience. How can we not know what truth is when it is confirmed through knowledge of life?

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