The Law

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain_Climber said:
Matthew 24:20 "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.."

I don't know. Every answer I can think of falls short in one way or another when I follow it through in my mind.

I know that traditions which were superimposed on top of the actual requirements set forth in the Torah, required that the gates to the city be closed and locked on the Sabbath day. But if it were impossible to escape then it seems there would be no sense in saying, "that your flight not be", for it would go without saying that no flight then could be. Further, winter does not make flight impossible, although it would make flight much more difficult and it would increase the losses one had to suffer in fleeing. I can't say as locking the gates would prevent anyone from leaving if they were very determined to leave. Perhaps as it relates to that day the thought is the same, simply that it would be much more difficult and involve much greater losses.

Those same traditions set limits on many things related to the Sabbath which were not specified as requirements under the Old Law. Thus we see man-made ordinances regulating the manner in which ones worshiped and obeyed God, made by men who had seated themselves in the temple of God, portraying themselves that they were in essence, charged with interpreting the Law. In other words they had made themselves as God's mind and mouthpiece to the people and their word was law (though they would deny it was their word, calling it God's). It is a similar type of occurrence that Paul has in mind at 2 Thessalonians chapter 2:3-4.

Now that is a disgusting thing which causes desolation to the people. On their word the Roman armies would be incited to either work with or attack them. And the Zealots had more favor with them than the average peace loving Jew. I would say that seeing that union reforming ought to have reminded many of Masada and should have been a clear signal to get away from a very predictable disaster. But I, like everyone else, can only speculate.

Yet, I see another echo of that event about to occur. I see the massive kingdom built by Christians as being a reworking of that first century political/religious/commercial structure riding atop the kingdoms of this world. And I see that events are now taking place with the blessings of that religious structure which are going to bring the governments of this world to do to it what Rome did to that first century Jerusalem. And there will be no exceptions for Muslims or Jews or Christians or for any religion once the governments turn on them.

Do I know that for a certainty? No.

All I can do is watch and try to figure it out as things move along, the same as anyone else.

But why pray? Why pray that this flight be not in the winter nor on the Sabbath day? I can only figure that means to pray for God to grant me the wisdom to see while there is yet time to make that flight, before having to make that flight comes at such a great cost.

Shalom Mountain Climber, I suppose I am looking at these things just a little differently than you. Simply put, the "fleeing" that must be done is a flight from sin or iniquity, and where one flees when they flee from sin is unto righteousness (Psa 36:6), the great mountains of Hashem. The reason one should pray their flight does not occur on the Sabbath is that the Sabbath is The Day of Hashem, and those not resting from sin on His Day will miss out on a great blessing. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. Remember a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day unto Hashem.

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Shalom Ron and Mountain Climber, I thought I would address you both here as I am cramped for time this morning before I leave for work. Mountain Climber I see your response is in a little opposition to Ron's post as it appears you recognize that man is a slave of sin, without freedom (I agree with that). One needs freedom to have a free will and a slave can only do their master's bidding, but even a slave can use a little input as to how they accomplish their master's will (which sin they perform). So everyone who sins, is a slave or servant of sin, and they have no freewill except to choose WHICH sin/sins they work or accomplish. Carnal man cannot and will not be obedient to Hashem, it is impossible to do so, as Hashem has bound all to disobedience by creating us flesh/carnal. The Moshiach's role and desire is to set sinners free FROM their slavery to sin, to where they can begin to exercise a FREEWILL, and not be that slave or servant of sin. At least that is how I view it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 3, 2015

Ken Brown said:
Shalom Mountain Climber, I suppose I am looking at these things just a little differently than you. Simply put, the "fleeing" that must be done is a flight from sin or iniquity, and where one flees when they flee from sin is unto righteousness (Psa 36:6), the great mountains of Hashem. The reason one should pray their flight does not occur on the Sabbath is that the Sabbath is The Day of Hashem, and those not resting from sin on His Day will miss out on a great blessing. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

P.S. Remember a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day unto Hashem.

That is very clear in the scriptures and I very much agree that is our principal need for flight, even in such a time as Jerusalem was facing.

I suppose what was said is to those in Judaea rather than Jerusalem. But I don't think that Jesus meant the seventh day Sabbath and on the other major Sabbath days they would have been gathered to Jerusalem to hear the recitation of the Law, they and their children with them in obedience to the Law.

There is a particular verse in the Psalms which I figure explains the mountains which they were to flee to: Psalms 125:2 "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever."

So that harmonizes with yet more of the Psalms to enhance the connection as you describe it: Psalms 72:2-3 "He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness."

Now that signals my mind that these mountains are symbols of those described here: Psalms 125:1 "They that trust in Jehovah Are as mount Zion, which cannot be moved, but abideth for ever."

So to my mind it means we need to be about the business of figuring out who his anointed ones really are as they are those mountains in his image. They are who we flee to so as to receive life-saving knowledge and understanding.

In the first century those would have been spirit anointed Christ followers patterning their walk and their spirit after that of the Christ who was and is the image of God as we are supposed to be.

It goes without saying that there is no hope in literal mountains. Masada is enough proof of that.

Added: I have to admit that I am extremely likely to change my opinion in an instant when I find anything that makes better sense to me. I have nothing to lose as I don't have anyone to try to please by believing as they believe. I used to try to defend belief based upon familial sharing but that fell through for me long ago when i discovered I desired to go on growing but many of them did not.

This is why the subject of sanctification and priestly function became so important to me. I have many a loved one who are going to need someone who had the courage to step away from the norm and allow God to increase him. I pray that I will be prepared to plead their cause and help some of them to make the changes in their lives that need be made.

I hope and pray that no one would just gulp down anything I say. I well know how I can be wrong. But hopefully as I share what I learn in the process of my growing it will be of use to someone else, too.

Ron Hackel · Aug 3, 2015

Ken

Do the elderly have freewill when a con artist approaches them with some lie?

EZEKIEL 28 : 12 "You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty."

Ken, do you think any human has a chance against the greatest con artist the world has ever seen? Even the other fallen angels had no clue.

LUKE 8 : 28 "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!

