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Muhammad and Jesus (divine or prophets?)

Is Jesus(Eashoa) god or prophet of god?

  • god

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • prophet

    Votes: 3 60.0%

  • Total voters
    5
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." Quran 5:46
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?" Numbers 23:19

~~Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:16

~~"And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." Matthew 13:57

~~And the crowds were saying, "This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee." Matthew 21:11


~~"For Jesus Himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country" John 4:44

~~ "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:" Luke 24:19

~~"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world." John 6:14

~~"On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.” Others said, “He is the Messiah.” John 7:40-41

~~"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." Luke 13:33

~~"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet." John 4:19

~~"Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone." Mark 10:18

~~"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? " Matthew 27:46

~~"I *can do nothing on My own initiative*. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but *the will of Him who sent Me.*" John 5:30

~~"Verily, verily I say unto you, the servant is not greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than *he that sent him*." John 13:16

~~"Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to *the one who sent me*." John 7:33

~~"My teaching is *not my own*. It comes from *the one who sent me*. (16)Anyone who chooses to do *His will* will find out whether my teaching comes *from God or whether I speak on my own*.(17)Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him *is a man of truth*; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18

~~"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: *every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God*" 1 John 4:1-2

~~"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now. Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he’ll guide you into all truth. He *won’t speak on his own accord*, but he’ll *speak whatever he hears* and will declare to you the things that are to come. *He will glorify me*" John 16:12-14

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~~"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" *Quran 61:6*

~~"Say(O Muhammad): *I have no power over any good or harm to myself* except as *Allah willeth*. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith." *Quran 7:188*

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!"
Say(O Muhammad): "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
Say(O Muhammad): "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way." *Quran 5:75-77*

"Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan." *Quran 2:253*


Story of Jesus from the Quran(at the bottom left i recommend you turn-on the audio) :
Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah." Quran 5:46
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, "A great prophet has arisen among us!" and, "God has visited His people!" Luke 7:16

~~"And they took offense at Him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household." Matthew 13:57

~~And the crowds were saying, "This is the prophet Jesus, from Nazareth in Galilee." Matthew 21:11


~~"For Jesus Himself testified that a prophet has no honor in his own country" John 4:44

~~ "And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:" Luke 24:19

~~"Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world." John 6:14

~~"On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.” Others said, “He is the Messiah.” John 7:40-41

~~"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." Luke 13:33

~~"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet." John 4:19

~~"Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone." Mark 10:18

~~"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? " Matthew 27:46

~~"I *can do nothing on My own initiative*. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but *the will of Him who sent Me.*" John 5:30

~~"Verily, verily I say unto you, the servant is not greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than *he that sent him*." John 13:16

~~"Jesus said, "I am with you for only a short time, and then I am going to *the one who sent me*." John 7:33

~~"My teaching is *not my own*. It comes from *the one who sent me*. (16)Anyone who chooses to do *His will* will find out whether my teaching comes *from God or whether I speak on my own*.(17)Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him *is a man of truth*; there is nothing false about him." John 7:16-18

~~"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: *every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God*" 1 John 4:1-2

~~"I still have a lot to say to you, but you cannot bear it now. Yet when the Spirit of Truth comes, he’ll guide you into all truth. He *won’t speak on his own accord*, but he’ll *speak whatever he hears* and will declare to you the things that are to come. *He will glorify me*" John 16:12-14

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~~"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" *Quran 61:6*

~~"Say(O Muhammad): *I have no power over any good or harm to myself* except as *Allah willeth*. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith." *Quran 7:188*

"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!"
Say(O Muhammad): "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah,- He it is that heareth and knoweth all things."
Say(O Muhammad): "O people of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by,- who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even way." *Quran 5:75-77*

"Those messengers We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (Signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (Signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan." *Quran 2:253*


Story of Jesus from the Quran(at the bottom left i recommend you turn-on the audio) :
Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer

Quran Explorer

Phrophet. Most definetely not God. You have to sum up those. They dont speak on their own.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Phrophet. Most definetely not God. You have to sum up those. They dont speak on their own.

Jesus separates Himself from the 'prophets', in the first sentence. Jesus was not, a Prophet. If one chooses to not adhere to Jesus, it is in the 'total', sense, because He is believed to be God, by adherents.
 