God is total love. Our God would torture no one. We are a slave to Satan's suggestions. Lucifer has this thing about ruling. As long as he can have doubt about God's character he has his slaves. It is all about to fall apart though when this earth blows up and shows that Lucifer's way of ruling was utterly useless. Just about everyone still believes the lies he started in the garden of Eden. Humans think they should have freewill. They believe in the American dream-free enterprise. But it is actually the law of greed and as we see in the world it is about to all fall apart. Most of the world still believes in a God that is not total love. Satan has them believing Jesus had to pay a penalty to satisfy some legal thing we had. God is a loving Father and not a legalistic tyrant. Can you imagine a God of total love killing his children because they ate a piece of fruit? If God's M.O. works the same it should begin on 9/28 as I stated in one of my posts. Jesus said to watch for the signs and they all have come home to roost.

We are past the 6000 year mark. God being fair allowed Lucifer his chance to prove his way. To God a year is like a thousand years. The clock on the sabbath rest not being done started with Cain's farming on the sabbath year, breaking the covenant of trust. As Scripture says he brought a sacrifice in the course of time. God doesn't waste words and there was no need to say in the course of time (the sabbath year). It could of said he just brought a sacrifice.

9/28 starts the 40th jubilee year since Christ's crucifixion. The fulfillment of the Gentiles because they were given their chance as the Jews were in the desert. Mankind given 40 sabbath years to come to trust God.

It also marks the 120th jubilee year since creation. Noah was given 120 years to convince the people to come into the ark.

There was a tetrad at the time of the crucifixion. There have been seven since not counting the eighth which will be concluded on 9/28. These of course are the four blood moons in consecutive years which appear on Jewish feast days. This is the eighth, which signifies new beginnings. That is why the Jews were circumcised on the eighth day and Jesus rose on the eight day. It signified a rebirth. When you talk about being born again, this is what Jesus was talking about. The old way of thinking of God must pass away and the new picture that Jesus showed of God must be accepted. You have to get rid of Satan's picture of God which was reflected by the Mount Sinai god.

In the past these tertrads resulted in the literal sword for the Jewish people. This tetrad, the eighth, signals the new beginning and the coming of the spiritual sword which is the word of God. People will be slayed by the word of God. Slayed, because they don't accept it. God is love and they refuse to believe it.

JOHN 12 : 48 "there is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

Jesus said he was the Son of God and came in the name (name in Hebrew means character) of the Father. On the last day you must trust in a God of total love and come into New Jerusalem which will come down to save us from a earth that is about to explode. God said he is a wall of fire around the city (Zec 2:5). If you believe in a punishing god as Satan has put in our minds you will run in fear.

Jesus used the Jews to show how you should live. Although they rarely followed it. Every seventh year all debts were cancelled. The end of the sabbath year for the Jews landed in our Sept-Oct timeframe because of their 360 day year. If you go back the last seven Sep-Oct sabbath years you'll see an economic crash.

After the last crash in 08 there followed total eclipses of the sun on three consecutive years. We usually have total solar eclipses every 1 to 1&1/2 years. So no big deal, except all three landed on the 1st of Av. That was the day the scouts came back and told the Jews they couldn't possibly defeat the people that were in the promised land. That night they cried in their tents to go back to Egypt. Sundown of that day was the 1st of Av. The Babylonians burned the Jewish temple on the 1st of Av. The Romans burned the new temple in 70 A.D. on the 1st of Av. The Romans plowed the entire city the following year on the 1st of Av. The Jews were expelled from England and Spain in different years, but the day for both was the 1st of Av.

God said before the end that he would seal a people with the name of God. Again, name means God's character. What I've shown is the opposite of what all the churches teach. rev 14 : 4 says this group would not defile themselves with women (God's supposed people who are now the whore-running after a false picture of God.

9/28 also is the birthday of the end time prophet that was to come. Almost all of these signs will never happen again. So if Jesus was serious about watching for signs this should be the time. Even the secular world knows something is about to happen. The entire world is in an economic situation that seems to have no end. Couple that with some physical calamity and the world will be in chaos.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 3, 2015

Ken Brown said:
Shalom Ron and Mountain Climber, I thought I would address you both here as I am cramped for time this morning before I leave for work. Mountain Climber I see your response is in a little opposition to Ron's post as it appears you recognize that man is a slave of sin, without freedom (I agree with that). One needs freedom to have a free will and a slave can only do their master's bidding, but even a slave can use a little input as to how they accomplish their master's will (which sin they perform). So everyone who sins, is a slave or servant of sin, and they have no freewill except to choose WHICH sin/sins they work or accomplish. Carnal man cannot and will not be obedient to Hashem, it is impossible to do so, as Hashem has bound all to disobedience by creating us flesh/carnal. The Moshiach's role and desire is to set sinners free FROM their slavery to sin, to where they can begin to exercise a FREEWILL, and not be that slave or servant of sin. At least that is how I view it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Keeping this very simple, Ken, the slave of sin does not know he or she is a slave of sin. To their mind they are pursuing freely what they take pleasure in, having bought into Satan's lie.

You are getting the perspective mixed up here. Myself and Ron are speaking from the standpoint of what it seems to their mind and you are speaking of the reality.

But we all should know that Satan's spreading of this seeking of free-will was an illusion, a lie that perhaps even he himself believes, but none the less a lie

You are right in the perspective you are choosing to look at up to the point where you say, "The Moshiach's role and desire is to set sinners free FROM their slavery to sin, to where they can begin to exercise a FREEWILL."

I have already explained most of the scriptures which speak of that liberty you are confusing with freewill. Take advantage of that to do some more pondering. If you will do that, it is inescapable that you will come to agree with Ron and myself. For it can be no other way according to the scriptures.

FREEWILL is a word that is not anywhere to be found in the scriptures for a good reason. Our will belongs to God so that we will walk in his image and if we do not submit our will to God then he will eventually destroy us. Obviously then he did not give us FREEWILL. FREEWILL is a continuation of Satan's lie, a continuation of the illusion began by Satan.

And, by the way, that freewill doctrine is one of the more serious false teachings due to the impact it has upon all men who believe it, even when they believe little else. So you can bet that doctrine angers God and he will exact an accounting with those that teach it.

James 3:1 "Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment."

Added: Here is another way to look at it: Who do you belong to? Do you believe that you belong to yourself or do you believe that you belong to God?

Many who understand that they belong to God yet think their will belongs to them, aka freewill.

Is that how you present a whole burnt offering? Our lives are to be presented to God as whole burnt offerings. There is no room in that to reserve a piece of us to our self lest you want your sacrifice to be rejected of God.

2nd Addition: So what do the sacrifices in which the one who offers the sacrifice shares in a part of the sacrifice represent insofar as freewill is concerned?

They represent nothing about freewill. The portion the one who offers is aloud to share in represents the generosity of God. key word, "aloud." Such offerings, by that portion we are aloud to share in show us that God cares for our needs when we are faithful to him.

Ron Hackel · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain climber

Would you be willing to reconsider your stance on your insistence that God is going to kill some of his creation? This is one of the lies that Satan has instilled in men's minds. It will result in you fearing God at the second coming. If you'd be willing to read my post #295, I tried to show that the vindictive god you're advocating was the picture of god that the Jews demanded and God obliged. God is going to judge. But it is not how we humans judge.

JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards, I pass judgment on no one."

He judges what you desire. The definition we use for justice was given by the Mount Sinai god which was the picture of the pagan god the Jews desired.

ZECHARIAH 7 : 9 "This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to each other."

Righteousness was the knowledge of an all loving God. Psalm 78 recounts the Jews first 90 days after being released from slavery. They refused to follow that God and verse 32 says it was sin. Paul in Romans 3 : 9-12 says the Jews were under sin as the Gentiles were. Neither understood their God. Paul said they were unrighteous in that they did not understand or even seek the God he was.

AMOS 6 : 12 "But you have turned justice into poison and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness."

God's justice is love and we've turned it into poison. Wine in the Bible was synonymous for God's character. Isaiah 5 says the Jews were his vineyard but only produced bad grapes. They never were able to produce good wine. Psalm 80 said they were a vine taken from Egypt (grapevine). But the Psalm said they failed and were burnt (verse16) and because of that it would be given to Jesus to do (verse 17). John 15:1, Jesus confirmed it by saying he was the true vine. He would show God's character. He didn't come to pay a penalty, but to show a God that wouldn't have had a penalty. He told the apostles to do as he had done. In Romans 8:23 Paul said they were the firstfruits of the Spirit. John called him the Spirit of truth. So the Christian church has turned the fruit of righteousness (God's true character) into bitterness.

AMOS 3 : 2 "You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins."

Judah is the remnant-144,000

ZECHARIAH 11 : 14 "Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."

AMOS 7 ; 8 "Look, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer."

ISAIAH 28 : 17 "I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line."

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Ron Hackel said:
Ken

Do the elderly have freewill when a con artist approaches them with some lie?

EZEKIEL 28 : 12 "You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty."

Ken, do you think any human has a chance against the greatest con artist the world has ever seen? Even the other fallen angels had no clue.

LUKE 8 : 28 "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!

God is total love. Our God would torture no one. We are a slave to Satan's suggestions. Lucifer has this thing about ruling. As long as he can have doubt about God's character he has his slaves. It is all about to fall apart though when this earth blows up and shows that Lucifer's way of ruling was utterly useless. Just about everyone still believes the lies he started in the garden of Eden. Humans think they should have freewill. They believe in the American dream-free enterprise. But it is actually the law of greed and as we see in the world it is about to all fall apart. Most of the world still believes in a God that is not total love. Satan has them believing Jesus had to pay a penalty to satisfy some legal thing we had. God is a loving Father and not a legalistic tyrant. Can you imagine a God of total love killing his children because they ate a piece of fruit? If God's M.O. works the same it should begin on 9/28 as I stated in one of my posts. Jesus said to watch for the signs and they all have come home to roost.

We are past the 6000 year mark. God being fair allowed Lucifer his chance to prove his way. To God a year is like a thousand years. The clock on the sabbath rest not being done started with Cain's farming on the sabbath year, breaking the covenant of trust. As Scripture says he brought a sacrifice in the course of time. God doesn't waste words and there was no need to say in the course of time (the sabbath year). It could of said he just brought a sacrifice.

9/28 starts the 40th jubilee year since Christ's crucifixion. The fulfillment of the Gentiles because they were given their chance as the Jews were in the desert. Mankind given 40 sabbath years to come to trust God.

It also marks the 120th jubilee year since creation. Noah was given 120 years to convince the people to come into the ark.

There was a tetrad at the time of the crucifixion. There have been seven since not counting the eighth which will be concluded on 9/28. These of course are the four blood moons in consecutive years which appear on Jewish feast days. This is the eighth, which signifies new beginnings. That is why the Jews were circumcised on the eighth day and Jesus rose on the eight day. It signified a rebirth. When you talk about being born again, this is what Jesus was talking about. The old way of thinking of God must pass away and the new picture that Jesus showed of God must be accepted. You have to get rid of Satan's picture of God which was reflected by the Mount Sinai god.

In the past these tertrads resulted in the literal sword for the Jewish people. This tetrad, the eighth, signals the new beginning and the coming of the spiritual sword which is the word of God. People will be slayed by the word of God. Slayed, because they don't accept it. God is love and they refuse to believe it.

JOHN 12 : 48 "there is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

Jesus said he was the Son of God and came in the name (name in Hebrew means character) of the Father. On the last day you must trust in a God of total love and come into New Jerusalem which will come down to save us from a earth that is about to explode. God said he is a wall of fire around the city (Zec 2:5). If you believe in a punishing god as Satan has put in our minds you will run in fear.

Jesus used the Jews to show how you should live. Although they rarely followed it. Every seventh year all debts were cancelled. The end of the sabbath year for the Jews landed in our Sept-Oct timeframe because of their 360 day year. If you go back the last seven Sep-Oct sabbath years you'll see an economic crash.