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DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Peace be on all.

There is none worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is His Messenger.

""
Jesus was not a physical son of God. The Bible refers to Jesus as the son of David:



"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham". (Matthew 1:1)

At another place, Jesus presented himself as the son of man:



"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head". (Matthew 8:20)

In the present day Bible, not only Jesus but also Jacob has been called the son of God. Jacob, moreover, has been referred to as "first born" son.



"And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my first born:" (Exodus 4:22)

Jesus was not a partner in the Godhead, as was not Jacob. Both of them were beloved prophets of God.""

Source:True Christianity and how it leads to Islam


Jesus (on whom be peace) and disciples said:
[3:52] ‘Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord; so worship Him: this is the right path.’
[3:53] And when Jesus perceived their disbelief, he said, ‘Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah?’ The disciples answered, ‘We are the helpers of Allah. We have believed in Allah. And bear thou witness that we are obedient.
Source: alislam.org/quran
 
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arthra

Baha'i
Baha'is accept both Jesus and Muhammad as divine Prophets...

The divine Prophets came to establish the unity of the Kingdom in human hearts. All of them proclaimed the glad tidings of the divine bestowals to the world of mankind. All brought the same message of divine love to the world.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 6
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Did Jesus ever prophesize anything?
Peace be on you.
Yes, indeed, among others, one is following and it fulfilled in his life:

"" Matthew (chapter 12, verse 40) says that just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so the Son of Man shall be three days and three nights in the bowels of the earth. Now it is clear that Jonah did not die in the belly of the fish; the utmost that happened was that he was in a swoon or a fit of fainting. The holy books of God bear witness that Jonah, by the grace of God, remained alive in the belly of the fish, and came out alive; and his people ultimately accepted him. If then Jesus (on whom be peace) had died in the belly of the 'fish', what resemblance could there be between a dead man and the one who was alive, and how could a living one be compared with one dead? The truth rather is, that as Jesus was a true prophet and as he knew that God, whose beloved he was, would save him from an accursed death, he made a prophecy in the form of a parable, revealed to him by God, in which he hinted that he would not die on the Cross, nor would he give up the ghost on the accursed wood; on the contrary, like the prophet Jonah, he would only pass through a state of swoon. In the parable he had also hinted that he would come out of the bowels of the earth and would then join the people and, like Jonah, would be honoured by them. So this prophecy too was fulfilled; for Jesus, coming out of the bowels of the earth, went to his tribes who lived in the eastern countries, Kashmir and Tibet, etc. viz. the ten tribes of the Israelites who 721 years1 before Jesus, had been taken prisoner from Samaria by Shalmaneser, King of Assur, and had been taken away by him. Ultimately, these tribes came to India and settled in various parts of that country. Jesus at all events must have made this journey; for the divine object underlying his advent was that he should meet the lost Jews who had settled in different parts of India; the reason being that these in fact were the lost sheep of Israel who had given up even their ancestral faith in these countries, and most of whom had adopted Buddhism, relapsing, gradually into idolatry.....""
Source:Jesus in India
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/library/books/jesus-in-india/ch1.html
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Jesus separates Himself from the 'prophets', in the first sentence. Jesus was not, a Prophet. If one chooses to not adhere to Jesus, it is in the 'total', sense, because He is believed to be God, by adherents.

I know He is not God. Doesnt make a diffference since it was His Father that sent Him. He is called the Highest Prophet. Cant remember if it was Paul or Peter (one of the Ps)who said it.

What's wrong with Him being a high prophet?

A prophet is "a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God"

He repeatedly proclaims His Father's message and His Father's Works. He is calles the Word becaus He was sent by His father to proclaim (speak the Word His Father gave) of His Father.

Everything is from the Father "through" Jesus.

He is also "sent" to be as a Savior.

It doesnt make a difference.

In scipture, the Father made a perfect person

In scripture, God blessed Jesus to proclaim His (being the Father's) Words throuh Jesus. Jesus is considered the Word (not God) because He "speaks For God" Not "as God. He it God's Word through Jesus.

Totally fine. It doesnt mess up His mission. It by puts down the Father and saying He cant create the Son of Man to do the works for Himself when in scripture, God can do anything. Total insult to God.

Jesus can still save the world.God made Him the Perfect Human.