After the last crash in 08 there followed total eclipses of the sun on three consecutive years. We usually have total solar eclipses every 1 to 1&1/2 years. So no big deal, except all three landed on the 1st of Av. That was the day the scouts came back and told the Jews they couldn't possibly defeat the people that were in the promised land. That night they cried in their tents to go back to Egypt. Sundown of that day was the 1st of Av. The Babylonians burned the Jewish temple on the 1st of Av. The Romans burned the new temple in 70 A.D. on the 1st of Av. The Romans plowed the entire city the following year on the 1st of Av. The Jews were expelled from England and Spain in different years, but the day for both was the 1st of Av.

God said before the end that he would seal a people with the name of God. Again, name means God's character. What I've shown is the opposite of what all the churches teach. rev 14 : 4 says this group would not defile themselves with women (God's supposed people who are now the whore-running after a false picture of God.

9/28 also is the birthday of the end time prophet that was to come. Almost all of these signs will never happen again. So if Jesus was serious about watching for signs this should be the time. Even the secular world knows something is about to happen. The entire world is in an economic situation that seems to have no end. Couple that with some physical calamity and the world will be in chaos.

Shalom Ron, we should discuss Hashem's plan. When HaSatan tempted Eve, and Adam disobeyed with her, was this a "foil" of Hashem's plan? You believe Adam and Eve had "freewill" and they KNOWINGLY disobeyed Hashem's command, so did this freewill disobedience change Hashem's plan for mankind? Have you ever given this much thought? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain_Climber said:
That is very clear in the scriptures and I very much agree that is our principal need for flight, even in such a time as Jerusalem was facing.

I suppose what was said is to those in Judaea rather than Jerusalem. But I don't think that Jesus meant the seventh day Sabbath and on the other major Sabbath days they would have been gathered to Jerusalem to hear the recitation of the Law, they and their children with them in obedience to the Law.

There is a particular verse in the Psalms which I figure explains the mountains which they were to flee to: Psalms 125:2 "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever."

So that harmonizes with yet more of the Psalms to enhance the connection as you describe it: Psalms 72:2-3 "He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment. The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness."

Now that signals my mind that these mountains are symbols of those described here: Psalms 125:1 "They that trust in Jehovah Are as mount Zion, which cannot be moved, but abideth for ever."

So to my mind it means we need to be about the business of figuring out who his anointed ones really are as they are those mountains in his image. They are who we flee to so as to receive life-saving knowledge and understanding.

In the first century those would have been spirit anointed Christ followers patterning their walk and their spirit after that of the Christ who was and is the image of God as we are supposed to be.

It goes without saying that there is no hope in literal mountains. Masada is enough proof of that.

Added: I have to admit that I am extremely likely to change my opinion in an instant when I find anything that makes better sense to me. I have nothing to lose as I don't have anyone to try to please by believing as they believe. I used to try to defend belief based upon familial sharing but that fell through for me long ago when i discovered I desired to go on growing but many of them did not.

This is why the subject of sanctification and priestly function became so important to me. I have many a loved one who are going to need someone who had the courage to step away from the norm and allow God to increase him. I pray that I will be prepared to plead their cause and help some of them to make the changes in their lives that need be made.

I hope and pray that no one would just gulp down anything I say. I well know how I can be wrong. But hopefully as I share what I learn in the process of my growing it will be of use to someone else, too.

Shalom Mountain Climber, I really like how you think and how you express yourself. You have done a lot of thinking about what you believe...it really shows. As I told you before I have a close friend that views the abomination of desolation as the destruction of the Assembly, where Truth was cast to the ground as many would not love it, and then false, confused, counterfeit churches rose up (believing a lie) to take the place of the One True Church (and I gleaned from what you said before that you and him have these similar thoughts).

While I believe he is correct to a certain point, I see a more abominable act that was prior to the destruction of the One True Church, which caused utter and total desolation to ALL of human kind. Would you possibly be able to think of what I am speaking of? Think along the lines of "standing where it ought not," and "made to stand in the Holy Place," and "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Levite · Aug 3, 2015

Not that I presume anyone cares, but if anyone were interested, most Jews find it both annoying and creepy when Christians randomly start Jewing up their conversation with Hebraisms and Judaic vernacular, as though that somehow made their Christianity more authentically Jewish. It's a little like verbal blackface.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 3, 2015

Ken Brown said:
Shalom Mountain Climber, I really like how you think and how you express yourself. You have done a lot of thinking about what you believe...it really shows. As I told you before I have a close friend that views the abomination of desolation as the destruction of the Assembly, where Truth was cast to the ground as many would not love it, and then false, confused, counterfeit churches rose up (believing a lie) to take the place of the One True Church (and I gleaned from what you said before that you and him have these similar thoughts).

While I believe he is correct to a certain point, I see a more abominable act that was prior to the destruction of the One True Church, which caused utter and total desolation to ALL of human kind. Would you possibly be able to think of what I am speaking of? Think along the lines of "standing where it ought not," and "made to stand in the Holy Place," and "I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I appreciate your frankness. But I don't have to think very hard to know what you are inferring.

Having myself been subjected to the same ideas I have no need to reconsider them more than multiple times I already have.

It is obvious to me that you are set in choosing to believe it and I understand why.

That is too bad. I had hoped more for you.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 3, 2015

Levite said:
Not that I presume anyone cares, but if anyone were interested, Jews find it both annoying and creepy when Christians randomly start Jewing up their conversation with Hebraisms and Judaic vernacular, as though that somehow made their Christianity more authentically Jewish. It's a little like verbal blackface.

Evidently you need not fret about Ken.

Besides, his vernacular did not bother me in the least.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 3, 2015

Ron Hackel said:
Mountain climber

Would you be willing to reconsider your stance on your insistence that God is going to kill some of his creation? This is one of the lies that Satan has instilled in men's minds. It will result in you fearing God at the second coming. If you'd be willing to read my post #295, I tried to show that the vindictive god you're advocating was the picture of god that the Jews demanded and God obliged. God is going to judge. But it is not how we humans judge.

JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards, I pass judgment on no one."

He judges what you desire. The definition we use for justice was given by the Mount Sinai god which was the picture of the pagan god the Jews desired.

ZECHARIAH 7 : 9 "This is what the Lord Almighty says: 'administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to each other."

Righteousness was the knowledge of an all loving God. Psalm 78 recounts the Jews first 90 days after being released from slavery. They refused to follow that God and verse 32 says it was sin. Paul in Romans 3 : 9-12 says the Jews were under sin as the Gentiles were. Neither understood their God. Paul said they were unrighteous in that they did not understand or even seek the God he was.

AMOS 6 : 12 "But you have turned justice into poison and the fruit of righteousness into bitterness."

God's justice is love and we've turned it into poison. Wine in the Bible was synonymous for God's character. Isaiah 5 says the Jews were his vineyard but only produced bad grapes. They never were able to produce good wine. Psalm 80 said they were a vine taken from Egypt (grapevine). But the Psalm said they failed and were burnt (verse16) and because of that it would be given to Jesus to do (verse 17). John 15:1, Jesus confirmed it by saying he was the true vine. He would show God's character. He didn't come to pay a penalty, but to show a God that wouldn't have had a penalty. He told the apostles to do as he had done. In Romans 8:23 Paul said they were the firstfruits of the Spirit. John called him the Spirit of truth. So the Christian church has turned the fruit of righteousness (God's true character) into bitterness.

AMOS 3 : 2 "You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your sins."

Judah is the remnant-144,000

ZECHARIAH 11 : 14 "Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel."

AMOS 7 ; 8 "Look, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer."

ISAIAH 28 : 17 "I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line."

I must be honest and tell you right up front that it amazes me how so many can see certain things somewhat correctly and other things so way out in left field.

I will respond to your question with a question:

Would you be willing to reconsider your stance on your insistence that God is not going to kill some who have corrupted his creation?

Notice I place the blame where it belongs:

Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation."

And what did they use to corrupt themselves? FREEWILL.

Genesis 6:5-6 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain_Climber said:
Keeping this very simple, Ken, the slave of sin does not know he or she is a slave of sin. To their mind they are pursuing freely what they take pleasure in, having bought into Satan's lie.

You are getting the perspective mixed up here. Myself and Ron are speaking from the standpoint of what it seems to their mind and you are speaking of the reality.

But we all should know that Satan's spreading of this seeking of free-will was an illusion, a lie that perhaps even he himself believes, but none the less a lie

You are right in the perspective you are choosing to look at up to the point where you say, "The Moshiach's role and desire is to set sinners free FROM their slavery to sin, to where they can begin to exercise a FREEWILL."

I have already explained most of the scriptures which speak of that liberty you are confusing with freewill. Take advantage of that to do some more pondering. If you will do that, it is inescapable that you will come to agree with Ron and myself. For it can be no other way according to the scriptures.

FREEWILL is a word that is not anywhere to be found in the scriptures for a good reason. Our will belongs to God so that we will walk in his image and if we do not submit our will to God then he will eventually destroy us. Obviously then he did not give us FREEWILL. FREEWILL is a continuation of Satan's lie, a continuation of the illusion began by Satan.

And, by the way, that freewill doctrine is one of the more serious false teachings due to the impact it has upon all men who believe it, even when they believe little else. So you can bet that doctrine angers God and he will exact an accounting with those that teach it.

James 3:1 "Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment."

Added: Here is another way to look at it: Who do you belong to? Do you believe that you belong to yourself or do you believe that you belong to God?

Many who understand that they belong to God yet think their will belongs to them, aka freewill.

Is that how you present a whole burnt offering? Our lives are to be presented to God as whole burnt offerings. There is no room in that to reserve a piece of us to our self lest you want your sacrifice to be rejected of God.

2nd Addition: So what do the sacrifices in which the one who offers the sacrifice shares in a part of the sacrifice represent insofar as freewill is concerned?

They represent nothing about freewill. The portion the one who offers is aloud to share in represents the generosity of God. key word, "aloud." Such offerings, by that portion we are aloud to share in show us that God cares for our needs when we are faithful to him.

Shalom Mountain Climber, I'm not sure we are that far apart here, so just think along the lines of light and darkness. When someone is in darkness, all they can do is just grope around and eventually fall into the ditch, thinking they have liberty to freely move around in the darkness, but in reality, they have no freedom. It takes coming INTO the Light before one can see to freely walk and work effectively with a will that is no longer a slave to sin, but rather a slave to obedience. This liberty to come out from under the control of sin is to have a sinner come to a Knowledge of the Truth, and then TURN from all of their iniquity. Before a sinner comes to a Knowledge of the Truth, they cannot and will not submit to Hashem's will, it's just not possible, for the flesh and it's desires is against what Hashem desires.

And I agree with your analogy about burnt offerings, but it takes coming to a Knowledge of the Truth which is what Hashem truly desires, and then sinners will no longer be sinners, but fully, wholly, and freely offering their hearts to Him. Then and only then is there TRULY freewill to choose LIFE, and live. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Ken Brown · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain_Climber said:
I appreciate your frankness. But I don't have to think very hard to know what you are inferring.

Having myself been subjected to the same ideas I have no need to reconsider them more than multiple times I already have.

It is obvious to me that you are set in choosing to believe it and I understand why.

That is too bad. I had hoped more for you.

Shalom Mountain Climber, are you sure you understand why? I would very much appreciate if you could explain your understanding of why? Have you not examined the Scriptures concerning what is abominable to Hashem...the shedding of innocent blood (Exo 23:7, Deu 19:10, Pro 6:16-17), false scales and unjust balances (Pro 11:1, 20:23), punishing/condemning the innocent/righteous to justify the guilty (Pro 17:15). In fact, it is not good to punish the righteous, not to strike the prince for equity (Pro 17:26). Are you sure you understand why? I hope you try to understand why. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Ron Hackel · Aug 3, 2015

Mountain Climber
Man was created to counter Lucifer's claims in heaven. God does not demand allegiance. He proves himself by demonstration. Use the prodigal son as your example. Didn't the father know the son would fail? He was waiting for him to return with the signet ring in his hand

A God of love has no other way of showing the truth.

Honestly answer this question. Would you kill your child for eating a piece of fruit? I'm assuming you're saying no. Yet you lay this on a God of unconditional love. What does unconditional mean? There are no conditions to be met. The Mount Sinai god does not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Romans 1, Paul tells us man is without excuse. I have a friend who believes as you and says see God is going to kill some because they are without excuse. But, Paul says they are without excuse because his divine nature can be understood from what has been made. They are without excuse to think God will kill anyone.