Dont understand why some christians dont get it. Thats puting The Father down because He cant create a perfect Human (to represent Himself/be in the image of/) Himself so He can speak to His people Through Jesus.

Thats telling God He is a lier by How He chose to save the world by creating the Son of Man to mirror/be in the image of Himself (Sons are always in the image of their parents; they are Not their parents) His Father to save the world.

In scripture, the apostles refer to Him as the Highest prophet. Unlike the Levite priest, they say He is the Highest Priest.

Theae words mean more than just a person. Especially with the adjective of high-ist.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I know He is not God. Doesnt make a diffference since it was His Father that sent Him. He is called the Highest Prophet. Cant remember if it was Paul or Peter (one of the Ps)who said it.
So, we're going by the Bible, literally? That could be descriptive, or metaphor, or even just one aspect of who Jesu is.
What's wrong with Him being a high prophet?
Nothing, inherently. But the manner of the titles described of Him, His supposed nature, and various other things in the bible, these are not things usually associated with prophets. And, no, it's not normal, /or at least isn't traditionally normal, for Israelites to casually refer to each other as gods, deities, and so forth.
A prophet is "a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God"
Great. So everyone who does that is a prophet? All the Apostles would be prophets as well, then. ok
He repeatedly proclaims His Father's message and His Father's Works. He is calles the Word becaus He was sent by His father to proclaim (speak the Word His Father gave) of His Father.

Yep. Well, see, that's what I get for not reading the whole Bible.
Everything is from the Father "through" Jesus.
He is also "sent" to be as a Savior.
He also turned water into wine.
It doesnt make a difference.
Hmm.
In scipture, the Father made a perfect person
So, Mary isn't perfect?
In scripture, God blessed Jesus to proclaim His (being the Father's) Words throuh Jesus. Jesus is considered the Word (not God) because He "speaks For God" Not "as God. He it God's Word through Jesus.

Totally fine. It doesnt mess up His mission. It by puts down the Father and saying He cant create the Son of Man to do the works for Himself when in scripture, God can do anything. Total insult to God.

No, Jesu is God, tho. /in xianity/. So, God is doing the ''works''. You bring up a good point though, if Jesuah really is just the son of God, is that insulting the Father?
Jesus can still save the world.God made Him the Perfect Human.
Jesu doesn't save the sinners. Eh that's in Revelations, I believe.
Dont understand why some christians dont get it. Thats puting The Father down because He cant create a perfect Human (to represent Himself/be in the image of/) Himself so He can speak to His people Through Jesus.

Hmm ok.
Thats telling God He is a lier by How He chose to save the world by creating the Son of Man to mirror/be in the image of Himself (Sons are always in the image of their parents; they are Not their parents) His Father to save the world.
Why? Yes it might, in your theological version of things.
In scripture, the apostles refer to Him as the Highest prophet. Unlike the Levite priest, they say He is the Highest Priest.
ok
Theae words mean more than just a person. Especially with the adjective of high-ist.

That's great.
 
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leibowde84

Veteran Member
Jesus separates Himself from the 'prophets', in the first sentence. Jesus was not, a Prophet. If one chooses to not adhere to Jesus, it is in the 'total', sense, because He is believed to be God, by adherents.
What about those who adhere to his teachings, but believe him to be a prophet rather than divine? Are you saying that is an impossibility?
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
God has a strong point of hiding behind instead of showing up to every human. It is because humans will have to rely on faith to be saved. Human salvation drives the need for a hiding God. On the other hand, if God doesn't show up to any humans, then how will humans be able to know God at all. The only way which works for a hiding God to convey His messages to humans is to show Himself up to a small group of chosen humans as His direct witnesses, then to allow this small group of humans write about Him for other humans in majority to believe with faith (such that they can be saved). This process is called witnessing. It's the only way which works.

So it all boils down to what witnessing is!? The nature of witnessing is that humans rely heavily on it's validity to get to a truth. For an example, 99% humans don't and won't acquire the evidence that the black holes exist. The most efficient way for humans to get to know the truth that black holes exist is to put their faith in the scientists who act as the "middle man" (witnesses) for what they said the worked for. As for truths of type Historical in nature, humans will have to rely on witnessing completely. We can never get to know what George Washington was doing on the date Jan 01, 1740. No humans can get to know what George Washington was doing on that day unless another human (the witness) wrote it down in a document called history book.