Have you heard of the law of thermal dynamics? Nothing is lost on the earth. Everything created by God was a perfect cycle. Without man interfering using the law of greed this planet exists for eternity. Satan influences minds to think the worst of God. As Jesus said he came to bring light but men love the darkness. Before the flood their society were suffering as we are today. Genesis says their minds were evil continually. Turn to 2 Timothy 3 :1-5 and see if this isn't a good definition of evil continually. God wasn't grieved mad, he was grieved sad because to prove Satan wrong we would have to endure what we've been enduring. It is the only way God can prove Lucifer wrong.

All these verses talking about evil perverse people are talking about people that believe God is capable of breaking his own commandment. They will be lost for 1000 years because they refuse to believe in a God of love and come into the city to be saved.

Ken

The plan in the future is to have God's Spirit reside in us. By having his Spirit in us the universe can see in us what God is like, since as Paul says God lives in unapproachable light that no one can see or has seen. But first God had to prove all of Lucifer's assertions to be false. He allowed freewill to prove it bad. After this we will gladly be slaves to God's will. When we get into trouble we cry for God's help to take control. Why not give it from the start. God gave us Psalm 40 in which he says he pierces our ear. That was the custom in Israel if you were a slave and you loved your master you asked not to be freed when the sabbath year came up. God says in Zeph 3:9 that after this world is destroyed he is going to cleanse the lips of all that they may call on his name. He can't do it until Satan is proven wrong. Unfortunately that requires the destruction of this world and all that sided with Satan. Lucifer said he could rule the universe better than God. How do you prove him wrong? You let him rule. What do you think of this world that we've brought to the edge of existence using Lucifer's law of greed? I forget where I post things, so if I repeat this I apologize.

1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

Jesus said god's will is to be done on earth. That is what we were created for. The only way to do that is to share his Spirit. as Jesus said I'm in the father and the Father is in me.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 : 28 "so that God may be all in all."
COLOSSIANS 1 ; 27 "To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you"
1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

They received this gift on Pentecost.

Ron Hackel · Aug 3, 2015

There is another example given by Jesus and you find it in the gospel of Mark. He was asking the disciples how many baskets of scraps they had picked up after each time he multiplied the loaves. Think. Were there any preservatives in bread then? Did they have plastic or even paper bags? The meals were in late afternoon. By the next morning the bread would be hard and useless. They didn't say, to have your daily bread for nothing. Why were they caring all those baskets of useless scraps? Jesus was showing them that God wastes nothing. Are we more important than scraps of useless bread?

Mountain_Climber · Aug 4, 2015

Ken Brown said:
Shalom Mountain Climber, I'm not sure we are that far apart here, so just think along the lines of light and darkness. When someone is in darkness, all they can do is just grope around and eventually fall into the ditch, thinking they have liberty to freely move around in the darkness, but in reality, they have no freedom. It takes coming INTO the Light before one can see to freely walk and work effectively with a will that is no longer a slave to sin, but rather a slave to obedience. This liberty to come out from under the control of sin is to have a sinner come to a Knowledge of the Truth, and then TURN from all of their iniquity. Before a sinner comes to a Knowledge of the Truth, they cannot and will not submit to Hashem's will, it's just not possible, for the flesh and it's desires is against what Hashem desires.

And I agree with your analogy about burnt offerings, but it takes coming to a Knowledge of the Truth which is what Hashem truly desires, and then sinners will no longer be sinners, but fully, wholly, and freely offering their hearts to Him. Then and only then is there TRULY freewill to choose LIFE, and live. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

That is the importance of Jesus the Messiah.

The large sector of what claims to be Christianity you should have no problem seeing does not teach what Jesus taught. They claim they do and they will wear you out defending that they do, but they don't. And i believe you know that but would attribute that to a cause convenient to your imagination.

That is not proof of anything to do with Jesus but is squarely rooted in the same conspiracy helping to sow division and corruption into the Christian congregation principally through Jewish antichrists as is yet happening here and now.

Ken Brown said:
Shalom Mountain Climber, are you sure you understand why? I would very much appreciate if you could explain your understanding of why? Have you not examined the Scriptures concerning what is abominable to Hashem...the shedding of innocent blood (Exo 23:7, Deu 19:10, Pro 6:16-17), false scales and unjust balances (Pro 11:1, 20:23), punishing/condemning the innocent/righteous to justify the guilty (Pro 17:15). In fact, it is not good to punish the righteous, not to strike the prince for equity (Pro 17:26). Are you sure you understand why? I hope you try to understand why. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Jesus as the Messiah would have to draw men to himself as the one God raised up to help his (that is, God's) people. God had raised up many helpers to his people in times past on a temporary basis. But in the one like unto Moses he raised up a final helper (the point of Hebrews 2:16 when properly translated) to the seed of Abraham. No one is drawn to him to serve him as false Christianity teaches. They are drawn to him to learn from him how to be the image of God they were created for the purpose of being.

It is the false doctrine of the Trinity which has caused them to twist what the New testament Bible writers wrote so as to portray Jesus as worshiped by men.

As Jews we have no excuse not to know better than most men that obeisance is not worship and can be properly rendered to human kings. But the truth is that the first seeds which ultimately grew into the Trinity belief were planted by Jews as anti-christian Jews sought to corrupt the Christian congregation with things they could later point to as proof that the whole Christianity movement is false. It was not unexpected. Nothing was accomplished beyond what was known would be accomplished and God has already collected the full number of his holy ones in the Messiah wherein they along with the Son worship the One True God Yehovah.

All that now remains is the finish.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 4, 2015

Ron Hackel said:
Mountain Climber
Man was created to counter Lucifer's claims in heaven. God does not demand allegiance. He proves himself by demonstration. Use the prodigal son as your example. Didn't the father know the son would fail? He was waiting for him to return with the signet ring in his hand

A God of love has no other way of showing the truth.