That's what human witnessing is, We humans rely heavily on the validity of witnessing to get to a truth, without our own active awareness though. We humans don't know the nature of human witnessing and how it relates to a truth. But God knows. God employs it all the times without human awareness. Christianity (including ancient Judaism) is the only religion ties up human witnessing to the truths to be convey. The nature of the validity of witnessing (which only God may know how to employ) is through martyrdom. That is to say, no witnessing can be made more valid than those who martyred themselves for what is said and done. Today we have photos and videos supportive of our witnessing though.

In a nutshell, it boils down to whether salvation matters or not. If salvation doesn't matter, you can choose whatever religion you like, or no religion at all, live the rest of your life then everything is done.

If on the other hand salvation matters, only Christianity saves. Judaism won't save as there are only 20 mil. Jews among the 6 bil. humans on today's earth. If humans need to be saved through Judaism then only the 20 mil. Jews are saved on today's earth, with most of them don't even believe in such a salvation.

To put it another way, if salvation is required only Jesus Christ saves (but not Judaism), as only Christianity gives a sound solution for human salvation. If salvation is not required, you don't need Judaism either. Just randomly pick a religion or no religion, live your life span then all is done.

Another validity of witnessing unknown to humans is, valid witnessing relies on multiple account witnesses. Again, only Christianity embrace such a multiple account witnessing but not muslin.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I hate sarcasm. Drives me up the wall. Don't use it.

So, we're going by the Bible, literally? That could be descriptive, or metaphor, or even just one aspect of who Jesu is.

If you take everything metaphorically, you can make up meaning for just about every passage in the Bible. Sounds modern.

Nothing, inherently. But the manner of the titles described of Him, His supposed nature, and various other things in the bible, these are not things usually associated with prophets. And, no, it's not normal, /or at least isn't traditionally normal, for Israelites to casually refer to each other as gods, deities, and so forth.

That is why He is God not the Father. Big difference.

What's wrong with the word prophet?

Great. So everyone who does that is a prophet? All the Apostles would be prophets as well, then. ok

Gosh. Totally miss the whole point. Jesus is the HIGH prophet. Not any prophet. Notice in the Bible all prophets cannot do anything on their own. Each prophet did something as their God/Father told them to?

Jesus, according to Christianity, was, um, special. His Father did things through, Him. Everything God does is THROUGH people. Why is that hard to understand?

Yep. Well, see, that's what I get for not reading the whole Bible.

I hate assumptions. I have read the whole Bible. I am not a robot. I can't remember word for word.

He also turned water into wine.

From His Father not His own works. He said that in scripture. Unless you are seeing it metaphorical? Anyone can put any definition on Jesus' works if you want to define it metaphorical.

Probably why we have so many denominations.

So, Mary isn't perfect?

What does that have to do with anything?

If you believe Mary is perfect, I don't agree. That's not in scripture. That's Church teachings.

No, Jesu is God, tho. /in xianity/. So, God is doing the ''works''. You bring up a good point though, if Jesus really is just the son of God, is that insulting the Father?

Jesus is not the Father. He is perfect, according to scripture. He speaks the words of His Father not of Himself--that is IN scripture. He is an image of His Father not the Father Himself.

Can't twist the words to make Him the Father. God, yes. Father, no.

Jesu doesn't save the sinners. Eh that's in Revelations, I believe.

Salvation is when someone has

1. Accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior (Confirmation)
2. Born again by spirit and by water (Baptism)
3. Repented of their sins to Christ so the repentant is forgiven by the Father NOT by Jesus nor the priest
4. Takes communion with the Body of Christ. (Communion)

Salvation is a ongoing journey. Without Jesus, a Christian cannot continue on that journey LIVING that salvation hence Being saved because of it.

If you are a Christian, how do you follow Jesus if you don't believe He has not saved you from your sins so you can be united with the Father?

It's all about repentance and communion.

It's not metaphorical

Why? Yes it might, in your theological version of things.

Sarcasm again. No. I have experienced this. I don't need to be a book worm or a priest to know what it means to be In Christ.
--

I don't understand:

1. Why don't you understand the difference between someone being a god and someone being the Father.

Jesus is God because He is perfect and is a representation and image of His Father.