Honestly answer this question. Would you kill your child for eating a piece of fruit? I'm assuming you're saying no. Yet you lay this on a God of unconditional love. What does unconditional mean? There are no conditions to be met. The Mount Sinai god does not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Romans 1, Paul tells us man is without excuse. I have a friend who believes as you and says see God is going to kill some because they are without excuse. But, Paul says they are without excuse because his divine nature can be understood from what has been made. They are without excuse to think God will kill anyone.

Have you heard of the law of thermal dynamics? Nothing is lost on the earth. Everything created by God was a perfect cycle. Without man interfering using the law of greed this planet exists for eternity. Satan influences minds to think the worst of God. As Jesus said he came to bring light but men love the darkness. Before the flood their society were suffering as we are today. Genesis says their minds were evil continually. Turn to 2 Timothy 3 :1-5 and see if this isn't a good definition of evil continually. God wasn't grieved mad, he was grieved sad because to prove Satan wrong we would have to endure what we've been enduring. It is the only way God can prove Lucifer wrong.

All these verses talking about evil perverse people are talking about people that believe God is capable of breaking his own commandment. They will be lost for 1000 years because they refuse to believe in a God of love and come into the city to be saved.

Ken

The plan in the future is to have God's Spirit reside in us. By having his Spirit in us the universe can see in us what God is like, since as Paul says God lives in unapproachable light that no one can see or has seen. But first God had to prove all of Lucifer's assertions to be false. He allowed freewill to prove it bad. After this we will gladly be slaves to God's will. When we get into trouble we cry for God's help to take control. Why not give it from the start. God gave us Psalm 40 in which he says he pierces our ear. That was the custom in Israel if you were a slave and you loved your master you asked not to be freed when the sabbath year came up. God says in Zeph 3:9 that after this world is destroyed he is going to cleanse the lips of all that they may call on his name. He can't do it until Satan is proven wrong. Unfortunately that requires the destruction of this world and all that sided with Satan. Lucifer said he could rule the universe better than God. How do you prove him wrong? You let him rule. What do you think of this world that we've brought to the edge of existence using Lucifer's law of greed? I forget where I post things, so if I repeat this I apologize.

1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 11 "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

Jesus said god's will is to be done on earth. That is what we were created for. The only way to do that is to share his Spirit. as Jesus said I'm in the father and the Father is in me.

1 CORINTHIANS 15 : 28 "so that God may be all in all."
COLOSSIANS 1 ; 27 "To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you"
1 CORINTHIANS 2 : 16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

They received this gift on Pentecost.

Your timetable is off.

But that is not the only thing.

Ron Hackel · Aug 4, 2015

At the next coming we make the choice to trust or not trust in a loving God. Your mind seems pretty closed ,but I'll try giving you Scripture that all points in the same direction.

MATTHEW 25 : 31-33 has God separating the goats from the sheep when he comes. Now you believe you are part of the sheep and God saves you and condemns the goats.
Jesus said he was the good shepherd. JOHN 10 : 14 "I know my sheep and my sheep know me."
JOHN 10 : 3 "The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice"
HOSEA 9 : 8 "The Prophet, along with God, is the watchman over Ephraim."
The war was being fought by Michael (Jesus) and his angels-messengers(God's messengers are the Prophets. The Prophets testimony told of God's character. They were the word and Jesus was the word that became flesh. You'll have to completely discount this because it clearly says Jesus- Michael is God.

This shows that the watchman opens the gate (our minds) so that we can go into God's pasture (the city at second coming).

2. You probably didn't read the analogy that God gave about wine being the knowledge of his character in my post 286, but if you read it here is what God does at the end using the same analogy.

REVELATION 16 : 19 "The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath."

I have no idea how you interpret this but it says the earth is splitting in three (blowing up). In the end there is Babylon and New Jerusalem. Babylon means confusion. Everything outside the city is confusion because they have accepted Satan's picture of God's character. God gives them the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. He allows them to believe what they desired in life as you do in a God that punishes. wrath is giving you up, allowing you to believe what you want about God.

3.In Revelation 14 : 14, you have two harvests at the second coming. The angel in the first harvest comes out of the temple and says the time to reap has come and the earth was harvested. The ones that believed in a loving God are brought into the city.

The second harvest has the same start. It has the angel coming out of the temple and says the grapes are ripe. This time it identifies the angel as the one in charge of the fire. If you remember from Isaiah 6 the angel brought a live coal from the altar to Isaiah and he immediately stopped being afraid. The fire (Holy Spirit) put the truth about God's character in his mind. The same fire (Holy Spirit) came at Pentecost. As we see though the second harvest shows that they reject the truth about God's character and are destroyed OUTSIDE THE CITY.

4. Adam and Eve hid from God in the garden because they said they were naked. They were not nude because a few verses prior it said they had clothed themselves. The nakedness was symbolic.
ISAIAH 61 : 10 "For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness."
Righteousness is understanding God's character. You have to be robed (know God's character to be saved at the second coming). Jesus showing God's character on earth are your garments of salvation. God warns you about this.

REVELATION 16 : 15 "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
Stay awake because God was sending the truth just before the end and don't feel naked and run from me showing you don't know me.

5.JOHN 8 : 50 "I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it and he is the judge."

Jesus came in the image of the Father. He said he is humble. Humans seek glory. We will be the judge in the end. Judging whether we trust God.

6. JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one."
REVELATION 14 : 7 "fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come." The hour of his judgment-the hour we judge him to be trustworthy or not.

7. PSALM 9 : 18 "The wicked return to the grave, all nations that forget God."
Why did they go BACK to the grave? Because they forgot how loving he is and preached a God to fear. What made them wicked? They sided with Satan in saying that God was not as loving as he is.

8. Jesus preached in Capernaum and told them to be lifted to the sky on the last day they would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. They thought it was disgusting and rejected him. They thus didn't get to know him.

LUKE 10 ; 15 "And you Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to Hades (the grave).

9. LUKE 12 : 5-7 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, AFTER THE KILLING OF THE BODY, has power to throw you into hell. Yes I tell you, fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs on your head are all numbered. DON'T BE AFRAID; YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN MANY SPARROWS."
HEBREWS 2 : 14 "so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil."

Jesus showing the true character of a loving God in contrast to the legalistic tyrant shown at Mount Destroyed Satan's power over us. It uncovered his lies. With his lies he had the power of death in keeping you from trusting God and coming into the city. In the first verse in Luke he says you don't have to be afraid of the Father but rather someone else (Satan).

10. JOHN 12 : 48 "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."
You condemn yourself to return to the grave if you do not believe what Jesus said. He said I come in the name of the Father. Name in Hebrew means one's character. He was the exact opposite of the Mount Sinai god in character.

11. JOHN 12 : 47 "As for the one who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him."

12. PSALM 53 : 4&5 "Will evildoers never learn....There they were overwhelmed with dread. WHERE THERE WAS NOTHING TO DREAD."

13. PSALM 50 : 15 "call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, AND YOU WILL HONOR ME."
We honor him because we believe in a God of love and reject the picture Satan is putting in our minds.

1 JOHN 3 : 8 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

JOHN 19 : 37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the trust."

1 JOHN 5 ; 20 "we know also that the son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."

1 JOHN 4 : 18 "There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."
We have to have perfect love for God so he can put his Spirit in us. Another thing that you of course must reject.

God is perfect love. The verse says it drives out fear by no punishing.

Mountain_Climber · Aug 4, 2015

Ron Hackel said:
At the next coming we make the choice to trust or not trust in a loving God. Your mind seems pretty closed ,but I'll try giving you Scripture that all points in the same direction.

MATTHEW 25 : 31-33 has God separating the goats from the sheep when he comes. Now you believe you are part of the sheep and God saves you and condemns the goats.
Jesus said he was the good shepherd. JOHN 10 : 14 "I know my sheep and my sheep know me."
JOHN 10 : 3 "The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice"
HOSEA 9 : 8 "The Prophet, along with God, is the watchman over Ephraim."
The war was being fought by Michael (Jesus) and his angels-messengers(God's messengers are the Prophets. The Prophets testimony told of God's character. They were the word and Jesus was the word that became flesh. You'll have to completely discount this because it clearly says Jesus- Michael is God.

This shows that the watchman opens the gate (our minds) so that we can go into God's pasture (the city at second coming).

2. You probably didn't read the analogy that God gave about wine being the knowledge of his character in my post 286, but if you read it here is what God does at the end using the same analogy.

REVELATION 16 : 19 "The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath."

I have no idea how you interpret this but it says the earth is splitting in three (blowing up). In the end there is Babylon and New Jerusalem. Babylon means confusion. Everything outside the city is confusion because they have accepted Satan's picture of God's character. God gives them the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. He allows them to believe what they desired in life as you do in a God that punishes. wrath is giving you up, allowing you to believe what you want about God.

3.In Revelation 14 : 14, you have two harvests at the second coming. The angel in the first harvest comes out of the temple and says the time to reap has come and the earth was harvested. The ones that believed in a loving God are brought into the city.

The second harvest has the same start. It has the angel coming out of the temple and says the grapes are ripe. This time it identifies the angel as the one in charge of the fire. If you remember from Isaiah 6 the angel brought a live coal from the altar to Isaiah and he immediately stopped being afraid. The fire (Holy Spirit) put the truth about God's character in his mind. The same fire (Holy Spirit) came at Pentecost. As we see though the second harvest shows that they reject the truth about God's character and are destroyed OUTSIDE THE CITY.

4. Adam and Eve hid from God in the garden because they said they were naked. They were not nude because a few verses prior it said they had clothed themselves. The nakedness was symbolic.
ISAIAH 61 : 10 "For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness."
Righteousness is understanding God's character. You have to be robed (know God's character to be saved at the second coming). Jesus showing God's character on earth are your garments of salvation. God warns you about this.

REVELATION 16 : 15 "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
Stay awake because God was sending the truth just before the end and don't feel naked and run from me showing you don't know me.

5.JOHN 8 : 50 "I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it and he is the judge."

Jesus came in the image of the Father. He said he is humble. Humans seek glory. We will be the judge in the end. Judging whether we trust God.

6. JOHN 8 : 15 "You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one."
REVELATION 14 : 7 "fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come." The hour of his judgment-the hour we judge him to be trustworthy or not.

7. PSALM 9 : 18 "The wicked return to the grave, all nations that forget God."
Why did they go BACK to the grave? Because they forgot how loving he is and preached a God to fear. What made them wicked? They sided with Satan in saying that God was not as loving as he is.

8. Jesus preached in Capernaum and told them to be lifted to the sky on the last day they would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood. They thought it was disgusting and rejected him. They thus didn't get to know him.

LUKE 10 ; 15 "And you Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to Hades (the grave).

9. LUKE 12 : 5-7 "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, AFTER THE KILLING OF THE BODY, has power to throw you into hell. Yes I tell you, fear him. Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs on your head are all numbered. DON'T BE AFRAID; YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN MANY SPARROWS."
HEBREWS 2 : 14 "so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil."

Jesus showing the true character of a loving God in contrast to the legalistic tyrant shown at Mount Destroyed Satan's power over us. It uncovered his lies. With his lies he had the power of death in keeping you from trusting God and coming into the city. In the first verse in Luke he says you don't have to be afraid of the Father but rather someone else (Satan).

10. JOHN 12 : 48 "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."
You condemn yourself to return to the grave if you do not believe what Jesus said. He said I come in the name of the Father. Name in Hebrew means one's character. He was the exact opposite of the Mount Sinai god in character.

11. JOHN 12 : 47 "As for the one who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him."

12. PSALM 53 : 4&5 "Will evildoers never learn....There they were overwhelmed with dread. WHERE THERE WAS NOTHING TO DREAD."

13. PSALM 50 : 15 "call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, AND YOU WILL HONOR ME."
We honor him because we believe in a God of love and reject the picture Satan is putting in our minds.

1 JOHN 3 : 8 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

JOHN 19 : 37 "In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the trust."

1 JOHN 5 ; 20 "we know also that the son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true."

1 JOHN 4 : 18 "There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."
We have to have perfect love for God so he can put his Spirit in us. Another thing that you of course must reject.

God is perfect love. The verse says it drives out fear by no punishing.

You are just spamming..

The Law

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Member

Active Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Higher and Higher

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Active Member

Active Member

Member

Active Member