He does nothing on His own.

He does not speak on His own.

He has not sent Himself.

Why is this hard to understand?
Why does this make a difference in your belief to know that Jesus has a Father AND He is God because He is IN the Father and has a perfect union with His Father.

Taking the Father out of the picture is a completely insult to Christ.

2. It's not all metaphorical.

I know you see some things metaphorical and some things mystic.

I disagree. Reading the Bible I did not get everything as metaphorical. Reading the gospels were pretty literal. When Jesus used parables, He didn't use them for abstract teachings. He used them for literal teachings to hide what He said from the Pharisees.
--

Back on point

1. No. Not everyone can be a prophet. God chose specific people to proclaim His covenants, laws, and message.

2. No. Jesus is not the Father. He repeatedly says He speaks His Father's Words. He is the image of His Father. He prays to His Father. He is sent by His Father. Through Him not His Father a Christian dies to there sin; aka born again=salvation or being saved.

3. No. Jesus is not just any prophet. He is a high prophet. The prophet. The Lord. The God (though I haven't seen that used in the gospels). Whatever. I think that's in Acts. The apostles didn't belittle Him as many Christians do by making Him the Father. The apostles knew, full well, that they worshiped Christ to bet united with the Father.

I am using Father not God.

What is it you don't understand? (Not agree to, understand)

NO SARCASM.




 

Shad

Veteran Member
God has a strong point of hiding behind instead of showing up to every human. It is because humans will have to rely on faith to be saved. Human salvation drives the need for a hiding God. On the other hand, if God doesn't show up to any humans, then how will humans be able to know God at all. The only way which works for a hiding God to convey His messages to humans is to show Himself up to a small group of chosen humans as His direct witnesses, then to allow this small group of humans write about Him for other humans in majority to believe with faith (such that they can be saved). This process is called witnessing. It's the only way which works.

So it all boils down to what witnessing is!? The nature of witnessing is that humans rely heavily on it's validity to get to a truth. For an example, 99% humans don't and won't acquire the evidence that the black holes exist. The most efficient way for humans to get to know the truth that black holes exist is to put their faith in the scientists who act as the "middle man" (witnesses) for what they said the worked for. As for truths of type Historical in nature, humans will have to rely on witnessing completely. We can never get to know what George Washington was doing on the date Jan 01, 1740. No humans can get to know what George Washington was doing on that day unless another human (the witness) wrote it down in a document called history book.

That's what human witnessing is, We humans rely heavily on the validity of witnessing to get to a truth, without our own active awareness though. We humans don't know the nature of human witnessing and how it relates to a truth. But God knows. God employs it all the times without human awareness. Christianity (including ancient Judaism) is the only religion ties up human witnessing to the truths to be convey. The nature of the validity of witnessing (which only God may know how to employ) is through martyrdom. That is to say, no witnessing can be made more valid than those who martyred themselves for what is said and done. Today we have photos and videos supportive of our witnessing though.

In a nutshell, it boils down to whether salvation matters or not. If salvation doesn't matter, you can choose whatever religion you like, or no religion at all, live the rest of your life then everything is done.

If on the other hand salvation matters, only Christianity saves. Judaism won't save as there are only 20 mil. Jews among the 6 bil. humans on today's earth. If humans need to be saved through Judaism then only the 20 mil. Jews are saved on today's earth, with most of them don't even believe in such a salvation.

To put it another way, if salvation is required only Jesus Christ saves (but not Judaism), as only Christianity gives a sound solution for human salvation. If salvation is not required, you don't need Judaism either. Just randomly pick a religion or no religion, live your life span then all is done.

Another validity of witnessing unknown to humans is, valid witnessing relies on multiple account witnesses. Again, only Christianity embrace such a multiple account witnessing but not muslin.

You conflate trust in a methodology which has proven itself with faith. Faith has no such methodology nor has proven itself. Now that the fallacy of equivocation has been pointed out your argument has no merit.

I would point out that Islamic sources have vastly higher amount of witnesses than Christian. Witnesses number from hundreds to hundred of thousands from that start of prophethood to Muhammad's death. This of course is just an ad populum argument. However if you want to use just numbers of witnesses Christianity loses badly. If you stand by your arguments you should convert.
 
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